League 1 unsustainable?

[crashmon]

I loved the 8's (as a Broncos supporter), but I can see why others hated them

[yipyee]

Well if Toronto wasn't forced out and the Manchester team not refused entry things would be looking a whole lot better. 

Even NW crusaders could have been helped by SL and we would still have south Wales.

These clubs would have gravitated higher and the middling clubs who could support PT would make a superb league 1.

Now we have the same problem we always have and its because of the anti expansionists

[Derwent Parker]

7 hours ago, Griff said:

RFL don't make these decisions as some sort of dictatorship.

The clubs decide for themselves.

not allowed to say what i think of that answer or i will get banned again

[Derwent Parker]

36 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Going back to the 8,s IMHO it was great London Broncos (If they finished in the top 4) got to play matches v SL sides it was as good as being in SL.

SL 12 teams 

Championship 12 teams 

League 1 12 teams 

Easy and would keep everyone happy 

 

 

but remember as a L1 team  we dont matter

[Griff]

12 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

not allowed to say what i think of that answer or i will get banned again

Why don't you ask your friendly local club chairman why his club aren't playing more games?

Instead of making up conspiracy theories.

[Derwent Parker]

9 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

Some of the blame obviously has to go to those who run the RFL day to day, but the RFL is essentially a members club - Each of the League 1 clubs is a full member of the RFL and if the RFL CEO didn't come to a meeting with a plan for League 1, then the clubs should have come up with their own suggestion for 2024 early this year at put it to all the other members.

If we on an internet forum can see the issues and (as you suggest) those managing the governing body don't care, why aren't the clubs (who are most impacted) acting - or at least making some noise about it?

I may be being unfair - perhaps the clubs have tried and their suggestions have been knocked back. There just seems to lethargy about the situation from everyone.

Yes But remember some RFL members Ie SL get 2 votes to every 1 Vote of all the rest??

[Griff]

1 minute ago, Derwent Parker said:

Yes But remember some RFL members Ie SL get 2 votes to every 1 Vote of all the rest??

I should see a doctor about that paranoia if I were you.

Why would Superleague clubs care whether League 1 clubs played 18, 20, 106 or any other number of games?

[The Lad]

League 1 is an afterthought, if proposals come up as to the restructuring of rugby or it's future it's never thought of or considered. League 1 is sadly probably going to be cut 5 years from now, I only worry for the clubs affected.       

[EssexRL]

I was reading about the decline in the number of people who are Methodists and how that church (like others) is responding - which is essentially to shut chapels down and retreat to the few areas (normally large urban centres) where they still have a viable congregation. The trouble is once you exit an area, the chance of anyone being interested in you is zero. You also lose the chance to be part of local communities and you certainly don't stop the decline in believers which will eventually hit the chapels that are still open. As it happens the local Methodist chapel in the part of London I live in has just closed.

This reminded me of RL. If we don't exist outside in a handful of areas then how will the sport survive? Who will take notice of it. Skolars may not get great crowds (250 at the moment) but we have a presence in the community (for example the youth teams and connections with local businesses). There is a foothold that could be built on, as there was in Oxford or Gloucester etc,. L1 is a foothold RL needs. Rather than cutting it, the RFL should be investing in it. 

[EggFace]

On 30/08/2023 at 12:21, Derwent Parker said:

As said earlier

The RFL do not care about anything below SL.

I dont even think they care enough to give L1 loop fixtures.

Its a disgrace, the RFL should look after the whole package Not just the chosen few.

There is plenty of forward planning/strategic thinking but only for SL

A bit like the RFU doesn't care about the Championship and only the shrinking Premiership.

[JM2010]

The only way League 1 can work is if they have money invested in the clubs. Unfortunately the amount of money in RL from TV in particular is decreasing. 
Is there a strategy for the lower leagues and the community game?

[ATLANTISMAN]

18 hours ago, Derwent Parker said:

but remember as a L1 team  we dont matter

You do to some of us

Edited August 31, 2023 by ATLANTISMAN

[ATLANTISMAN]

25 minutes ago, EssexRL said:

I was reading about the decline in the number of people who are Methodists and how that church (like others) is responding - which is essentially to shut chapels down and retreat to the few areas (normally large urban centres) where they still have a viable congregation. The trouble is once you exit an area, the chance of anyone being interested in you is zero. You also lose the chance to be part of local communities and you certainly don't stop the decline in believers which will eventually hit the chapels that are still open. As it happens the local Methodist chapel in the part of London I live in has just closed.

This reminded me of RL. If we don't exist outside in a handful of areas then how will the sport survive? Who will take notice of it. Skolars may not get great crowds (250 at the moment) but we have a presence in the community (for example the youth teams and connections with local businesses). There is a foothold that could be built on, as there was in Oxford or Gloucester etc,. L1 is a foothold RL needs. Rather than cutting it, the RFL should be investing in it. 

Charles Wesley would have been a fantastic brand ambassador for us:)

Paul (Lapsed Methodist) 

 

[The Future is League]

IF the Skolars do fold i would hope that perhaps a team might step in to fill the void, but who that team would be and where they would come from i have no idea. I just hope IF a new team comes into League 1 i hope they won't be expected to pay the expenses of visiting teams.

The folly of not letting Manchester Rangers come into League 1 could well come back to haunt the game

[Archie Gordon]

3 hours ago, EssexRL said:

...

This reminded me of RL. If we don't exist outside in a handful of areas then how will the sport survive? Who will take notice of it. Skolars may not get great crowds (250 at the moment) but we have a presence in the community (for example the youth teams and connections with local businesses). There is a foothold that could be built on, as there was in Oxford or Gloucester etc,. L1 is a foothold RL needs. Rather than cutting it, the RFL should be investing in it. 

I agree.

