Kenya v France

[Barley Mow]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

The rankings are pretty meaningless  because of what you say. Wales would beat Serbia easily.

Maybe they should invite them to play a game to test it out and regain a place in the rankings.

[Damien]

11 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

Maybe they should invite them to play a game to test it out and regain a place in the rankings.

I'm not bothered about rankings, I'm talking about competitiveness. Rankings in RL are irrelevant in that.

Wales should play more games, that is obvious, but that is because it is good for the international game.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Damien

[Barley Mow]

3 minutes ago, Damien said:

I'm not bothered about rankings, I'm talking about competitiveness. Rankings in RL are irrelevant in that.

Wales should play more games, that is obvious, but that is because it is good for the international game.

Straying off the topic of Kenya v France somewhat, but my plan for mid-season Internationals in Europe would be for a two week mid-season break:

Every country plays two games, one against the European country placed closest above them in the IRL rankings and the other against the one placed closest below them. The lower ranked country being at home in all matches.

Doing this year in, year out would soon mean that the rankings (for Europe at least) would reflect the real strength of the countries, it would give the most competitive matches and allow everyone to follow their progress year on year.

End of season internationals would be for tournaments, tours to/from other continents or whatever other games individual countries wanted to organise.

Everyone would get one home and one away match against the closest matched teams - Except the lowest ranked (who would only get one game - but I would ensure they are compensated with additional fixtures at other times) and the highest ranked (us for the foreseeable future) - the spare week here I would have for a Roses Match (or a game against All-Stars/Exiles).

 

But yes, my point was that Wales should play more, for the good of themselves and the game internationally. The way the rankings work does try to encourage that by weighting more recent matches - but that does mean they are less reflective of the actual (probable) standard of teams.

[JonM]

1 hour ago, Barley Mow said:

Maybe they should invite them to play a game to test it out and regain a place in the rankings.

They were both due to play last month in the European championship/ RLWC qualifiers that were cancelled.

[Barley Mow]

2 minutes ago, JonM said:

They were both due to play last month in the European championship/ RLWC qualifiers that were cancelled.

Yes. When it was cancelled, Serbia arranged matches against France and Netherlands in late September/October.

It would have been nice if Wales had been able to arrange some fixtures as well.

[JonM]

15 hours ago, Gomersall said:

If South Africa can score 80+ against Kenya then the French will score a century + IMO.

Kenya arrived in SA on the morning of the first game. Suspect they'll be a different proposition at home. And the French have a well earned reputation for not showing up for internationals, so maybe it will be a little closer.

In any case, the fact that it is France will count for a lot with the locals regardless of the result, just as it did with Oxford Uni going to play Ghana.

[Eddie]

21 minutes ago, JonM said:

Kenya arrived in SA on the morning of the first game. Suspect they'll be a different proposition at home. And the French have a well earned reputation for not showing up for internationals, so maybe it will be a little closer.

In any case, the fact that it is France will count for a lot with the locals regardless of the result, just as it did with Oxford Uni going to play Ghana.

An NCL3 team would comfortably beat Kenya, them being home or away will make no difference. 

[NRLandSL]

2 hours ago, barnyia said:

He's going back to the roosters in December or January I believe, my son says he's definitely going back(they played France 17s together), Sascha was going back to play too but has decided to stay at Villeneuve and as actually taken a double licence to play union as well, 

Fantastic news, really excited to see what he can do as a roosters fan. I’m sure Trent Robinson will be eager to debut him.

Edited November 14, 2023 by NRLandSL

[NRLandSL]

33 minutes ago, JonM said:

Kenya arrived in SA on the morning of the first game. Suspect they'll be a different proposition at home. And the French have a well earned reputation for not showing up for internationals, so maybe it will be a little closer.

In any case, the fact that it is France will count for a lot with the locals regardless of the result, just as it did with Oxford Uni going to play Ghana.

I very much doubt this will be anything under 130 points if the French try for the full 80. It’s a team of top 2 grade players versing a team of amateurs who have probably only played the sport for a years. This could be a IRL record breaker unfortunately, but I hope I’m wrong.

[JonM]

2 hours ago, NRLandSL said:

I very much doubt this will be anything under 130 points if the French try for the full 80. It’s a team of top 2 grade players versing a team of amateurs who have probably only played the sport for a years. This could be a IRL record breaker unfortunately, but I hope I’m wrong.

France have lost to the USA in the past decade and away in Lebanon multiple times. I wouldn't underestimate their ability to have a punch up within the team, or go out on the lash the night before or something.

