London Broncos 2024

[Archie Gordon]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

IMG have clearly identified that to do all that stuff they are good at, they need to have the product on offer to do so (ie the clubs). Currently they only have 7 that meet their ideal levels.

You're rewriting history. 

The agency will initially focus on competition restructuring, content production and innovation, domestic and international distribution of media rights, digital transformation powered by IMG’s digital sports arm Seven League, brand strategy delivered by Endeavor’s cultural marketing agency 160over90, and streaming through Endeavor’s OTT platform Endeavor Streaming.  

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

You're rewriting history. 

The agency will initially focus on competition restructuring, content production and innovation, domestic and international distribution of media rights, digital transformation powered by IMG’s digital sports arm Seven League, brand strategy delivered by Endeavor’s cultural marketing agency 160over90, and streaming through Endeavor’s OTT platform Endeavor Streaming.  

1. Competition restructuring - Grading is absolutely a restructure. Recommendations around loop games and magic and cup etc. 

2. Content production and innovation/ domestic and international rights - new TV deal which is a change from our previous deals. All games to be shown. 

3. Digital transformation - I don't think we've seen outputs yet on this, stuff could have happened behind the scenes, but not sure what is happening here. 

4. Brand strategy - recommended a brand refresh, RL Comm said may be progressed now tv deal complete. 

I don't see anything neglected. Obviously it doesn't all just happen overnight, hence the 12 year deal, but everything there has been works on I'd say. 

[Archie Gordon]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

1. Competition restructuring - Grading is absolutely a restructure. Recommendations around loop games and magic and cup etc. 

2. Content production and innovation/ domestic and international rights - new TV deal which is a change from our previous deals. All games to be shown. 

3. Digital transformation - I don't think we've seen outputs yet on this, stuff could have happened behind the scenes, but not sure what is happening here. 

4. Brand strategy - recommended a brand refresh, RL Comm said may be progressed now tv deal complete. 

I don't see anything neglected. Obviously it doesn't all just happen overnight, hence the 12 year deal, but everything there has been works on I'd say. 

Sure, for 2/3/4/5 (streaming) stuff could be happening out of sight but not even a timeline has come to light. 

[binosh]

58 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

IMG have clearly identified that to do all that stuff they are good at, they need to have the product on offer to do so (ie the clubs). Currently they only have 7 that meet their ideal levels.

According to their ideal levels (which I agree with) Academy and Reserves are worth less than if not equal to Electronic Sponsorship boards.

In a game that has a cap on importing young talent where do they expect the player pool to increase from? France is nowhere near interested enough to professionalise their leagues.

The NRL has no quota on Fijia, Samoan, Kiwi, Tongan, PNG, Cook Island, even tier 2 players however we do, and we are the ones struggling.

[binosh]

1 hour ago, Archie Gordon said:

I'd say that's kinda trite (and that saying the reverse would be just as trite).

A common theme in the criticism is that IMG are very welcome to start doing the things they're expert at. It's just that they've fannied about doing stuff that we didn't need them to do or could have done just as badly ourselves.

I want IMG to get going on the things they promised to do first before they got sucked into the gradings. I'm ready to swing in right behind them if they focus on digital, social media, branding, streaming, ticketing, merch, etc. I don't think I'm alone.

Bang on. I saw a post on twitter with a vocal Wigan fan who said……

 

“I think you’re average RL fan probably expected IMG to be more pro-active on income streams, product monetisation and TV rights/streaming deals than more change in structure, they have been onboard 18 months an have overseen the latest Sky deal. 

Does it feel like they are providing the £250k-£450k worth of value that it is rumoured to be costing annually?

Seems like a lot of moving deck chairs than anything else in typical rugby league fashion at present”

 

I thought this exchange summed it up quite well. IMG have started tinkering with the one thing the RFL have done for enough of in the last few years, structure change, instead of bringing more money in.

More money covers a multitude of sins.

[binosh]

1 hour ago, bobbruce said:

I think most governing bodies would set some standards clubs have to achieve in order to run academies. 

Agreed, however the women’s game is growing and improving with little to no investment or much money in the way of contracts, not that I agree with that but it shows you can start somewhere. York seem to be leading the way in that department.

I would expect some clubs to to invest more than others, no different to football, the best setups would attract the best players.

[Londonbornirishbred]

11 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

In your opinion where will this demise of the Broncos lie.

I watched both the semi v Featherstone and the Final v Toulouse, I listened to the coach Mr Eccles and he was exuberant, the players seemingly buoyant and Mr Hughes looked like he was on cloud nine, promotion gained job acheived.

Collectivly from those present officials and player's and even from the commentary there was no indication that this was going to be the beginning of the end for the Broncos as you are predicting, so what has changed?

