Saints lose Walmsley and Paasi for the rest of the season.

[meast]

34 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

The tackle on Paasi looks very similar to a chop block style tackle which is outlawed in American Football. Its obviously not intentional but to me it is reckless as he just throws him self at the lower limbs of the opponent with no intention to wrap his arms at least not till he is on the floor. That sort of tackle especially the one near the try line is a very fine line between been courageous with no regard for your own body to try and save a try and been what could possibly be an illegal tackle.

More or less how I saw it.

Dangerous and reckless, but not illegal.

I think it's being debated because it's so unusual to see that kind of "tackle".

[bigbaldnmad]

Just for clarity, I thought LMS has a quad injury, not a knee injury?

 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

4 hours ago, The 4 of Us said:

The tackle on Paasi is at 3.50mins on this BBC highlights real I think. Is it anything other than a very good last gasp tackle. Can’t see how anything in that comes close to premeditated intent to injure. 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-league/66279140

How anyone can even think of suggesting outlawing a leg tackle like that is beyond me 

It was a fabulous and brave last minute try saver ...no intent 

[bigbaldnmad]

4 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

It was a fabulous and brave last minute try saver ...no intent

This....

I see 2 arms wrapped around 1 leg.

[Exiled Wiganer]

What are Saints’ fans view on the tackle that did for Cooper?

[The Masked Poster]

I'm honestly and genuinely struggling to see what the outrage is about.

It's obviously unfortunate that any player gets injured but I don't see where it can be shown that he performed a reckless act with the intention of hurting somebody. It just looked like a tackle in a RL game that if nobody had been injured, we'd never have heard about it. That's genuinely how I see it. 

[LeytherRob]

1 hour ago, bigbaldnmad said:

Just for clarity, I thought LMS has a quad injury, not a knee injury?

 

This is what Wellens had to say immediately after the match:

“Louie came off and he has got a bit of a quad issue, which again we’ll get investigate.

“As you can imagine in a game like that when it’s really attritional players always come out with bumps, bruises and scrapes and things like that.

“Other than Agnatius and Louie, I don’t think there’s anything really significant there although Morgan Knowles and Alex Walmsley both had the knee strapped up in the game as well, so who knows what the next 24-48 hours might throw up.”

 

 

[LeytherRob]

48 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

What are Saints’ fans view on the tackle that did for Cooper?

 

Or this one from Paasi himself that avoided a ban in the WCC?

[The 4 of Us]

2 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

ethos.

ethos

/ˈiːθɒs/

 

noun

1. the characteristic spirit of a culture, era, or community as manifested in its attitudes and aspirations.
    

    

   Good luck drafting a rule for that. 

[StandOffHalf]

I think I'll be dubbing this type of tackle the KNEE-CLEAR MISSILE.

Hope it goes the way of the chicken wing tackle!

[sweaty craiq]

52 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

I think I'll be dubbing this type of tackle the KNEE-CLEAR MISSILE.

Hope it goes the way of the chicken wing tackle!

Why when it clearly hits thigh, suppose above pre fixed sorts it

[Leigh-On-Kiwi]

5 hours ago, hullste said:

As Wellens states in his interview all four suffered injuries as a result of reckless and dangerous contact/tackles. Duty of care still applies and particularly in the Paasi example, in his desperation Asiata had no control leaving both himself and Paasi extremely vulnerable.

Yeah he should of just let him score. He had to lunge into the tackle and attacked his legs whilst the attacker was running at speed... I'm not sure what you want him to do?

[georgeb1]

I thought the try saving tackle on passi was brave , unfortunate but fair , we must remember RL is a tough contact sport and this should never change , yes i feel for passi missing the rest of the season but its time saints left it alone now

[Jughead]

8 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

What are Saints’ fans view on the tackle that did for Cooper?

I’m not sure how it’s relevant. I don’t see how you can’t discuss something without “well…well…well…what about that time that Saints player got a ban?” as if that’s some sort of defence. If that was the case, we can’t ever ban anyone for making a tackle because they might be tackling someone that also at some point was once banned for making a bad tackle and it makes the whole thing a bit redundant.

As for Cooper’s, it was a hip drop and he got banned for it. His disciplinary record and Cooper’s diagnosis meant he got five games. 

7 hours ago, LeytherRob said:

 

Or this one from Paasi himself that avoided a ban in the WCC?

Again, let’s disband the disciplinary, eh? What do you mean, no? But hey, at least it’s not that quote that you’ve stopped peddling. 

Yeah, but what about that time Vila Matautia got banned in 1997, eh?!! 

[Exiled Wiganer]

11 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I’m not sure how it’s relevant. I don’t see how you can’t discuss something without “well…well…well…what about that time that Saints player got a ban?” as if that’s some sort of defence. If that was the case, we can’t ever ban anyone for making a tackle because they might be tackling someone that also at some point was once banned for making a bad tackle and it makes the whole thing a bit redundant.

As for Cooper’s, it was a hip drop and he got banned for it. His disciplinary record and Cooper’s diagnosis meant he got five games. 

Again, let’s disband the disciplinary, eh? What do you mean, no? But hey, at least it’s not that quote that you’ve stopped peddling. 

