Fri 8th Sept: SL: St Helens v Leigh Leopards KO 20:00 (Sky)

[meast]

13 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Someday Meast and I know you have in the main been the refs champion, will realise that games and futures are dependent on the man in the middle and how good his officiating is.

It does nothing whatsoever to say to people "have a go yourself if you think you can do better",  this is the chosen profession of the guys we see on TV and SL games,  and their performance just like player's/coaches will always be under scrutiny, mistakes get highlighted just as good officiating does, do you expect the media to ignore game changing decisions, they won't nor should you expect fans of clubs after seeing 'highlighted' errors to say 'oh well, that's life'

I'm not getting into a debate about it because there's no point, some people just have it in for refs and can't or wont be swayed., plus it's a matchday thread.

But there is far less scrutiny and highlights on what the players and coaches do and too much on the officials, it should be the other way round.

99.9% of games are decided by players actions but that doesn't fit the ref bashing narrative.

[FearTheVee]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Fully expect that Percival will pick up a ban for the head tackle on Amone, it could even be construed as premeditated the way he broke the line by about 2 meters, and it will have nothing to do with Mr Cullen on the panel, bit what I could not understand was the words of the ref, "I know the tackle was high but the free kick is for offside" can someone please explain that to me.

The penalty was for offside, it wasn’t even a high tackle despite Leigh reactions, which Percy rightly laughed at.

Edited September 9, 2023 by FearTheVee

[FearTheVee]

8 hours ago, Just Browny said:

Has anybody said that incidentally? I'm amazed by how many times people come on and offer no comment on the game, but just to whinge that others haven't expressed the opinions they wanted to read.

I thought Saints won by the finest of margins, probably the width of Joe Mellor's fingernail. They can thank the Heavens for the longevity of Roby, because Dodd and Welsby failed to provide any creativity whatsoever despite the weight of possession and territory.

I did comment on the game. I said it was a great tough game and congratulated Leigh and saints in delivering it up.

Then I read the thread through and realised it wasn’t actually a great game after all, it was actually a stitch up where saints were gifted everything. Again.

Edited September 9, 2023 by FearTheVee

[daz39]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Fully expect that Percival will pick up a ban for the head tackle on Amone, it could even be construed as premeditated the way he broke the line by about 2 meters, and it will have nothing to do with Mr Cullen on the panel, bit what I could not understand was the words of the ref, "I know the tackle was high but the free kick is for offside" can someone please explain that to me.

The penalty was for offside as he was offside first, he hit the man after he was offside, Ref's cannot give 2 penalites at once, either way Leigh got a penalty.

[LeeF]

2 hours ago, sam4731 said:

No one is in any doubt that referees make mistakes, maybe some more than others but the toxic culture of believing that some referees are corrupt or have a certain narrative they try to play out is off-putting. Also the idea that the authorities have a preference for who they want to win comps is ludicrous, even more when people say that they want Saints/Wigan/Leeds to do well, as if dominance is good for the sport.

The same people who cry corruption and that the RFL determine who wins are the ones who claim that the RFL can’t organise the proverbial in a brewery. 

[LeeF]

2 hours ago, sam4731 said:

Edited September 9, 2023 by LeeF
Duplicate

[phiggins]

1 hour ago, FearTheVee said:

The penalty was for offside, it wasn’t even a high tackle despite Leigh reactions, which Percy rightly laughed at.

Only replay I saw was from the big screen, from the other side of the sticks. But it looked like there was contact with the head to me, after charging from a hugely offside position.

It was ridiculous

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, FearTheVee said:

The penalty was for offside, it wasn’t even a high tackle despite Leigh reactions, which Percy rightly laughed at.

You must be 'kin joking, blind or just thick, if you watched it on TV you will see that it was a high shot and the ref said it was a high tackle.

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, daz39 said:

The penalty was for offside as he was offside first, he hit the man after he was offside, Ref's cannot give 2 penalites at once, either way Leigh got a penalty.

If Amone stayed down hurt, what do you think would have been the call then?

[FearTheVee]

3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

You must be 'kin joking, blind or just thick, if you watched it on TV you will see that it was a high shot and the ref said it was a high tackle.

