World Cup Bidding

[Eddie]

12 hours ago, welshmagpie said:

From a Welsh perspective this is sickening.

There are around 2,300 registered juniors in Wales this year - what on Earth are we giving them to aspire to if Wales aren’t at least factored into a qualification process?

There’s huge merits and benefits to an 8 team tournament, I do appreciate that but from a selfish stance it screams of NRL insularity. 

Agreed, if it has to be 8 there needs to be a qualification process. Giving some Australians with Lebanese ancestry a place while not allowing France or Wales to even play for one would be insular beyond belief. 

[Jughead]

21 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Agreed, if it has to be 8 there needs to be a qualification process. Giving some Australians with Lebanese ancestry a place while not allowing France or Wales to even play for one would be insular beyond belief. 

What does the ancestry of the Lebanese team have to do with anything? 

[Henson Park Old Firm]

Why can't  they have 12 nations 4 pools top 2 qualify for knock-out 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

They could but it would likely need support from the bigger nations and International RL.

And if they're doing the actual World Cup as cheaply as possible ...

No doubt.

But considering where the majority of those nations are based, would a second tier international tournament based on Europe cost that much?

The main thing would be to make it actually meaningful (like a p&r system between the 2). But this would require a consistent international calendar, which won't happen, making such a tournament effectively just a friendly.

[Eddie]

36 minutes ago, Jughead said:

What does the ancestry of the Lebanese team have to do with anything? 

Do you really need me to explain the difference between a team comprised of people from the country they’re representing and one made up of people from another country? 

[gingerjon]

25 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

No doubt.

But considering where the majority of those nations are based, would a second tier international tournament based on Europe cost that much?

The main thing would be to make it actually meaningful (like a p&r system between the 2). But this would require a consistent international calendar, which won't happen, making such a tournament effectively just a friendly.

Accommodation and travel for eight teams and support staff, venue hire, provision of gym/training, insurance, officials, broadcast, marketing, match fees?

How much does that get to? (Genuinely, I don’t know)

[Sports Prophet]

I don’t think 8 teams is ideal but understand why 16 may be a bridge too far. 

I have spoken ad-nauseam about a proposed 20 team WC which comprises of a 16 team KO before a two qualifiers join the four semi finalists of last WC for round robin.

If a reduced format to 8 teams in two groups is a necessity, there isn’t any real reason why it shouldn’t expand ever so slightly to an extra week with a 12 team format where the top ranked 8 teams from outside the previous semi finalists play each other in a straight KO weekend qualifier to offer 4 winners to join the 4 semi finalists of the last WC for an 8 team list.

[Jughead]

49 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Do you really need me to explain the difference between a team comprised of people from the country they’re representing and one made up of people from another country? 

I find highly odd that you picked on the Lebanese yet Wales, also mentioned in your post, were not mentioned despite having players in the 22 WC side born in famous Welsh towns such as Wollongong, Widnes, St Helens and Hamilton, New Zealand. 

[Eddie]

4 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I find highly odd that you picked on the Lebanese yet Wales, also mentioned in your post, were not mentioned despite having players in the 22 WC side born in famous Welsh towns such as Wollongong, Widnes, St Helens and Hamilton, New Zealand. 

They also had a number of players born and bred in Wales. How many of the Lebanese squad were from Lebanon? 

[Jughead]

2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

They also had a number of players born and bred in Wales. How many of the Lebanese squad were from Lebanon? 

Semantics. The Eddie Way. 

[Toby Chopra]

2 hours ago, faithfulbyname said:

Do we actually know the figures for 2022WC. How much money did it lose?

The recent RFL accounts suggest it just about broke even. But that included the government grant.

Virtually no major sporting event happens these days without some sort of government support, so if the NSW/Q'land/NZ govts aren't willing to provide support for a 2025 RL world cup then it's inevitably going to be a stripped down one. 

Which is depressing, but I'd still rather it happens than nothing at all.

