Thur 16th Feb: SL: Warrington Wolves v Leeds Rhinos KO 20:00 (Sky)

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, bobbruce said:

I don’t think it’s about fans successful teams need a core of local/ English players to set standards otherwise your imports just come in and go through the motions. I don’t think they necessarily need to come through the academy I also think long term players with the right attitude can also provide this. As we saw at Saints with Sculthorpe,Joynt,Long,Martyn and many others. Not through the academy but all leaders at various times. 

I think that's right, and tbh I don't think Wire have a bad makeup of a squad. They've moved plenty on over the last 12m so we probably have a fresher squad than normal, but I don't have any problem with how the squad has been put together. 

I think people often simplify the local-developed thing a fair bit. When Bradford battered Wigan at Old Trafford they had 4 club-developed players. 12m later when Saints beat the Bulls in a classic they won with 5/6 club-developed players. Of course there have been years where they've been far better on this front, but in reality, the vast majority of players in Grand Final winning sides have been bought in. 

The likes of Saints were winning Grand Finals back then with teams made of of the likes of Paul Sculthorpe, Sean Long, Martin Gleeson, Paul Newlove, Chris Joynt - some of these are seen as Saints' legends - but they were just bought from other clubs. 

 

[ELBOWSEYE]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

That was said on the commentary by Scully re him possibly being Walmsley Mk 2.

I know Harry just thought it was worth a post. 

[ELBOWSEYE]

2 hours ago, Just Browny said:

I'm not sure where I'm looking because I agree I think.

Don’t worry the last couple of days I have been arguing with myself and I still don't know which one of me is right. 

[Derwent]

20 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think that's right, and tbh I don't think Wire have a bad makeup of a squad. They've moved plenty on over the last 12m so we probably have a fresher squad than normal, but I don't have any problem with how the squad has been put together. 

I think people often simplify the local-developed thing a fair bit. When Bradford battered Wigan at Old Trafford they had 4 club-developed players. 12m later when Saints beat the Bulls in a classic they won with 5/6 club-developed players. Of course there have been years where they've been far better on this front, but in reality, the vast majority of players in Grand Final winning sides have been bought in. 

The likes of Saints were winning Grand Finals back then with teams made of of the likes of Paul Sculthorpe, Sean Long, Martin Gleeson, Paul Newlove, Chris Joynt - some of these are seen as Saints' legends - but they were just bought from other clubs. 

 

This is true but the salary cap benefits of having a decent quota of club trained players are obvious. Just as a made up example, Saints could be receiving the maximum £100k dispensation for the number of club trained in their squad. On top of that they could theoretically have say Makinson and Lomax as marquee players with a cap value of just £75k each. So in effect after dispensations those 2 may only be taking up £50k of cap space. Which leaves more available to bring in those bought in players.

[Jughead]

12 minutes ago, Derwent said:

This is true but the salary cap benefits of having a decent quota of club trained players are obvious. Just as a made up example, Saints could be receiving the maximum £100k dispensation for the number of club trained in their squad. On top of that they could theoretically have say Makinson and Lomax as marquee players with a cap value of just £75k each. So in effect after dispensations those 2 may only be taking up £50k of cap space. Which leaves more available to bring in those bought in players.

Allegedly, Saints don’t have any players on marquee status. 

[ELBOWSEYE]

2 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Allegedly, Saints don’t have any players on marquee status. 

They will do well to keep Welsby out of that category in the future. 

[Just Browny]

2 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

They will do well to keep Welsby out of that category in the future. 

He spent that world cup semi in the merchandise marquee outside the ground.

[Chrispmartha]

52 minutes ago, Tippytoe said:

It irks me that Leeds have recently let home grown/local players leave that are currently better than what we have. 

Levi Edwards?

Hes not even played a SL game has he?

Anyway, Leeds will always lose young players to other clubs and some of them will kick on some won’t.

[Dave T]

23 minutes ago, Derwent said:

This is true but the salary cap benefits of having a decent quota of club trained players are obvious. Just as a made up example, Saints could be receiving the maximum £100k dispensation for the number of club trained in their squad. On top of that they could theoretically have say Makinson and Lomax as marquee players with a cap value of just £75k each. So in effect after dispensations those 2 may only be taking up £50k of cap space. Which leaves more available to bring in those bought in players.

Of course, and that's a slightly different argument. And we've had the discussion over the last few years that the current rules are loaded to these top teams who currently have the conveyor belt of top British talent. So not only do you get the rewards of the best British talent, you are doubly rewarded as you then have additional free cap space to bring in best overseas talent. 

I understand the reasons behind the rules, but I think they are off balance at the moment. And there is a clear reason why nobody else has been able to genuinely break the stranglehold of Saints, Wigan and Leeds. And the answer isn't because they try harder than others. 

[Madrileño]

4 hours ago, Davo5 said:

They looked pretty fit to me & the likes of Vaughan played big minutes.

