IMG Grading Unveiled

[Just Browny]

10 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

So in Warrington's case the extent of their catchment area is curtailed by Saints, Widnes, Wigan/Leigh and possibly Salford.

Are you aware that the Warrington boundary is only a few hundred yards from the Leigh Sporting Village, that being the case how do you see the catchment areas will be apportioned, up to the boundaries of the respective areas, or halfway between the club's grounds in which ever direction it is?

There are too many clubs in a small area and if Warrington can't show they have a wider catchment area than their town they shouldnt get the points. Fortunately Warrington is a large town so that helps a bit, but they will have to show that they can attract fans from areas south of the town in places like Northwich and even Chester and Crewe. There used to be Crewe Wolves and Chester Wolves teams but think they have fallen by the wayside.

Leigh have an established Super League team in pretty much every direction, maybe they can corner Bolton.

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, redjonn said:

Taking account of your 2nd paragraph:

Then surely If location is important and by extension concentration of clubs in a relatively narrow geographical area then grading points should also be deducted based on existing concentration of clubs in that narrow area, e,g. as I've commented before for and just as an example those like Saints, Warrington, Widnes and maybe Salford all being so close.

Got there before me, but you leave out Leigh/Wigan from Warrington's contemporaries for space 

[redjonn]

26 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Got there before me, but you leave out Leigh/Wigan from Warrington's contemporaries for space 

chuckle

[Harry Stottle]

Just a thought, I didn't know IMG from Adam when they first got mentioned and I wondered who they were, but they got many accolades on these pages as being the organisation that dragged basketball from also rans in the sporting world up into the 21st Century.

Now on the subject of the catchment areas I wonder if this is from the same IMG template that they used for the European Basketball League, that's right "European" which is somewhat bigger than the area's covering 3 club's in Wakefield or 4 club's on the other side of the Pennines that you can cover with a big blanket or 3 club's bordering Manchester, we could go on.

Does anyone know?

[redjonn]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Just a thought, I didn't know IMG from Adam when they first got mentioned and I wondered who they were, but they got many accolades on these pages as being the organisation that dragged basketball from also rans in the sporting world up into the 21st Century.

Now on the subject of the catchment areas I wonder if this is from the same IMG template that they used for the European Basketball League, that's right "European" which is somewhat bigger than the area's covering 3 club's in Wakefield or 4 club's on the other side of the Pennines that you can cover with a big blanket or 3 club's bordering Manchester, we could go on.

Does anyone know?

On your 2nd paragraph, its possible they have used their experience from other sports such as European Basketball League.

The key to me is knowing clearly what the Strategic intent is.  I'm guessing at the moment its purely about sustaining or strengthening RL as it is now. Then broadening its outlook. Maybe though they are looking ahead to a day when it is a European elite league.

Anyway until we see more detail we can enjoy our speculation and questioning. Particularly as I am sure all of us on here want to see RL prosper here or elsewhere and are happy to hear others views and opinions which may or maybe not turn out to be better than our own thoughts.

[The 4 of Us]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/mar/13/imgs-rugby-league-revamp-delivers-hope-of-promised-land-for-city-clubs?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

“With teams such as York and Newcastle making no secret of their desire to get into Super League, there is a belief traditional town-based top-flight sides such as Wakefield are more at threat than ever before, with facilities also coming under IMG’s microscope.”

[yipyee]

12 hours ago, RP London said:

ah.... i'll summarise the salient point here then.. 

While P&R does exist technically, it would appear on first reading of the document, so it needs to be confirmed/wording tightened if we are wrong, that p&r will be done year on year by just moving the ones with the highest B grade up where as we all though (or at least most of us) that P&R between the B grades would be base on the field of play only once the initial repositioning of the league had happened.

so its not a closed shop but the P&R is different and not what was expected.

If we took a look at previous years would Leigh have gone up last year on paper and toulouse the year before ?

The last licensing was every 3 years this talks about an annual review with no limit on top level teams.

Maybe not R but certainly P every year.