[Jughead]

The more I think about it, the more I would probably support an eight if it meant the women’s and wheelchair tournaments were saved. As a standalone, I’m less convinced but I could probably get behind it if there was a genuine plan to expand. 

The idea of a second right team competition running beneath the proposed one may sound like it’s interesting and giving the other nations a like-for-like competition with games against relative nations but financially and public interest levels, I’m not sure it’s remotely viable. We got okay crowds for games between the smaller nations last year but I’m not sure in a Not The Real World Cup Cup that there would be the same interest levels in this country, let alone on the other side of the equator. Would Wales v Cook Islands pull 6,000+, Lebanon v Jamaica pull 5,000+ etc? I’m not so sure they would. 

There were some questions about Scotland, Ireland, Italy and it may have also been Greece (I feel like they were also mentioned but I cannot be sure) regarding the legitimacy of the places in the 2022 tournament given the rulings about domestic clubs and leagues, so why are we beating the drum for their inclusion in the proper tournament when they have little to no infrastructure in many cases (though I know the Greeks are getting the building blocks in place now)?

[Jparrish]

10 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

The recent RFL accounts suggest it just about broke even. But that included the government grant.

Virtually no major sporting event happens these days without some sort of government support, so if the NSW/Q'land/NZ govts aren't willing to provide support for a 2025 RL world cup then it's inevitably going to be a stripped down one. 

Which is depressing, but I'd still rather it happens than nothing at all.

Understand its difficult for sports events to go ahead without government funding. But if that means we have to see a stripped down WC is it crazy to suggest France should of just gone ahead and hosted a 8 team mens comp ?

And a big argument against NZ hosting is people don't believe games between smaller nations will sell a lot. So if we have to see an 8 team format surely New Zealand should host it ??

I'd honestly rather see no world cup than a 8 team one in Australia and I live here. What disappointing news

[Sports Prophet]

5 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

The recent RFL accounts suggest it just about broke even. But that included the government grant.

Virtually no major sporting event happens these days without some sort of government support, so if the NSW/Q'land/NZ govts aren't willing to provide support for a 2025 RL world cup then it's inevitably going to be a stripped down one. 

Which is depressing, but I'd still rather it happens than nothing at all.

It’s a very good point. Regular NRL haters have already jumped all over them on this thread for not supporting a 16 team tournament, which at such short notice has so little opportunity and assurance of government investment. Look how much trouble the NRL is having, getting government backing for stadia investment.

It’s just another example of forum know it all’s, damning the most financially responsible and successful RL organisation for a decision based on likelihood for success and responsible finances.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Sports Prophet

[HawkMan]

37 minutes ago, Eddie said:

They also had a number of players born and bred in Wales. How many of the Lebanese squad were from Lebanon? 

Exactly,  having these total heritage teams is an embarrassment, some heritage players added to a smattering of genuine born and bred is fine, and having the game actually known in the country is helpful too.

Did you know that Australia has three permanent bases in Antarctica,  Mawson,  Casey and Davis, presumably staffed by Aussies,  more knowledge of RL than Lebanon.  Why can't they form a team,  playing in all white of course,  representing Antarctica. 

You know it makes sense .

 

[Veridical]

19 hours ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

I don't know about others here, I can only speak for myself, but I get annoyed because it gives our sport such an amateurish image. No other sport chops and changes the format of its premium international tournament as much as we do.

Cricket has changed the format of its 50-over World Cup for 7 of the last 8 events. Basically the same as us since 2000, albeit the CWC format is staying the same for this year’s competition whereas we look set for another change.

[Damien]

There was a thread recently on test status and I remember saying there has to be far more focus on domestic activity and the amount of players and teams. This absolutely should be the case if there is to be any shrinkage from a 16 team World Cup. It certainly doesn't sit well that France or Wales may miss out, countries that have a decent domestic base and professional and semi-professional teams and many players that were born in those countries, for a team full of heritage players and little domestic activity. The game needs to still offer some incentive to countries to develop rather than simply being able to avail from having a large heritage player pool such as Lebanon, or Ireland and Scotland for that matter.

