Sun 22 Oct: International: England v Tonga (at Totally Wicked Stadium, St Helens) KO 2.30pm

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

I know this conversation has been had many times before, but I really wish it had been a neutral referee. He didn’t have a terrible game but there were mistakes and a couple of them undeniably favoured England. I’m not for a second suggesting Liam Moore did that with any bias in mind, but it does open us up to criticism. Woolf had a thinly veiled dig at the ref allowing England to slow the play down and the general ruck area - so it’s not like we can say it’s just fans saying it. 

Not just a neutral ref, the whole officiating crew should be neutral like in soccer and other sports which take Internationals seriously. 

[Zilla Budgie]

Hopefully Chris 'Over The' Hill isn't selected for the 2nd test, on current form I have no idea why he was selected today. He can't help his age I know, but I though Shaun Wane had 'one eye' on the next world cup, obviously not. 

[north yorks trinity]

1 hour ago, meast said:

You'll love Huddersfield, it's the best town in West, West Yorkshire

But several better in east West Yorkshire, not including Wakefield, which is a city of course. 

[redjonn]

35 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

I think the main things that were noticeable to me were Moore not picking up on barely an English foot attempting to play the ball (apart from some of our NRL contingent) compared to Tonga. We know SL is lazy with that but can’t be let go at international level imo. Then, as per Woolf’s alleged ‘analysis’ in his presser - it did feel like Tonga were being called off tackles and/or giving away repeat sets for less holding down than England. Woolf reckons a full second difference on average - I’d be interested to see that analysis. There was a pretty blatant obstruction/crossing that nearly saw Burgess go over. As I say, these are all common game issues but you invite this level of scrutiny when the referee not only referees in a league where most of one team play, but is also from that country. Surely wouldn’t have been hard to get an Aus/NZ ref.

 

edit: not unsurprisingly the first NRL article I’ve seen about the game focuses on AFB and Woolf not been happy about the calls they did/didn’t get. I know teams moan when they lose but I myself raised this because I think there’s some merit in them feeling slightly aggrieved. The worry now is whoever refs next week will have all this going on in their mind, no matter how professional they are. 
https://www.nrl.com/news/2023/10/23/i-dont-feel-like-they-beat-us-tonga-lament-mistakes-in-first-test-defeat/

I guess part of the game plan for next game ref, its what coaches do.

Besides I thought Tonga were the worst offenders  especially for leaving bodies in the way... lost count of number of times England dummy half having to step over a Tonga body at ptb.

[Rovers13]

55 minutes ago, phiggins said:

You want to ban dummy runners?

(Both tries were disallowed in the Leigh - Wigan game btw)

No not at all just think they shouldn’t run into defending players, run into the gaps in the defensive line.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Rovers13

[Rovers13]

50 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Onus is on the defender to adjust. If he can but doesn't, it's a poor read. If he can't, tough luck. Being tackled off the ball is not obstruction.

I just think a lot of it is planned and playing to obstruct now a days, crossing gets called yet it’s nowhere near as bad as obstruction to me, if a defender is taken out of game whether it’s his fault or not he shouldn’t be put in that position to tackle a dummy runner no dummy runner should run into a defending player for him to have to make the tackle imo, I just think when it comes to obstruction it needs to be clear the defender wasn’t taken out of the game and the Tonga try today for me he was. 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Rovers13

[The Alchemist]

4 hours ago, Rovers13 said:

That’s making wiganers sound like scientists

I am a scientist from Wigan!

[JohnM]

1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

Not just a neutral ref, the whole officiating crew should be neutral like in soccer and other sports which take Internationals seriously. 

And as you know, neutral refs in many sports are completely free from controversy and criticism...not.

In any case, it would not take long for "neutral" officials to be criticised as partisan on here for once having watched Skippy, bought New Zealand Butter or drunk Chateau Nuit St. George.

So no, leave it as it is, would be my wish.

[StandOffHalf]

An OK game on a pretty stodgy pitch.

The Tongans tired a bit running in that mud, with the home ref suiting England.

Hope there is a dry track for Game 2.

[StandOffHalf]

The BBC caller was awful, I thought. Matt Newsum?

He's no Vossy.

[ghost crayfish]

1 hour ago, Zilla Budgie said:

Hopefully Chris 'Over The' Hill isn't selected for the 2nd test, on current form I have no idea why he was selected today. He can't help his age I know, but I though Shaun Wane had 'one eye' on the next world cup, obviously not. 