Let’s see if the disciplinary agree with you.

Looked a nothing tackle other than being offside. I’d be astounded if anything came of it.

[Harry Stottle]

8 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

Let’s see if the disciplinary agree with you.

Looked a nothing tackle other than being offside. I’d be astounded if anything came of it.

Is that your observation from the terraces FTV?

I have been to many games and not thought anything has gone on then seen there as been half a dozen sightings up before the panel.

[Barry Badrinath]

6 hours ago, daz39 said:

The penalty was for offside as he was offside first, he hit the man after he was offside, Ref's cannot give 2 penalites at once, either way Leigh got a penalty.

Foul play used to over ride technical offences

[Josef K]

What a fantastic match with an electric atmosphere. Beaumont’s Leopards are working because my little Staffordshire granddaughter travelled up on the night to watch her two favourite teams. Leigh are her 2nd team because she loves leopards, two pts for Mr B. 
The atmosphere was deafening at times, my ears were buzzing. Leigh looked the more dangerous of the two sides when they moved the ball wide. I thought they might’ve targeted Davies & Bennison more often, especially Davies. Thankfully our defence was rock solid for most of the night. Roby had a brilliant game, his best of the season, because most of the year he has been average at best.
My Staffs Granddaughter give the night a 10/10, she did ask why do people drink so much and miss a lot of the best bits!!!!. 

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, Josef K said:

What a fantastic match with an electric atmosphere. Beaumont’s Leopards are working because my little Staffordshire granddaughter travelled up on the night to watch her two favourite teams. Leigh are her 2nd team because she loves leopards, two pts for Mr B. 
The atmosphere was deafening at times, my ears were buzzing. Leigh looked the more dangerous of the two sides when they moved the ball wide. I thought they might’ve targeted Davies & Bennison more often, especially Davies. Thankfully our defence was rock solid for most of the night. Roby had a brilliant game, his best of the season, because most of the year he has been average at best.
My Staffs Granddaughter give the night a 10/10, she did ask why do people drink so much and miss a lot of the best bits!!!!. 

I don't understand why clubs don't have real, genuine family areas where alcohol is banned. At Wire the family stand is anything but that. 

[Spidey]

28 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I don't understand why clubs don't have real, genuine family areas where alcohol is banned. At Wire the family stand is anything but that. 

My season ticket at Widnes was in what was the designated the family stand. Has been that way since the renovations were complete, many there have had the same seats since then. Our reward - it’s now also where the club allocate the away fans, this has been a contributing factor in people I know not coming to games. Every club needs to review their match day experience. Top to bottom 

[Dunbar]

6 hours ago, Dave T said:

I don't understand why clubs don't have real, genuine family areas where alcohol is banned. At Wire the family stand is anything but that. 

 

6 hours ago, Spidey said:

My season ticket at Widnes was in what was the designated the family stand. Has been that way since the renovations were complete, many there have had the same seats since then. Our reward - it’s now also where the club allocate the away fans, this has been a contributing factor in people I know not coming to games. Every club needs to review their match day experience. Top to bottom 

I was going to mention this the other day but it slipped my mind.  This reminded me.

I was in San Francisco the week before last for a conference.  The hotel we stayed in was a (very) short walk from Oracle Park, the home of the San Francisco baseball team.  They played a game I think every day of our 4 night stay.

We tried to get tickets for a game but couldn't so watched in a bar opposite the stadium. The stadium is picturesque, as it is next to the water, and the game day experience looked superb.

I used to be in the camp that Americans don't 'do' sports atmospheres as they weren't tribal enough but as I get older I realise they do it really well.  The fans are passionate, they just don't want to rip each other to pieces.   And the game day's allow families to enjoy themselves.  It is a good template to work from I think. 

[Josef K]

8 hours ago, Dave T said:

I don't understand why clubs don't have real, genuine family areas where alcohol is banned. At Wire the family stand is anything but that. 

