Curious about a rule

[sam4731]

Is a player allowed to hand the ball to another player as opposed to passing to them? If they are, you never see players attempting to offload by simply handing it to another player, theoretically minimising the risk.

[Odsal Outlaw]

Yes they are allowed to I believe.

[Billy King's Boots]

As long as they hand it backwards, It's fine.

[bobbruce]

32 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

Is a player allowed to hand the ball to another player as opposed to passing to them? If they are, you never see players attempting to offload by simply handing it to another player, theoretically minimising the risk.

Yes you are allowed to but as well as minimising the risk it would probably minimise the benefits. As I think it would be likely you would just get tackle by the  same player. 

[Damien]

21 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Yes you are allowed to but as well as minimising the risk it would probably minimise the benefits. As I think it would be likely you would just get tackle by the  same player. 

And the player doing the handing back is likely to get a very painful big hit in the back as he does it too. He would be an incredibly easy target.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

22 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Yes you are allowed to but as well as minimising the risk it would probably minimise the benefits. As I think it would be likely you would just get tackle by the  same player. 

Yeah I would reckon it would take any momentum out of the play because the receiver of the ball would be playing from a complete standing start and so, like you say, it would be very easy to tackle the new ball carrier. 

[sam4731]

1 minute ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

Yeah I would reckon it would take any momentum out of the play because the receiver of the ball would be playing from a complete standing start and so, like you say, it would be very easy to tackle the new ball carrier. 

Would be interesting to see if it would be possible to use an 'offload sneak' to draw a tackle off the ball.

[DavidM]

A bit like pass the parcel

[The Hallucinating Goose]

1 hour ago, sam4731 said:

Would be interesting to see if it would be possible to use an 'offload sneak' to draw a tackle off the ball.

I feel like the whole process would just take too long if you wanted to really conceal the offload because you'd have to have two players basically touching and maybe even facing each other to be able to pass the ball between them without the move being spotted and as I say, both players will have to be completely stood still which makes them very vulnerable to a tackle.

You can't just have two players playing out such a long and precise procedure in the middle of the field with every other player watching them and get away with it. The process would have to be completed in a literal second, any longer than that and it's obvious what is happening and so a defender would not be drawn into an off the ball tackle.

The reason offloads are carried out how they are is because you are trying to get rid of the ball quickly and give the player who is running onto the offload a lot of momentum going into the defensive line. None of this is there with the kind of offload we're talking about here. 

[Sports Prophet]

The only way I see a hand off working is ala Quarterback to Running Back. If a half, 5/8 or dummy half is running across the pitch, an outstretched arm holding the ball presents itself as an opportunity for a full back or centre or big edge forward to switch lines and take the hand off. 

It similarly would keep defenders guessing that tiny bit longer as to whether the ball will be off loaded or not.

With that in mind, I guess it may be best implemented by a sideways running dummy half, close to the line with options both back inside and out.

[The Blues Ox]

Geoff Robinson showing what would happen....

 

[Bostik Bailey]

Remember the penalty Plays in the 80’s when four players would line up then break in different directions 

[The Hallucinating Goose]

3 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

Geoff Robinson showing what would happen....

 

Yeah so that's basically what I said would happen. Both players stopped still and facing each other, giving the defender plenty of time to put in a tackle. Okay in this instance it was more like GBH but the point stands! 

[Curly perm]

You see offload hand backs in tackles a lot in games with very young kids but I thought it just naturally stopped as defenders got better/faster at tackling, defending as a team, wrapping the ball etc with age. 

My lad’s side at under 7s, 8s would sometimes just rip the ball from their own teammates in tackles and tear off with it…something didn’t feel right about it but maybe there’s a legit play somewhere in that! 

Some drop off plays at all ages/levels are basically hand backs like you see from quarterbacks to running backs in the nfl. 

[north yorks trinity]

It could work in a maul situation. The ball could be smuggled to the second attacker who can then peel away and take the defence by surprise. . I feel sure I've seen it done but can't give a specific example. Yes I know the referee should call held when a maul forms (i.e. a second player from the side in possession joins the tackle) so in theory we shouldn't have mauls, but in practice the call often doesn't come in quickly enough to the prevent the ball carrier being driven well back or even out of play. 

[N2022]

It was coached in union, player trying to stay up in contact if immediate support from two teammates who would protect / seal off by each wrapping an arm across him. If he was holding ball close rather than with arms stretched out and maul looked like going stationary a teammate could lean in and rip it free. Clearly league rules quite different, though.

[fighting irish]

4 hours ago, north yorks trinity said:

It could work in a maul situation. The ball could be smuggled to the second attacker who can then peel away and take the defence by surprise. . I feel sure I've seen it done but can't give a specific example. Yes I know the referee should call held when a maul forms (i.e. a second player from the side in possession joins the tackle) so in theory we shouldn't have mauls, but in practice the call often doesn't come in quickly enough to the prevent the ball carrier being driven well back or even out of play. 

Not wishing to move the discussion off at a tangent but i've always been surprised how much this ''rule'' (is it still a rule?) is ignored in the modern game. We often see two or three defenders bundling, or dragging the ball carrier into touch but when a second attacking player joins the ''maul'' to stop the ball carrier being pushed into touch, the referees tend not to call held and just allow the ball carrier to be dragged, while the (usually outnumbered) attacking players struggle to stop it happening. The resulting ''maul'' is too reminiscent of RaRa for me and ought to be nipped in the bud. I'm glad you brought this up because it's been annoying me for some time.

[John Rhino]

5 hours ago, north yorks trinity said:

It could work in a maul situation. The ball could be smuggled to the second attacker who can then peel away and take the defence by surprise. . I feel sure I've seen it done but can't give a specific example. Yes I know the referee should call held when a maul forms (i.e. a second player from the side in possession joins the tackle) so in theory we shouldn't have mauls, but in practice the call often doesn't come in quickly enough to the prevent the ball carrier being driven well back or even out of play. 

I'm not an expert on the dark side but doesn't a maul begin when players bind? 

Binding is expressly forbidden in our game so it's usually individuals pushing. You occasionally see an arm binding but in decades of watching I've never seen a penalty given for it 

[The Blues Ox]

35 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

Not wishing to move the discussion off at a tangent but i've always been surprised how much this ''rule'' (is it still a rule?) is ignored in the modern game. We often see two or three defenders bundling, or dragging the ball carrier into touch but when a second attacking player joins the ''maul'' to stop the ball carrier being pushed into touch, the referees tend not to call held and just allow the ball carrier to be dragged, while the (usually outnumbered) attacking players struggle to stop it happening. The resulting ''maul'' is too reminiscent of RaRa for me and ought to be nipped in the bud. I'm glad you brought this up because it's been annoying me for some time.

Another rule that I believe to be in the rule books but does not seem to be applied consistantly. 

[graveyard johnny]

20 hours ago, DavidM said:

A bit like pass the parcel

or in Warrington's case - pin the tail on the donkey