In any case, the result is not the point. It's being ambassadors and that France are a big name in world sport. The fact that sponsors in Kenya are prepared to pay for a France team to visit, for them to travel to SA etc. is pretty amazing. Just as the fact that Kenya, Ghana, Cameroon and Nigeria have been able to get together for internationals. 8 mens teams competed in Kenya's recent comp, there was a woman's comp too. (Fwiw, Accra to London is about the same distance as Accra to Nairobi; Africa is big.,)

[GeordieSaint]

8 hours ago, Eddie said:

Blimey I hadn’t considered that. If it’s true then it demonstrates what a woeful state the international game is in, that a twice World Cup finalist has to play a country who’ve played a couple of international games to get ranking points. 

When did France last play in the WC Final? Rankings are based on current results and activity. I think it’s a good thing France are playing Kenya. I’d like to see more activity. Across the board. 

[Pie tries]

23 hours ago, Eddie said:

They’ll destroy them, I don’t see the point of sending such a strong side. 

Who cares…

[Eddie]

2 minutes ago, Pie tries said:

Who cares…

Clearly not France or Kenya.

[Pie tries]

Just now, Eddie said:

Clearly not France or Kenya.

Exactly! This is a fixture a few years ago we could have dreamed about…

[Eddie]

4 hours ago, JonM said:

France have lost to the USA in the past decade and away in Lebanon multiple times. I wouldn't underestimate their ability to have a punch up within the team, or go out on the lash the night before or something.

In any case, the result is not the point. It's being ambassadors and that France are a big name in world sport. The fact that sponsors in Kenya are prepared to pay for a France team to visit, for them to travel to SA etc. is pretty amazing. Just as the fact that Kenya, Ghana, Cameroon and Nigeria have been able to get together for internationals. 8 mens teams competed in Kenya's recent comp, there was a woman's comp too. (Fwiw, Accra to London is about the same distance as Accra to Nairobi; Africa is big.,)

Are Kenyan sponsors paying for France to go over there then?

[Eddie]

Just now, Pie tries said:

Exactly! This is a fixture a few years ago we could have dreamed about…

I know what you’re saying, but the fact that France have to do it to get ranking points because they play so infrequently and theres no more suitable opposition is depressing. 

[Mathius Hellwege]

12 hours ago, Eddie said:

I know what you’re saying, but the fact that France have to do it to get ranking points because they play so infrequently and theres no more suitable opposition is depressing. 

I do not believve that as so many European Nations are playing (everyone besidesthe Home Nations and Italy).

so they do it voluntarily, be it due to a sponsor or due to the wish to play at an exotic place

[kiggy]

Not Kenya...however, the French International, Laureane Biville, has a tournament named after her in Cameroon to help promote the women's game in Africa. 

[The Partisan]

Personally I like the idea and would like to see a PNG and/or NZ equivalent become a RL 'Development' ambassador for the Asia - Pacific region.  

Perhaps extend it have a tiered system across all nations but especially England, France, PNG, New Zealand and Australia.   

I go with teams not nations having a tier level. 

So Tonga's top squad of mostly NRL / SL players would be Tier 1

Tonga's best domestic competition players only would be Tier 4 or below. 

IRL to set criteria and eligibility for each tier.

 

• Ambassador team ...  to play teams / nations deemed as Tier 4 or below.  Ambassadors to hold clinics in playing, coaching, officiating and administration.  ( E.G. France 'Adventurers' to African nations and developing European countries / England Community Lions to Americas and developing European countries) 

 

• Invitational team ....to play teams deemed as Tier 3 / 4 teams.  As above re clinics  ( PNG 'Explorers' or NZ ' Trekkers' to Philippines and developing Pacific nations)

 

• 'A' team ....to play fellow 'A' teams or second tier deemed teams. Eligible to play Tier 1 Test teams also.  ( Engand Knights v Lebanon Cedars) 

 

• Test team ....to play top level representative teams from other nations.  ( Australian Kangaroos v England Lions; NZ Kiwis v PNG Kumuls)

 

 

 

 

[Adelaide Tiger]

On 14/11/2023 at 22:16, barnyia said:

That was the reason France played Serbia earlier this year, France was 8th Wales 9th and Serbia 10th if I remember. 

I suggest that the IRL adopt the rules that we had in the squash league consisting of male and female players where I worked.