If the best option for younger props to select is Matty Lees, it makes sense they still feel the need to pick Hill. Lees is nowhere near test standard I'm afraid. 

[StandOffHalf]

The English halves were very good. Lewis running and trickery; Smith solid and controlling.

Koula should be moved to FB for the Tongans. Hopoate was stuck in the St. Helens mud as young Lewis went around him.

[StandOffHalf]

I wish refs enforced the proper PTB rules - with the foot!

[JohnM]

What's this "dry track" that's been mentioned? There used to be a track at Odsal, if I recall correctly. Oh, yes..and at the Don Valley Stadium too. That was dry. None at Huddersfield though.

[George Watt]

11 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Love it Mikey , well done lad 

Is he the first lad born in Hull and playing for HKR to win a MOM for an England or GB game?

Watched Phil Lowe but don't recall him doing it!

[StandOffHalf]

I take it this game wasn't televised in Oz and NZ?

Minimal - if any - coverage in the Aussie papers and websites I've looked at.

Missed opportunity if so, considering the large Tongan community in NZ. Inconsiderate too towards those passionate fans left out in the cold.

[AB90]

16 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

I take it this game wasn't televised in Oz and NZ?

Minimal - if any - coverage in the Aussie papers and websites I've looked at.

Missed opportunity if so, considering the large Tongan community in NZ. Inconsiderate too towards those passionate fans left out in the cold.

It’s was televised live on Fox - 12.30am Monday morning

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

9 hours ago, meast said:

You'll love Huddersfield, it's the best town in West, West Yorkshire

Been to the John Smith's a few times but this will be the first time we are staying over....going into town after (to watch the England-less RU final and beer)

Really looking forward to it

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

8 hours ago, crashmon said:

I don't live anywhere near MK.   I live in Surrey.  I'd love to see you get from Egham in Surrey to Leeds in 2.5 hours either by car or train.  Th e people I would bring live in the Guildford, woking, weybridge, walton area's/  I love to see you travel and park up in headingly in 2.5 hous from those places.

Also if I'm in the car for 4 hours I'm going to be stopping at a service station at least once to take a break and get a drink...  You can add 20 - 30 mins on top for that stop.

So why did you start talking about MK then if it is t relevant to you?

[StandOffHalf]

39 minutes ago, AB90 said:

It’s was televised live on Fox - 12.30am Monday morning

That's good to hear.

Fox Sports finally put up a report 5 hours ago. I had assumed that the blackout was due to them not having the rights and the tour falling outside the CBA.

NRL 2023: England vs Tonga, international rugby league, Jack Welsby, results, highlights, video, schedule, Kristian Woolf, news, Tolu Koula (foxsports.com.au)

Is Fox League available in NZ, though? I hope the big Tongan diaspora in NZ were catered to and were able to catch the game.

[gingerjon]

32 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

So why did you start talking about MK then if it is t relevant to you?

He didn't.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

Just an observation. I've just been on the BBC sport app and I noticed that the story on this game is 11th on the articles. A story on a regular season NFL game is 5th. So an international featuring a home nation in a sport played in this country that is covered by the BBC is more than twice as far down the articles than a regular season game of a foreign sport. Like I say, just an observation. 

[gingerjon]

9 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

Just an observation. I've just been on the BBC sport app and I noticed that the story on this game is 11th on the articles. A story on a regular season NFL game is 5th. So an international featuring a home nation in a sport played in this country that is covered by the BBC is more than twice as far down the articles than a regular season game of a foreign sport. Like I say, just an observation. 

There's an element of 'dog bites man' going on there to an extent. England beating Tonga in a home test match is interesting but it's not going to be as interesting the morning after as if Tonga had beaten England.

That said, whilst the game was live, I think we were only third or fourth main story behind the day's football, which was disappointing. But the TV coverage was good and there was a lot of coverage on the radio.

We did okay. Rather like the attendance, it's at the upper end of 'alright'.

[Archie Gordon]

We have 7 tries, almost all excellently-constructed, a couple in the sensational bracket, plus the Sipi Tau, plus an emotional Mikey Lewis. Selling the second test via visuals should be easy.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Been to the John Smith's a few times but this will be the first time we are staying over....going into town after (to watch the England-less RU final and beer)

Really looking forward to it

Same here. Off to Botafogo for dinner and then Fury fight in pub after. Should be a cracking day. 

Not all pre and post game entertainment has to be face painting and a bouncy castle outside the ground.