European Development

[sam4731]

With development in the Pacific being driven by the NRL, is it about time that SL takes responsibility for Europe. Could we have salary cap exemptions for Welsh, Scottish, Irish and French born players? IMG grading points for European born player numbers?

Just a couple of suggestions.

[Damien]

The biggest thing it could do would be to get another French club and a Welsh club in SL. That would be the single biggest thing that could increase the talent pool for those countries.

Exemptions are fine but are just scratching around the edges and with only 12 SL spots they will never make a meaningful difference.

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, sam4731 said:

With development in the Pacific being driven by the NRL, is it about time that SL takes responsibility for Europe. Could we have salary cap exemptions for Welsh, Scottish, Irish and French born players? IMG grading points for European born player numbers?

Just a couple of suggestions.

If they remove the cap for European players from anywhere but France or possibly Wales there’ll still be no players good enough for SL. 

[sam4731]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

The biggest thing it could do would be to get another French club and a Welsh club in SL. That would be the single biggest thing that could increase the talent pool for those countries.

Exemptions are fine but are just scratching around the edges and with only 12 SL spots they will never make a meaningful difference.

 

15 minutes ago, Eddie said:

If they remove the cap for European players from anywhere but France or possibly Wales there’ll still be no players good enough for SL. 

Surely it will encourage SL teams to get scouts down to community/junior clubs in these areas to draw out the cream of the crop if they know it won't have any incursions on the cap in the long term.

[Damien]

53 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

Surely it will encourage SL teams to get scouts down to community/junior clubs in these areas to draw out the cream of the crop if they know it won't have any incursions on the cap in the long term.

The salary cap doesn't stop clubs doing this or signing young players in this way and many already do. It would be many years before the salary cap was remotely an issue so I can't see it making any difference to be honest.

[Damien]

As I said:

 

 

[rlno1]

21 hours ago, Damien said:

The biggest thing it could do would be to get another French club and a Welsh club in SL. That would be the single biggest thing that could increase the talent pool for those countries.

Exemptions are fine but are just scratching around the edges and with only 12 SL spots they will never make a meaningful difference.

The NRL have support from News Corp. Had it not been for their money, about $80 million the Melbourne Storm would have folded in the early days.

[Griff]

On 15/11/2023 at 15:17, sam4731 said:

 

Surely it will encourage SL teams to get scouts down to community/junior clubs in these areas to draw out the cream of the crop if they know it won't have any incursions on the cap in the long term.

Will thr cream of the crop be good enough fo Superleague? Even in countries noted for their dairy produce, such as Denmark and Ireland?

Edited November 16, 2023 by Griff

[langpark]

On 15/11/2023 at 14:19, sam4731 said:

With development in the Pacific being driven by the NRL, is it about time that SL takes responsibility for Europe. Could we have salary cap exemptions for Welsh, Scottish, Irish and French born players? IMG grading points for European born player numbers?

Just a couple of suggestions.

Nothing more annoying than seeing "European" in a thread title, only for it to be about Wales, Ireland, Scotland. 

[Veridical]

On 15/11/2023 at 15:17, sam4731 said:

 

Surely it will encourage SL teams to get scouts down to community/junior clubs in these areas to draw out the cream of the crop if they know it won't have any incursions on the cap in the long term.

The incentive is already there in the form of good players (if there are / such as they are) in relatively untapped sources at a cheap price. If that’s not enough of an incentive already versus the downside — cost, logistical difficulties, opportunity cost, possible lack of talent in the first place — then I don’t think a cap exemption would the tip the balance. 

The similar NRL provision for players from other codes is aimed principally at established players who will come at a higher cost. The risk / reward balance is tilted towards the former and the NRL policy helps to re-balance the incentives. Not to mention that NRL clubs are flusher in the first place and so, I suspect, the cap cost as distinct from the financial cost is more significant to them generally.

[sam4731]

10 minutes ago, langpark said:

Nothing more annoying than seeing "European" in a thread title, only for it to be about Wales, Ireland, Scotland. 

I think someone has gone a bit French blind.

[Coco]

With how Super League was formed and how it is run, we can't see a development of European Teams. What these new teams need is a benefactor with deep pockets and also accepting that Super League and the RFL won't provide them without any financial support.

A number of new teams have been lost Toronto Wolfpack, West Wales Raiders, London Scholars / Gateshead / Newcastle Thunder / Paris Saint Germain / due to financial reasons. Super League offered them no financial support. Toulouse Olympic received no central funding, when they qualified for Super League. London Broncos are still surviving due to a benefactor, without him we would of folded a long time ago.

Super League as a competition does not welcome clubs old and new. They provide them with no support administratively or financially. So without a benefactor, we have to accept a development of a European competition, with more European players will be difficult. When these newly formed clubs needed financial help, Super League and the RFL did not offer any. The rest was history.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

I am now thoroughly convinced 'Coco' is a ChatGPT bot 

[bobbruce]

On 15/11/2023 at 12:19, sam4731 said:

With development in the Pacific being driven by the NRL, is it about time that SL takes responsibility for Europe. Could we have salary cap exemptions for Welsh, Scottish, Irish and French born players? IMG grading points for European born player numbers?

Just a couple of suggestions.

Is the improvement in pacific sides down to NRL development or simply because of the heritage players in the NRL. 

[Griff]

18 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Is the improvement in pacific sides down to NRL development or simply because of the heritage players in the NRL. 

Quite. How much development is actually done on the islands?

[Tommygilf]

On 17/11/2023 at 16:12, hunsletgreenandgold said:

I am now thoroughly convinced 'Coco' is a ChatGPT bot 

Haha come on fess up, who set it up

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, bobbruce said:

Is the improvement in pacific sides down to NRL development or simply because of the heritage players in the NRL. 