So, if like Serbia in the IRL rankings, you were in 10th place in the squash league, you could only play someone who was a maximum of three places higher than you in the league.  You would issue a challenge, then the game HAD to take place within one week on a lunchtime.  If the game did not take place, the person that was unable to play - without a reasonable excuse - was automatically demoted to the bottom spot.  If you won you swapped places.

That would liven up the international game!

The shenanigans that went on were funny.  Some players would find out if an opponent had a diary full of 11am meetings, then challenge them to a lunchtime game, hoping that the opponents meeting ran over time so the game would be forfeit.

Also there was a few attractive female players in the league.  So you would organise a game against them, deliberately lose, so that you could play against them a few weeks later

Edited November 19, 2023 by Adelaide Tiger

[ATLANTISMAN]

This is a total waste of money 

[craig hamilton]

The negative barrage of comments in this thread is why international RL will never prosper or grow.

Instead of celebrating this, despite the fact France will win easily, it’s a deluge of doom and gloom.

How are teams meant to ever improve if they never get to play any games? 

Look at Argentina in RU, they got tonked every game in the Quad-Nations for years but got better and better during this period.

We need to get used to things taking time in rugby league and not abandoning them after 2/3 years if they are not a complete and total success.

Mighty oaks from small acorns grow and all that.

[overtheborder]

On 14/11/2023 at 12:21, Barley Mow said:

Straying off the topic of Kenya v France somewhat, but my plan for mid-season Internationals in Europe would be for a two week mid-season break:

Every country plays two games, one against the European country placed closest above them in the IRL rankings and the other against the one placed closest below them. The lower ranked country being at home in all matches.

Doing this year in, year out would soon mean that the rankings (for Europe at least) would reflect the real strength of the countries, it would give the most competitive matches and allow everyone to follow their progress year on year.

End of season internationals would be for tournaments, tours to/from other continents or whatever other games individual countries wanted to organise.

Everyone would get one home and one away match against the closest matched teams - Except the lowest ranked (who would only get one game - but I would ensure they are compensated with additional fixtures at other times) and the highest ranked (us for the foreseeable future) - the spare week here I would have for a Roses Match (or a game against All-Stars/Exiles).

 

But yes, my point was that Wales should play more, for the good of themselves and the game internationally. The way the rankings work does try to encourage that by weighting more recent matches - but that does mean they are less reflective of the actual (probable) standard of teams.

I like this idea to be honest - I'd also maybe go one further and say that nations need to be competing in these mid-season games in order to be eligible for the World Cup (not sure if it sounds draconian but as a standard World Cup participating teams should be playing at least semi-regularly, if nothing else to build the profile of the sport in their country).

No idea what the equivalent looks like for the southern hemisphere long-term but for the time being I'd say the competition they've recently announced serves a similar purpose pretty much, so I'd be less worried about that.

[audois]

The  20 players to go

AISPURO-BICHET Guillermo (Saint-Estève XIII Catalan)
AUBRY Félix (Carcassonne XIII)
BEN ABDESLEM Yacine (Saint-Estève XIII Catalan)
BOYER Clément (Carcassonne XIII)
BROCAS Luc (F.C. Lézignan XIII)
BUDDEN Hnaloan (R.C. Saint-Gaudens XIII)
CRUNEL Quentin (XIII Limouxin)
DALL’ASTA Paolo (XIII Limouxin)
FABRE Baptiste (Albi XIII RL)
GROSSON Maxime (S.O. Avignon XIII)
HERRERO Clément (Carcassonne XIII)
LE CAM Corentin (Saint-Estève XIII Catalan)
LEVEILLE Mathias (Albi XIII RL)
LOPEZ-BUTTIGNOL Nolan (Carcassonne XIII)
MARTY Mathias (Pia XIII)
PEDRERO Nittim (Albi XIII RL)
PONS Mathieu (R.C. Saint-Gaudens XIII)
POURCHI Baptiste (S.O. Avignon XIII)
SCIMONE Bastien (Dragons Catalans)
VERGNIOL Lucas (XIII Limouxin)

[welshmagpie]

On 19/11/2023 at 09:30, ATLANTISMAN said:

This is a total waste of money 

Come on Paul, that’s a poor take. For our sport to be offering young lads these opportunities especially in Africa is something we should be both celebrating and encouraging.

I know you’re on the ground in France and probably have a greater insight into the logistics of the tour so it’d be great to see any detail in support of your point.

We all yearn for more (and more diverse) international RL. Let’s not knock it when it comes our way.