Yeah, but what about that time Vila Matautia got banned in 1997, eh?!! 

I asked a simple enough question. It was relevant in terms of the reaction to losing a player for a long time (and possibly ending their career), though this time because of an illegal tackle. It seems to me that it is directly on point. 

I actually think that the disciplinary committee is one of the best things about our game’s administration. I was also encouraged by the reaction of the RFL to say that they will take this very seriously. 

Hopefully Walmsley will be fit for the internationals, and Saints will allow him to play if he is. 

[Jughead]

11 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I asked a simple enough question. It was relevant in terms of the reaction to losing a player for a long time (and possibly ending their career), though this time because of an illegal tackle. It seems to me that it is directly on point. 

I actually think that the disciplinary committee is one of the best things about our game’s administration. I was also encouraged by the reaction of the RFL to say that they will take this very seriously. 

Hopefully Walmsley will be fit for the internationals, and Saints will allow him to play if he is. 

You have my deepest sympathies if you see nothing wrong with the repeated tackling technique of John Asiata. 

I think the lack of seriousness shown by The RFL has essentially rendered the rest of the year “open season” where players are free to crack whoever they want. I also think the “we can’t change things mid season” is factually incorrect, having seen them change things during two of the last three completed seasons.

It wasn’t really relevant but it’s just a defence mechanism used by people who don’t like Saints. Much like the Wellens quote that doesn’t really say anything about bans or not wanting a player banned.

Hopefully Walmsley is sat on a sun lounger come the off season and well away from England.

[Harry Stottle]

14 hours ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

I accept it's legal and I'm definitely not a Saints fan, but I can see wellens point but he also needs to look at his own players technique especially Knowles. I ultimately believe it will be outlawed just like, cannonball, chicken wing,shoulder charge,drop tackle etc.

It won't be long before the allowable tackle area is between the nipple and the crotch, if leg tackling becomes an 'iffy' area coaches will want players to keep away they won't want to give penalties or lose player's of the pitch.

We will then be able to return to 2010 and 2011 to watch every team adopt the 'Madge' McGuire wrestling technique, good init.

 

[The Blues Ox]

I think the main issue from this photo is that your knee is not made to bend in that direction, the player does not wrap his arms until after contact and you can see from the position of the tackle that he basically throws his body at Paasi to create an obstacle. There is no intent to injure in my mind at all and Im sure the Leigh player is devastated but again I do thinks its reckless and players as a whole should be warned about this type of tackle where by they are tackling around the knee area, I mean its not anywhere near what they are coached to tackle like but in a game occasionally you will see tackles like this.

[Harry Stottle]

13 hours ago, DEANO said:

I guess wellens will be in bother for bringing the game into disrepute 

Hopefully

[Jughead]

6 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

I think the main issue from this photo is that your knee is not made to bend in that direction, the player does not wrap his arms until after contact and you can see from the position of the tackle that he basically throws his body at Paasi to create an obstacle. There is no intent to injure in my mind at all and Im sure the Leigh player is devastated but again I do thinks its reckless and players as a whole should be warned about this type of tackle where by they are tackling around the knee area, I mean its not anywhere near what they are coached to tackle like but in a game occasionally you will see tackles like this.

Get out of here with your common sense. Don’t ya know Paul Wellens was once penalised in a game.

[sweaty craiq]

11 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

I think the main issue from this photo is that your knee is not made to bend in that direction, the player does not wrap his arms until after contact and you can see from the position of the tackle that he basically throws his body at Paasi to create an obstacle. There is no intent to injure in my mind at all and Im sure the Leigh player is devastated but again I do thinks its reckless and players as a whole should be warned about this type of tackle where by they are tackling around the knee area, I mean its not anywhere near what they are coached to tackle like but in a game occasionally you will see tackles like this.

and when you look at when the impact was made do you feel its wrong

 

[ELBOWSEYE]

12 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

It won't be long before the allowable tackle area is between the nipple and the crotch, if leg tackling becomes an 'iffy' area coaches will want players to keep away they won't want to give penalties or lose player's of the pitch.

We will then be able to return to 2010 and 2011 to watch every team adopt the 'Madge' McGuire wrestling technique, good init.

 

No it's not,but as I wrote before his technique is very unusual in today's game, in the past most players tackled low first, that stopped because they all now want to hit high , control (slow down)the ptb, and hit the ball carrying area. I don't believe this will start (as Wellens says) a mass change to Asiatas technique because it's hard to get right, dangerous to the tackler if he misstimes it and it doesn't control the ptb

 

[David Dockhouse Host]

I've seen a photo of a Saints player tackling low which I cannot upload here.

Shows how difficult it would be to police as that tackle didn't lead to an injury and hasn't been mentioned.

You would have to penalise all tackles like this injury or not

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, hullste said:

Interesting that Wellens said that concerns had been raised about his tackle technique earlier in the season but the RFL chose to do nothing to address the concerns. I do wonder if they will be forced to address it now before more serious injuries are sustained???

Quote link please.

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, gingerjon said:

So leading with the shoulder can't be reckless?

How was you taught to tackle Jon?

It was drive in with the shoulder and wrap the arms around the legs, it is physically impossible to do it any other way.