I think most would agree if say Leeds were relegated it would damage the sport.

Bradford going certainly damaged the sport in terms of player production and crowds.

Infact Bradford bulls was a household name

[Oxford]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

One wonders?

IMG are going to be recompensed based on a percentage of the profits that the game accrues from their guidance and direction, downsizing and economising can increase their payout, no!

The thing is you can look like a conspiracy nut for being simply a bit questioning and not just accepting what's said.

I do find it really sad when people not only accept things but even say things like it's just business. It's never just business.

I don't think that their involvement is a bad thing expecially when it come to negotiating and growing the market spread but I do suspect some of the things.

[yipyee]

9 minutes ago, redjonn said:

On your 2nd paragraph, its possible they have used their experience from other sports such as European Basketball League.

The key to me is knowing clearly what the Strategic intent is.  I'm guessing at the moment its purely about sustaining or strengthening RL as it is now. Then broadening its outlook. Maybe though they are looking ahead to a day when it is a European elite league.

Anyway until we see more detail we can enjoy our speculation and questioning. Particularly as I am sure all of us on here want to see RL prosper here or elsewhere and are happy to hear others views and opinions which may or maybe not turn out to be better than our own thoughts.

I am sure Toulouse will be in as soon as the grading is released hence why they are moaning about travel costs this year.

Fev will be an interesting one but I would like to see them have a season in the top flight im place of cas and wakey.

 

[redjonn]

2 minutes ago, yipyee said:

I am sure Toulouse will be in as soon as the grading is released hence why they are moaning about travel costs this year.

Fev will be an interesting one but I would like to see them have a season in the top flight im place of cas and wakey.

 

That last paragraph may well take us off on a not totally unrelated tangent... 

[Oxford]

2 minutes ago, yipyee said:

I am sure Toulouse will be in as soon as the grading is released hence why they are moaning about travel costs this year.

I don't think this is true yipyee and I'm not sure the two things are connected in any way.

[yipyee]

46 minutes ago, Oxford said:

I don't think this is true yipyee and I'm not sure the two things are connected in any way.

On the face of it no but there were a few strange decisions made by clubs at the end of last season.

Another was Newcastle reversing the fully pro status.. did they know they could get promoted without on field success??

[yipyee]

50 minutes ago, redjonn said:

That last paragraph may well take us off on a not totally unrelated tangent... 

Just a thought that IMG might decide to only have one club in that area, I won't mention the M word..  

[Big Picture]

7 hours ago, RP London said:

Just thinking a little out of the box here. As with all things its not 100% clear as yet how it is being measured as there is a bigger document outlining this but could you look to build in areas outside of your town/city and use the fact that you appeal to fans in xyz area to your advantage. 

Someone like Green Bay in the US for example is tiny (comparatively) but they appeal to a large set of people outside of Green Bay and across the states. There is no way the NFL would look to move them on etc. Clubs could aim to be an equivalent potentially. 

Could that then open up location points to them...

Green Bay is an excellent illustration of the difference between the NFL and British RL.

The Packers survived and succeeded where all the other NFL franchises based in places of similar and even slightly bigger size disappeared, in no small part by making themselves Wisconsin's team rather than just Green Bay's team.  One of the ways they did that was by playing two home matches every season in Milwaukee, a practice they started in 1936 in the depth of the Great Depression and continued for almost 60 years, until 1994.

Winning the first two Super Bowls because those came along when the Packers happened to be the best team in the original NFL (they won three NFL titles in a row twice in the decade before the NFL-AFL merger in 1970) helped a lot too.  That made them famous nationally and no doubt helped them sell a lot of their licensed merchandise far beyond the 1,600 square kilometres of Brown County.

Unfortunately that sort of thing isn't possible for their equivalents in British RL which are hemmed in by competing clubs within the same county and often even the same metropolitan (i.e. local authority) area.  And even if it was possible, how would the supporters react to taking two or three home matches every season to a bigger city in the same county to broaden a club's appeal?  I think we all know the answer to that!!!!!!!!!