It's entirely due to those heritage players. 

[The British Lion]

We (N.H. RL) Need a long term strategy, and it needs to be seen through.

My hope would be IMG (Like or loathe them right now) insist on:

1. Catalans and Toulouse to be in SL.

- Allow them both to have 'full' salary cap exemption on any French born players in their starting match day squads, that play regularly in the first team for more than 50% of the season.

 

2. London Broncos

- Same as above for any London born players.

3. For Wales, Scotland and Ireland.

- re-employ development officers dedicated to these countries, get well into schools and grown amateur level clubs.

Allow English SL clubs again full salary cap dispensation on any players from these countries brought through their development pathways, and as above, they must be playing more than 50% first team games a season.

In the meantime, IMG push and promote capital teams from eg Dublin, Cardiff, North Wales, Edinburgh to grow over the next 10 years to a place where they are capable of being a sustainable SL club. 10 years of SL development of players as above may see SL standard players then able to mostly fill each team. And, perhaps we have a reasonably competyitive Home nations + France championship to go for every season.

You have to start somewhere, with the end in mind. 10 years of investment. 

This is all vision and little detail/finance I appreciate. But, RFL must do something to 'lead' the game forward. 

Continue to do the same thing, and youll always get what you've got.

Beyond the above, Europe needs a different approach likely, or, you assign each top SL club with a 'nation' to be responsible for developing through its ranks as a partner. I.e. 

Wales and Warrington

Scotland and Hull

Ireland and Wigan

Spain and Catalans

Serbia and Saints

etc etc....but this one is probably a bit far fetched.

[Harry Stottle]

Simple question, what are the FFR doing to promote the game and develop home grown players, honest Question.

Is the talent there in France for two SL teams? Catalan have been in SL for 17 seasons and look at last years squad 10 first choice player's overseas to France.

I honestly don't get this It is up to the RFL to develop the game in Europe, if we were a sport with the wealth of the NRL then I would say get on with it, but if we do have any spare cash then spend it at home in developing the community game and getting more kids playing OVER HERE, that should be our No1 priority, I have spent a long time in the amateur/community game (now just as a spectator) and it really pulls on the heartstrings to witness the steady decline it has had over the years and is still suffering. People say there is so many different things to do and playing sport is not up there any more and especially collision/contact sports such as RL, but how does that differ in other countries will they not have the same attitude?

Charity begins at home, sort ourselves out first and foremost.

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, The British Lion said:

You have to start somewhere, with the end in mind. 10 years of investment. 

On another thread there is mention of the Rugby Football League coaching courses I attended one in the first season in 1984, and I thought then now that we have a proper structure in place we can look forward to getting the better of our antipodean friends in the not to distant future, here we are 40 years on and still to get to the top, your suggestion of 10 years is nowhere near enough and especially so in the relative virgin territories you mention, but I applaud your enthusiasm I once shared it.

[Tommygilf]

29 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Charity begins at home, sort ourselves out first and foremost

We've tried that, now we have a sports consultancy having to tell us to do things that were considered basics 20 years ago and far from the top nations but Samoa have turned down touring England...

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

We've tried that, now we have a sports consultancy having to tell us to do things that were considered basics 20 years ago and far from the top nations but Samoa have turned down touring England...

We will differ on the quality of the advice we have received up to now from the sports consultancy company. 

So what about the rest of the mail, re how we have fallen backwards in the promotion, recruiting and sustainability of the community game in the last 20 years you mention? 

Would you spend money on promoting the game overseas before sorting out ourselves firstly, we have not got money for both.

[Griff]

Just a bit of a side issue here but, as the Aussies are always whinging about our international development being much worse than theirs, I checked up on the home games that the Pacific nations have played recently.

Samoa - last home game   8th October 2016 v Fiji

Tonga - last home game   19th October 2007 v Fiji

Fiji     - last home game     13th November 2002 v England A

How many home born players have these countries ever had ?

[Lowdesert]

4 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Simple question, what are the FFR doing to promote the game and develop home grown players, honest Question.

Is the talent there in France for two SL teams? Catalan have been in SL for 17 seasons and look at last years squad 10 first choice player's overseas to France.

I honestly don't get this It is up to the RFL to develop the game in Europe, if we were a sport with the wealth of the NRL then I would say get on with it, but if we do have any spare cash then spend it at home in developing the community game and getting more kids playing OVER HERE, that should be our No1 priority, I have spent a long time in the amateur/community game (now just as a spectator) and it really pulls on the heartstrings to witness the steady decline it has had over the years and is still suffering. People say there is so many different things to do and playing sport is not up there any more and especially collision/contact sports such as RL, but how does that differ in other countries will they not have the same attitude?

Charity begins at home, sort ourselves out first and foremost.

simple google search answers your question.
https://www.ffr13.fr/

but you might have taken time to ask Bernal, Dezaria, Larroyer, Maria and Pelissier while they were playing for Leigh Harry 

 

 

[jim_57]

9 hours ago, Griff said:

Just a bit of a side issue here but, as the Aussies are always whinging about our international development being much worse than theirs, I checked up on the home games that the Pacific nations have played recently.

Samoa - last home game   8th October 2016 v Fiji

Tonga - last home game   19th October 2007 v Fiji

Fiji     - last home game     13th November 2002 v England A

How many home born players have these countries ever had ?

Fiji have had far more than the other 2.
Currently: Sivo, Ravalawa, Valemei, Montoya, Blake, Kikau, Kamikamica & Kautoga in the NRL. Qareqare, Lovodua, Vuniyayawa & Vulikijapani in SL.

They’ll reportedly host the Pacific Bowl next year so that drought should be broken.