My granddaughter was giggling at the behaviour of some of the fans. That is grown men plastered, going berserk, with faces as red as a gammon, because Saints didn’t get a decision go their way. 
I asked her after the game what she thought of their behaviour and her reply was “silly Billy’s”. Nothing will be done about the pish head’s because it’s money for clubs. I don’t class every supporter who enjoys a few pints before or during a game as being an irritant. It’s just that there are some who are embarrassing, perhaps they don’t realise that they become vulgar after a glass of red wine. 

[Harry Stottle]

On 09/09/2023 at 20:24, Barry Badrinath said:

Foul play used to over ride technical offences

Still does, which makes it so much more baffling that the ref tells the captain's he knows it was a high shot but he is giving the penalty for offside and chooses not to talk to the player of his misdemeanor.

[phiggins]

On 09/09/2023 at 19:33, FearTheVee said:

Let’s see if the disciplinary agree with you.

Looked a nothing tackle other than being offside. I’d be astounded if anything came of it.

The disciplinary will be deciding whether an incident is worthy of a charge. It's not there to validate or otherwise the referees decisions.

Either way, it was an example of the poor discipline that some Saints fans have bemoaned on this forum. The penalty for offside was the best case scenario for Percival, not sure what positive outcome he was expecting from such a blatantly early charge off the defensive line. The penalty conceded for shoving O'Brien into touch after the tackle was completed was also a poor one. Both completely unnecessary as the Saints line speed was applying enough pressure on Leigh.

I imagine that if Saints are going to win 5 in a row, at some point they'll have to beat Wigan, and they'll need to cut out those brain fade moments to do so. 

Based on the games that I've seen Saints this season, they do look a better team for having Knowles at prop and Bell at 13. Probably allows for a better line speed, with the younger overall pack, and have always thought that Bell is a very good 13 anyway.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, phiggins said:

and have always thought that Bell is a very good 13 anyway.

At the build up to the WC when some where claiming that Knowles was the best No 13/Loose Forward in the World(?). I said at the time and will still stand by my statement that he was not even the best Loose Forward at St Helens.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Harry Stottle

[phiggins]

With the disallowed try, one question I have on the rules (not the decision, can't question that when I don't know the rules!), is, given the 'free play' has been ditched, at what point would the ref not go back to the original scrum if Saints lose the ball?

[bobbruce]

46 minutes ago, phiggins said:

With the disallowed try, one question I have on the rules (not the decision, can't question that when I don't know the rules!), is, given the 'free play' has been ditched, at what point would the ref not go back to the original scrum if Saints lose the ball?

I think once he’s deemed them to have gained an advantage. 

[phiggins]

20 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

I think once he’s deemed them to have gained an advantage. 

That's my understanding also, but it seems quite vague. Saints had gained ground beyond where Mellor touched the ball, and played two or three passes. If the last pass hadn't been thrown and that player had just taken the tackle, would it have been zero tackle, and play the ball for the first tackle? I Doubt he'd have gone back to the scrum.

The same scenario will happen in pretty much every game, just the try being scored and subsequently disallowed by the VR just highlights it. But there should be some threshold, otherwise, may as well go back to having free play.

[bobbruce]

1 minute ago, phiggins said:

That's my understanding also, but it seems quite vague. Saints had gained ground beyond where Mellor touched the ball, and played two or three passes. If the last pass hadn't been thrown and that player had just taken the tackle, would it have been zero tackle, and play the ball for the first tackle? I Doubt he'd have gone back to the scrum.

The same scenario will happen in pretty much every game, just the try being scored and subsequently disallowed by the VR just highlights it. But there should be some threshold, otherwise, may as well go back to having free play.

It used to be once you’d gained ground or passed the ball that used to be deemed advantage over. That seems to have changed to refs discretion maybe natural progression after getting rid of free play. 

[Josef K]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

At the build up to the WC when some where claiming that Knowles was the best No 13/Loose Forward in the World(?). I said at the time and will still stand by my statement that he was not even the best Loose Forward at St Helens.

Knowles hasn’t done anything for years, im amazed how some Saints fans rate him so much. I was told by a Saints supporter who stands behind me that “i don’t see what he doesn’t do ”.

I also think Lees is overrated, he’ll tackle but when the club is down on props who can make the hard yards Lees is not that type of player. Mata’utia had a great game but i don’t think he is the answer for Saints, in moving him into the front row.