Edited March 13, 2023 by Big Picture

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, yipyee said:

On the face of it no but there were a few strange decisions made by clubs at the end of last season.

Another was Newcastle reversing the fully pro status.. did they know they could get promoted without on field success??

No, in a tight niche sport such as ours we can't keep secrets that long, how many players that were on Newcastle's books that are now playing their trade elsewhere would have known what was going on, and you reckon they could have all kept their gobs shut?

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

19 hours ago, JM2010 said:

Isn’t a Grade A licence 15/20? That’s 75% and is achievable without the location score.

You then have to effectively score 83%.

Anyone dismissing 10% as insignificant is numerically illiterate.

[MattSantos]

15 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

You then have to effectively score 83%.

Anyone dismissing 10% as insignificant is numerically illiterate.

Applauds.

 

[Oxford]

12 hours ago, yipyee said:

Another was Newcastle reversing the fully pro status.. did they know they could get promoted without on field success??

I don't think so, it's far more likely they were saving money now in the hope things would change in the long term.

The Total article  about Gary Hetherington's response to the proposals is interesting and telling.

NT will only be promoted if it makes economic sense for the whole sport, hence the criteria, and unless like the poorest kind of magic show it's all smoke, mirrors and just behind the curtain, and nothin like certain.

The contrast between the champioship chairmen who have spoken up is quite marked and revealing too.

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Oxford

[RP London]

36 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

You then have to effectively score 83%.

Anyone dismissing 10% as insignificant is numerically illiterate.

Equally it isn't 10% or 0% there will be a gradation between those from best to worst on the equation that they are using.

Frankly if you are scoring 0% on the location then you are heavily hemmed in by other clubs and if you havent already broken out of that (therefore earning big points elsewhere) then you probably ought to be looking at yourself anyway wondering how on earth you are going to grow.. thats not the grading system's fault that is just the way it is. You're going to have to think very much outside the box to grow and if you were to do that there are going to be points all over the place that you pick up from that very different and radical thinking. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by RP London

[gingerjon]

I'm not sure it's actually possible for anyone to score 100%.

So it really is all about delivering on the bits you controI to minimise those you don't.

[DI Keith Fowler]

41 minutes ago, RP London said:

Equally it isn't 10% or 0% there will be a gradation between those from best to worst on the equation that they are using.

Frankly if you are scoring 0% on the location then you are heavily hemmed in by other clubs and if you havent already broken out of that (therefore earning big points elsewhere) then you probably ought to be looking at yourself anyway wondering how on earth you are going to grow.. thats not the grading system's fault that is just the way it is. You're going to have to think very much outside the box to grow and if you were to do that there are going to be points all over the place that you pick up from that very different and radical thinking. 

To get 0% you need to be on an oil platform that straddles the City of Wakefield. 

[Oxford]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

I'm not sure it's actually possible for anyone to score 100%.

Which is one of the reasons I said originally that the top at the start of the process should be a B, and with no guarantees of anything if we really want a professional game  " ... to compete at the high echelons of professional sport....."

And to be honest I would like to know what the hell a phrase like that means.

[Oxford]

Just now, DI Keith Fowler said:

To get 0% you need to be on an oil platform that straddles the City of Wakefield. 

Unless enough local clients engage with it, turn up to watch it and buy oil rigger kits and other merch!

[RP London]

5 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

To get 0% you need to be on an oil platform that straddles the City of Wakefield. 

so which of the 3 is that?

to be fair if you are on an oil platform the money should be good (as long as its drilling!)

[Liverpool Rover]

On 13/03/2023 at 11:22, NW10LDN said:

There are other points to be made elsewhere. It's not as bad as Keighley are making out and I'm not seeing them put an alternative plan forward to grow the sport. Anyway, it is unprofessional to handle this through Twitter with that hashtag. Not a good look for the sport and wouldn't be tolerated elsewhere.

They don't have an alternative plan, so far it has been "we want promotion and relegation waaah!"