Eccles, the players and Hughes were as stunned as everyone else that they won promotion. YES, Coaches and Players "expect to always win" but the harsh reality was a play-off spot was the best they would have hoped for back in February. As for Hughes? He's on record as saying he is scaling back his involvement and investment with his son taking more of a role moving forward. Off the pitch, the CEO and commercial director have failed miserably over the last 2 years in the "stated aim" of attracting bigger crowds and more corporate revenue. We had no shirt sponsor up until the play-offs this year, whilst anyone who purchased a season ticket for the 2023 season has a right to feel aggrieved given the level of discounting that was going on during the ENTIRE season. The sole focus of the commercial department seemed to be upselling corporate hospitality (an extra £15 for a comfy seat and a buffet meal) in some vanity based attempt to prove that the move to Wimbledon, that was based on commercial opportunities, hadn't been a massive error.

I'm on record as saying that when Hughes took over the club after Lenegans departure, it had a 4k average fan base, £1.5? million in SL funding, a few shirt sponsors and paid £220,000 a year to play in a purpose built rugby stadium that we also had offices at. Last season (2023), the club received considerable less central funding, had no shirt sponsor and were watched by fewer than 1,000 in a stadium reportedly costing £220,000 a year to rent, but which isn't available for 10+ weeks during the summer, whilst renting a regus office in Richmond and renting another rugby ground for reserve, ladies and academy games. 

Promotion was a pleasant surprise, but the reality is that after Toronto folded and London weren't invited back to SL after being relegated with the highest points tally ever, it would have become obvious to Hughes that neither the SL chairmen, the RFL or the Broadcast partners were interested in London and that he was on his own. His failure to understand the direct connectivity between the number of fans at games, the interest of sponsors and the associated revenue streams has 100% caused the loss of revenue and 75% of the fans he inherited. The fact that they recently set up a fan group in direct opposition to the LBSA, who have sponsored the Academy for years show the disconnect from reality that Hughes and Loubser have

The demise of the club has been slow, painful to witness but very predictable and with Hughes at the helm, it will continue until the club eventually goes the way of the Skolars. I get no pleasure in saying it, but I predicted it would happen as far back as 2009 and I have seen nothing that makes me change that opinion.

Thrilled to be back in SL again though. Nothing like defending the club from would be haters when the crowd figures are announced each week and this year coming we'll have the added bonus of every game being televised

 

[Harry Stottle]

15 hours ago, Dave T said:

I disagree. For a couple of reasons. Firstly, people don't like to admit their initial impressions were wrong. Often they'll double down. Harry has been extremely vocal on this. It takes a fair bit to admit they have changed their opinion. 

And secondly, its far too early imo to make an assessment of their work, so I wouldn't expect people to be blown away one way or another. 

On the last para, could you highlight what IMG have said they'd do that they haven't? 

 

Please rephrase that Dave, are you saying that I was pro IMG initially then changed my mind? If so that is certainly not the case, I have always thought that their inclusion will be damaging for the sport, the sport is not just SL in my opinion and I feel this system of theirs is just one eyed.

 

[Harry Stottle]

On 15/11/2023 at 21:41, Tommygilf said:

That's what I've been told

 

On 15/11/2023 at 22:19, Tommygilf said:

That is what I have been told.

 

On 15/11/2023 at 22:29, Tommygilf said:

They aren't doing this for free

 

22 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Fibs or people not reading accurately.

 

21 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Please link to where it informs all and subdry that IMG are to recieve an annual fee of £450K. Until Atlantisman disclosed it and you answerered with "Thats what I have been told" which gives no indication that you have read it nor is it your style on this subject, you would have been telling us to read the document.

 

20 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

It has been told to the clubs months ago, H.

Obviously Tommy those quotes are in relation to IMG being paid a fee of £450K /annum, I was in conversation with Martyn Sadler yesterday on another thread and I posed the question to him was he aware of these payments as it was being discussed in another thread, his answer:-

No, that has only recently come to my attention.

I'm trying to clarify it.

It's no doubt one of many things in the RFL-IMG contract that only very few people knew about.

Which is the thread in which this is being discussed?

On a quick scan I can't see it.

Now I am not saying that what you have told us in as much as "People not reading accurately", "They aren't doing this for free" and "It has been told to the clubs months ago" is not accurate, but considering the job that Mr Sadler does and his contacts within the sport I would have thought he would have been aware of this information.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Harry Stottle

[The Future is League]

In all of this debate about the London Broncos is that the RFL has no development officers in London and with the Broncos deciding to pull the funding on their academy there is no obvious pathway for young athletes who want to play Rugby League.

[Archie Gordon]

2 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

In all of this debate about the London Broncos is that the RFL has no development officers in London and with the Broncos deciding to pull the funding on their academy there is no obvious pathway for young athletes who want to play Rugby League.