[Eddie]

50 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Semantics. The Eddie Way. 

Typical response from you Oliver, don’t have anything left to say so resort to cheap jibes. Have a nice day

[Jughead]

3 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Typical response from you Oliver, don’t have anything left to say so resort to cheap jibes. Have a nice day

And right on queue, the same old. Pot and kettle Edward, pot and kettle. 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

17 hours ago, sam4731 said:

Started the thread hating the idea of an 8 team WC, ended it, almost convinced

I was half half but I am now convinced it makes sense 

It was the comment it would be a NRL rep game that got me and I started imagining it taking off like origin!

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

15 hours ago, welshmagpie said:

From a Welsh perspective this is sickening.

There are around 2,300 registered juniors in Wales this year - what on Earth are we giving them to aspire to if Wales aren’t at least factored into a qualification process?

There’s huge merits and benefits to an 8 team tournament, I do appreciate that but from a selfish stance it screams of NRL insularity. 

If they are good enough they play for England 

Doesn't seem to bother cricketers 

[Jughead]

7 minutes ago, Damien said:

There was a thread recently on test status and I remember saying there has to be far more focus on domestic activity and the amount of players and teams. This absolutely should be the case if there is to be any shrinkage from a 16 team World Cup. It certainly doesn't sit well that France or Wales may miss out, countries that have a decent domestic base and professional and semi-professional teams and many players that were born in those countries, for a team full of heritage players and little domestic activity. The game needs to still offer some incentive to countries to develop rather than simply being able to avail from having a large heritage player pool such as Lebanon, or Ireland and Scotland for that matter.

It would be less of a bitter pill to take if there was a plan with a reduction, such as this and would be more palatable and easier to get behind if it was incentivised, though I suppose it brings into question the Tongans and Samoans, as I have never really heard about much domestically there. 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

21 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

Exactly,  having these total heritage teams is an embarrassment, some heritage players added to a smattering of genuine born and bred is fine, and having the game actually known in the country is helpful too.

Did you know that Australia has three permanent bases in Antarctica,  Mawson,  Casey and Davis, presumably staffed by Aussies,  more knowledge of RL than Lebanon.  Why can't they form a team,  playing in all white of course,  representing Antarctica. 

You know it makes sense .

 

That would genuinely be awesome if Antarctica had a team ....now that would be expansion !!

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Jughead said:

It would be less of a bitter pill to take if there was a plan with a reduction, such as this and would be more palatable and easier to get behind if it was incentivised, though I suppose it brings into question the Tongans and Samoans, as I have never really heard about much domestically there. 

Tonga is fine, I've read about plenty of domestic activity, teams and players there. Same with Fiji. I think there is a clear distinction between countries that use heritage players, but have bona fide domestic teams and players and just have heritage players that are better, and the likes of Lebanon, Ireland and Scotland.

Samoa is a bit more sketchy and details more hard to come by. They do have a domestic competition (I can see at least eight team is their 2022 playoffs) and I'd be amazed if there wasn't some sort of decent base (certainly compared to Lebanon, Ireland and Scotland).  

[Mr Frisky]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

Tonga is fine, I've read about plenty of domestic activity, teams and players there. Same with Fiji. I think there is a clear distinction between countries that use heritage players, but have bona fide domestic teams and players and just have heritage players that are better, and the likes of Lebanon, Ireland and Scotland.

Samoa is a bit more sketchy and details more hard to come by. They do have a domestic competition (I can see at least eight team is their 2022 playoffs) and I'd be amazed if there wasn't some sort of decent base (certainly compared to Lebanon, Ireland and Scotland).  

Doesn't Ireland have a series of club Leagues? - Scotlands had club teams for years.