Poor body shape,stop talking rubbish.

I think you are the one talking rubbish. 

[Barry Badrinath]

i wish i was as out of shape as them two

 

jesus

[Madrileño]

4 hours ago, dkw said:

You think he actually watches games?

Probably a lot more than you do. Especially counting highlight footage etc. 

[Jughead]

23 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

They will do well to keep Welsby out of that category in the future. 

I hope he and Dodd and marquee players in the future, though I think we may lose at least one to Australia. 

[Madrileño]

8 minutes ago, Barry Badrinath said:

i wish i was as out of shape as them two

 

jesus

You aren't an elite level athlete. This is across the squad as well. They look to be carrying higher bodyfat than other years. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Madrileño

[ELBOWSEYE]

12 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

I think you are the one talking rubbish. 

I am wondering if you have a problem , I use put page 3 models on my wall till the wife ripped them off. 

[V02]

53 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

You aren't an elite level athlete. This is across the squad as well. They look to be carrying higher bodyfat than other years. 

Not necessarily a bad thing. Leanest isn't always best.

[Tippytoe]

1 hour ago, Chrispmartha said:

Levi Edwards?

Hes not even played a SL game has he?

Anyway, Leeds will always lose young players to other clubs and some of them will kick on some won’t.

No I agree Edwards hasn't had a chance but I was thinking Ormandroyd,Harrison,Cory Hall.

[Chrispmartha]

16 minutes ago, Tippytoe said:

No I agree Edwards hasn't had a chance but I was thinking Ormandroyd,Harrison,Cory Hall.

We could do with Corey hall at the moment but he left a couple of years ago as he couldn't get in the side, he always looked too lightweight to me at the time. He had Newman, Hurrell, Sutcliffe x2 all above him in the pecking order hence why he only played 4 games.

I don't think were missing Ormandroyd that much but he's gone on to be a steady player, Harrison? the one that is playing for Wire? he was only with us as a short term loan from featherstone and played 4 games, its a bit of a huge stretch to say he was a Rhinos youth product especially as he was 23/24 when he played four games for us, he's a product of the  Bradford Academy I think.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Chrispmartha

[meast]

5 hours ago, Barry Badrinath said:

austin was austin doing austin things.

 

Sezer just went awol, again.

 

He's been awful since his first season at the giants.

He had 2, maybe 3 decent games at the Giants, he came with a big reputation and a big contract (by Huddersfield's standards) and sulked his way through a year and a bit and wasn't prepared to get his head down, work hard and be a part of Ian Watson's work.

He then jumped ship to Leeds claiming he would be a different player and would help a winning team or something like that.

Probably the best bit of business Watto has done in shutting Sezer out of the team and then moving him on to be replaced by a guy who Leeds fans didn't take to.

 

 

[meast]

1 hour ago, Tippytoe said:

No I agree Edwards hasn't had a chance but I was thinking Ormandroyd,Harrison,Cory Hall.

Owen Trout is looking like he could be a top class forward in the next few years.

Saying that, Kruise has done alright at Leeds so not totally sure if we got the better out of it.

[Chrispmartha]

19 minutes ago, meast said:

He had 2, maybe 3 decent games at the Giants, he came with a big reputation and a big contract (by Huddersfield's standards) and sulked his way through a year and a bit and wasn't prepared to get his head down, work hard and be a part of Ian Watson's work.

He then jumped ship to Leeds claiming he would be a different player and would help a winning team or something like that.

Probably the best bit of business Watto has done in shutting Sezer out of the team and then moving him on to be replaced by a guy who Leeds fans didn't take to.

 

 

Tui?

Leeds fans didn’t take to him because he was dreadful for us, however that wasn’t his fault that lies with Furner who made him play a role he wasn’t suited to.

[daz39]

4 hours ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Bradford? The other 3 yes. 

Deacon, Pryce x 2 Bridge, Langley, Peacock, Fielden, Parker, McDermott, Sykes, Reardon, Ferres, Cook, Burgess, Kopczak

[ELBOWSEYE]

1 minute ago, daz39 said:

Deacon, Pryce x 2 Bridge, Langley, Peacock, Fielden, Parker, McDermott, Sykes, Reardon, Ferres, Cook, Burgess, Kopczak

You will have to enlighten me how many played in the GF winning sides and came through the junior system. If wrong I will hold my hands up. 

[Chrispmartha]

3 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

You will have to enlighten me how many played in the GF winning sides and came through the junior system. If wrong I will hold my hands up. 

I think there was quite a few in the 2005 squad

[daz39]

5 hours ago, The storm said:

As a body language expert, i can confirm that rohan smith has lost the plot

We warned Leeds fans about Sezer being a player for himself and not a team one, hence why most Giants fan were more than happy to see him leave, we have been proved right time and again, he only turns up when he wants,

Absolute waste of 2 clubs finances in his time over here.