Serious question to everyone as there is probably a short window of opportunity to salvage something:

Given that the elite scholarship/academy has gone for 2024, what would you put in its place that would obviously be (a) substantially cheaper for the Broncos to run and (b) help develop the cream of the LJL and give them opportunities to improve and play against better opposition? 

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously Tommy those quotes are in relation to IMG being paid a fee of £450K /annum, I was in conversation with Martyn Sadler yesterday on another thread and I posed the question to him was he aware of these payments as it was being discussed in another thread, his answer:-

No, that has only recently come to my attention.

I'm trying to clarify it.

It's no doubt one of many things in the RFL-IMG contract that only very few people knew about.

Which is the thread in which this is being discussed?

On a quick scan I can't see it.

Now I am not saying that what you have told us in as much as "People not reading accurately", "They aren't doing this for free" and "It has been told to the clubs months ago" is not accurate, but considering the job that Mr Sadler does and his contacts within the sport I would have thought he would have been aware of this information.

Maybe his contacts didn't tell him?

[Lowdesert]

47 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

Serious question to everyone as there is probably a short window of opportunity to salvage something:

Given that the elite scholarship/academy has gone for 2024, what would you put in its place that would obviously be (a) substantially cheaper for the Broncos to run and (b) help develop the cream of the LJL and give them opportunities to improve and play against better opposition? 

For A - bit more complicated to go into here.

For B - That would have to be individual arrangements with different clubs, I would think? 

[Click]

1 hour ago, Archie Gordon said:

Serious question to everyone as there is probably a short window of opportunity to salvage something:

Given that the elite scholarship/academy has gone for 2024, what would you put in its place that would obviously be (a) substantially cheaper for the Broncos to run and (b) help develop the cream of the LJL and give them opportunities to improve and play against better opposition? 

They have the RFLs pathway that they will be utilising, which I believe links up with local colleges, etc.

The RFL have now said that LB may get more out of this pathway than an Elite Academy, for substantially less money.

[gingerjon]

31 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Maybe his contacts didn't tell him?

Sadler’s contacts with IMG are so good that he told us he sent us his big idea as an unsolicited email to a generic address.

[del capo]

1 hour ago, Click said:

They have the RFLs pathway that they will be utilising, which I believe links up with local colleges, etc.

The RFL have now said that LB may get more out of this pathway than an Elite Academy, for substantially less money.

Correct.

The RFL have indicated the route to follow and to be fair LB in their press release seem to be aware of what is needed.

Development Academy.  Ofsted compliant.  College  / education setting. Midweek competition thereby allowing students to play weekend with their community clubs.

There is absolutely no reason why the massive player pool potential that is London should be lost to the game. All that is needed is for the job to be done properly.

Wigan , Warrington the two Hulls etc ALL run Development Academies in addition to their Elite ones. Wigan for instance run theirs out of the Robin Park Arena as the actual education setting, with courses up to and including degree level

[Archie Gordon]

43 minutes ago, del capo said:

Correct.

The RFL have indicated the route to follow and to be fair LB in their press release seem to be aware of what is needed.

Development Academy.  Ofsted compliant.  College  / education setting. Midweek competition thereby allowing students to play weekend with their community clubs.

...

That would be an OK outcome but that is not what London currently propose to do. 

[newbe]

3 hours ago, The Future is League said:

In all of this debate about the London Broncos is that the RFL has no development officers in London and with the Broncos deciding to pull the funding on their academy there is no obvious pathway for young athletes who want to play Rugby League.

I have heard through the grape vine, maybe down south we should rhe England Lions.Heart pathway, you have the northern teams, what about a southern one. That would put players on show, and show the strength of the SCL.

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Maybe his contacts didn't tell him?

Very predictable answer.

[Tommygilf]

6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Very predictable answer.

Well it is the obvious one H.

[MattSantos]

17 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Well it is the obvious one H.

Who told you?

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Well it is the obvious one H.

  But seriously why would this not be disclosed by the RFL to the No1 trade paper we have, as Martyn says "It's no doubt one of many things in the RFL-IMG contract that only very few people knew about" 

It will be interesting to learn what those many other things are, what chance of any transparency coming out of RL Commercial/IMG it is all to much cloak and dagger, for mine.

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, MattSantos said:

Who told you?

One of my best mates

[Tommygilf]

54 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

  But seriously why would this not be disclosed by the RFL to the No1 trade paper we have, as Martyn says "It's no doubt one of many things in the RFL-IMG contract that only very few people knew about" 

It will be interesting to learn what those many other things are, what chance of any transparency coming out of RL Commercial/IMG it is all to much cloak and dagger, for mine.

Was it asked?

[Griff]

6 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

One of my best mates

Which suggests it wasn't public knowledge.

Which is what Harry is saying.