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Barrow v Whitehaven


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8 hours ago, Eddie said:

Why is Whitehaven fans getting spannered and kicking off Barrow’s fault? 

Their job to steward and police their ground? Their job to deny entry to anyone under the influence? Their job to ensure no drunks served drinks and no drugs anywhere?

That sort of thing?

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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30 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Their job to steward and police their ground? Their job to deny entry to anyone under the influence? Their job to ensure no drunks served drinks and no drugs anywhere?

That sort of thing?

The people at fault are the morons kicking off imho. Do you want them to alcohol test and strip search everyone entering a championship rugby league game?   I haven’t heard anyone say Hull FC are at fault for idiot KR fans throwing glasses from the top tier. 

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8 hours ago, Eddie said:

Why is Whitehaven fans getting spannered and kicking off Barrow’s fault? 

Agreed, if you watch the footage the so called Whitehaven fans are stood to the back of the terrace. 1 clown in a white hat charges down at around 10 Barrow fans falls over and receives a few digs then runs back and hides. Then the all the rest pile down. Never seen any trouble at Barrow and this is the 2nd season we have had issues with that clubs fans visiting CP. Town have brought the same number of fans with no issues

 

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2 hours ago, Eddie said:

The people at fault are the morons kicking off imho. Do you want them to alcohol test and strip search everyone entering a championship rugby league game?   I haven’t heard anyone say Hull FC are at fault for idiot KR fans throwing glasses from the top tier. 

There’s a management company at Hull’s ground to pass the buck to. That may be the difference.

As well as individual responsibility, venues tend to have responsibilities for what happens within them.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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3 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Their job to steward and police their ground? Their job to deny entry to anyone under the influence? Their job to ensure no drunks served drinks and no drugs anywhere?

That sort of thing?

Up until the Haven game we have had no reason to segregate away fans, the stewarding has always been sufficient to deal with any issues, and I never seen a police presence at the ground for as long as I care to remember, a lot of the staff employed by the club on match days are volunteers so it is too much to ask them to refuse entry to anybody under the influence of drink or drugs.

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12 minutes ago, richie keay said:

Up until the Haven game we have had no reason to segregate away fans, the stewarding has always been sufficient to deal with any issues, and I never seen a police presence at the ground for as long as I care to remember, a lot of the staff employed by the club on match days are volunteers so it is too much to ask them to refuse entry to anybody under the influence of drink or drugs.

The amount of grown men sharing a toilet cubicle was worrying causing long queues, George Michael would have  even blushed at the haven fans behaviour.

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45 minutes ago, richie keay said:

Up until the Haven game we have had no reason to segregate away fans, the stewarding has always been sufficient to deal with any issues, and I never seen a police presence at the ground for as long as I care to remember, a lot of the staff employed by the club on match days are volunteers so it is too much to ask them to refuse entry to anybody under the influence of drink or drugs.

If they're volunteers then they aren't employed by the club, so which is it? Are they employed or not? If they're just volunteers they won't have any power to do anything such as eject anyone. I notice barrow are asking to interview anyone who was involved in the violence, who's going to do that? And what power do the club have to interview? Also asking for names and contact details of those identified.... GDPR breach waiting to happen so I'd hope Barrow are considering re-editing that statement of they could be in more bother.

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57 minutes ago, richie keay said:

Up until the Haven game we have had no reason to segregate away fans, the stewarding has always been sufficient to deal with any issues, and I never seen a police presence at the ground for as long as I care to remember, a lot of the staff employed by the club on match days are volunteers so it is too much to ask them to refuse entry to anybody under the influence of drink or drugs.

If there's been no trouble before and none could have been predicted then they will almost certainly be fine in terms of segregation and usual crowd managements.

Stewards - who I know are usually volunteers or minimum wage temps - are there for safety reasons though and whilst I can understand them not wanting to get involved that is why they are there. It's all fine until something goes wrong.

Hopefully whatever needs sorting gets sorted.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Stewards - who I know are usually volunteers or minimum wage temps - are there for safety reasons though and whilst I can understand them not wanting to get involved that is why they are there. I

See I`m not sure they are, they are there for safety but does that definitely include manhandling fighting fans?

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3 minutes ago, dkw said:

See I`m not sure they are, they are there for safety but does that definitely include manhandling fighting fans?

There will be things they are expected to do even though they are volunteers. Obviously, it may be as basic as, "If you see trouble, let your supervisor know and he'll call the police".

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Just now, gingerjon said:

There will be things they are expected to do even though they are volunteers. Obviously, it may be as basic as, "If you see trouble, let your supervisor know and he'll call the police".

Yeah thats how I see it, no way are those volunteers expected to wade in and start dragging coked up morons out. 

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6 minutes ago, dkw said:

See I`m not sure they are, they are there for safety but does that definitely include manhandling fighting fans?

Definitely not. I stewarded a few Sheffield Utd games when I was a student and while that was 25 years ago we weren’t expected to wade in if it kicked off, and in fact weren’t permitted to even if we wanted to. 

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2 minutes ago, dkw said:

See I`m not sure they are, they are there for safety but does that definitely include manhandling fighting fans?

As part of the management of a crowd, the planning should be in place such that if trouble does arise, it can in the first instance be dealt with by the stewarding in place (assuming that the planning doesn't involve the Police already). 

If the stewarding in place isn't sufficient to manage the crowd, even if only just by presence of numbers, then get the police involved. That can have its own consequences down the line of course.

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57 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

As part of the management of a crowd, the planning should be in place such that if trouble does arise, it can in the first instance be dealt with by the stewarding in place (assuming that the planning doesn't involve the Police already). 

If the stewarding in place isn't sufficient to manage the crowd, even if only just by presence of numbers, then get the police involved. That can have its own consequences down the line of course.

Also the ground safety certificate or licence will likely be in the name of an individual and it is their responsibility to ensure that all matches are correctly managed via stewarding or police cover. Also, if there have been issues in the past, as per comments on this thread, then the match should have been subject to higher levels of stewarding and control etc.

None of the above excuses any bad behaviour by fans from either side or even neutral ones and hopefully all the idiots involved will be identified. 

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6 minutes ago, LeeF said:

Also the ground safety certificate or licence will likely be in the name of an individual and it is their responsibility to ensure that all matches are correctly managed via stewarding or police cover. Also, if there have been issues in the past, as per comments on this thread, then the match should have been subject to higher levels of stewarding and control etc.

None of the above excuses any bad behaviour by fans from either side or even neutral ones and hopefully all the idiots involved will be identified. 

Exactly right.

People are allowed, to an extent, to be idiots. Its up to venues, and the police if necessary, to separate the idiots from eachother and if necessary everyone else, to prevent any escalation.

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1 hour ago, Wigan Riversider said:

Went to Barrow FC playing Stockport County 2 months back. Atmosphere hostile.

Friends in Barrow area stated that it's been alarming that hostility seems to be in the air at Barrow RLFC in a couple of recent fixtures.

Seen footage of Hull kr chucking bottles over Easter.

Unpleasant.

Been going to craven park for over 30 years now (barrow) only time the atmosphere has been dodgey is the last two years when the young coked up chavs from haven come. 

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10 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Would you blame this on the American invasion of the town ?

Not really Paul Jones was actually British anyway. The real cause of the people of Whitehaven being very angry people is their obsession with eating Jam for every meal  - all that sugar energy has to be released somewhere. Just a shame its at the Rugby.

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