But I don't think the RFL know what the purpose of L1 is any longer (assuming they once did). It's now seen as a bit of a headache rather than an opportunity.

[EssexRL]

19 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

IF the Skolars do fold i would hope that perhaps a team might step in to fill the void, but who that team would be and where they would come from i have no idea. I just hope IF a new team comes into League 1 i hope they won't be expected to pay the expenses of visiting teams.

The folly of not letting Manchester Rangers come into League 1 could well come back to haunt the game

If Skolars do fold or go back to amateur status after nearly 25 years of trying to build the game down here it  won’t be a sign of the failure of the club but of the sport. 

[EssexRL]

14 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

I agree.

But I don't think the RFL know what the purpose of L1 is any longer (assuming they once did). It's now seen as a bit of a headache rather than an opportunity.

I’m sure you are right but that shows the lack of any long term strategy. 

[EssexRL]

11 hours ago, The Future is League said:

IF the Skolars do fold i would hope that perhaps a team might step in to fill the void, but who that team would be and where they would come from i have no idea. I just hope IF a new team comes into League 1 i hope they won't be expected to pay the expenses of visiting teams.

The folly of not letting Manchester Rangers come into League 1 could well come back to haunt the game

A number of individuals have invested a lot of their money into the club over that years because they love and believe in the game. They’ve tried really hard to get new money in and have come close a couple of times. I honestly can’t see who would do that down here from scratch - particularly without a base, ground wise.  

Edited September 1, 2023 by EssexRL

[Derwent Parker]

43 minutes ago, EssexRL said:

I’m sure you are right but that shows the lack of any long term strategy. 

no long term strategy out side of super greed

[Derwent Parker]

1 hour ago, Archie Gordon said:

I agree.

But I don't think the RFL know what the purpose of L1 is any longer (assuming they once did). It's now seen as a bit of a headache rather than an opportunity.

only purpose for L1 is somewhere fore SL to send all the youngsters that they hoover up with promise of being in SL

[Man of Kent]

10 hours ago, The Future is League said:

The folly of not letting Manchester Rangers come into League 1 could well come back to haunt the game

[gingerjon]

11 hours ago, Archie Gordon said:

I agree.

But I don't think the RFL know what the purpose of L1 is any longer (assuming they once did). It's now seen as a bit of a headache rather than an opportunity.

The only time there was a proper purpose to what is now League 1 is when, for a brief window, there was Super League, then National League One, Two and Three - Three being where the clubs like St Albans, Underbank, Hemel and Tees played - and the idea that never came to fruition was that NCL and other amateur sides, including RL Conference sides stepping up would join to create, Four, Five (regional as required). The model was, I think, similar to the Welsh RU structure that existed at the time (no idea if still does).

When that failed, you had the chucking in of Oxford, Hemel and Gloucester - which was the sign that there was now no strategy, and no real support to enable any of the clubs caught up in it to develop sustainably beyond surviving one season to the next.

And, yes, it has now become a problem - and possibly a problem without a solution.

[Ivarr the Boneless]

There was a bit of strategy left when Oxford etc joined. The third tier was first seem as development, somewhere teams could try to develop an RL infrastructure and pass the odd talent up the line. The likes of Oxford had zero interest in Superleague, they knew that was never viable.

The the powers reduced Tier two and dumped the unwanted clubs in Tier three. At that point Tier three ceased to have any real purpose. It wasn't a true pro league and it wasn't a development league. There still doesn't seem to be any strategy or vision.

When they folded, Oxfords owners privately stated they thought the third tier would be cut adrift within five years. They will be wrong on the exact timespan but I fear they won't be too far out.

[iffleyox]

22 minutes ago, Ivarr the Boneless said:

There was a bit of strategy left when Oxford etc joined. The third tier was first seem as development, somewhere teams could try to develop an RL infrastructure and pass the odd talent up the line. The likes of Oxford had zero interest in Superleague, they knew that was never viable.

The the powers reduced Tier two and dumped the unwanted clubs in Tier three. At that point Tier three ceased to have any real purpose. It wasn't a true pro league and it wasn't a development league. There still doesn't seem to be any strategy or vision.

When they folded, Oxfords owners privately stated they thought the third tier would be cut adrift within five years. They will be wrong on the exact timespan but I fear they won't be too far out.

Exactly - L1 the year Oxford, GAG, Stags etc joined was the last gasp of strategy, before the whole thing was overcome by an outbreak of tactics...

[Bearman]

5 hours ago, gingerjon said:

The only time there was a proper purpose to what is now League 1 is when, for a brief window, there was Super League, then National League One, Two and Three - Three being where the clubs like St Albans, Underbank, Hemel and Tees played - and the idea that never came to fruition was that NCL and other amateur sides, including RL Conference sides stepping up would join to create, Four, Five (regional as required). The model was, I think, similar to the Welsh RU structure that existed at the time (no idea if still does).

When that failed, you had the chucking in of Oxford, Hemel and Gloucester - which was the sign that there was now no strategy, and no real support to enable any of the clubs caught up in it to develop sustainably beyond surviving one season to the next.

And, yes, it has now become a problem - and possibly a problem without a solution.

 

1 hour ago, iffleyox said:

Exactly - L1 the year Oxford, GAG, Stags etc joined was the last gasp of strategy, before the whole thing was overcome by an outbreak of tactics...

Coventry had actually won the old League 3 (2004) and was competing in the NCL when the new League 1 was formulated. Yet their application to join the new League was rejected in favour of Oxford who had no pedigree!

When they were admitted into the league they had to sign a £100,000 bond. Hemel had signed the bond but neither Oxford or GAG did not have to sign. Had they signed they would have had to pay the bond in full.

The £100,000 bond was the main reason that stopped Manchester from applying