2024 attendance thread

[dkw]

5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

 

I also think there is going to be a move to change the Cup format too which will guarantee home cup games in the near future. 

That's the only way I see it being viable.

I also think the only way the CC gets anywhere near back to good crowds is if the RFL subsidise ticket prices, say 50% discount on all tickets at all games.

[Tommygilf]

32 minutes ago, dkw said:

That's the only way I see it being viable.

I also think the only way the CC gets anywhere near back to good crowds is if the RFL subsidise ticket prices, say 50% discount on all tickets at all games.

I genuinely don't think price is the problem to be honest, we just don't have a massive culture of one off match ticket purchases, or latent unfulfilled demand. 

[GeordieSaint]

On 27/03/2024 at 09:13, Worzel said:

Only 300 spots in the East Stand that aren’t already taken by members? That’s nuts. Just shows it’s what people want to buy. Definitely needs extending.

Apologies if I have missed this. But are there plans to increase the capacity at Hull KR? 

[AB Knight]

2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

 

7108 

Over 15k literally a week before. If that doesn't show the impact of not being included on Season tickets I don't know what will.

That article has confused me, it seems very few journalists check what they’ve written these days: 

The 20-6 defeat saw Rhinos’ first four-figure attendance since 7,103 spectators saw them lose to Wigan Warriors in a Saturday afternoon tie in the sixth round of the Cup last May. In 2023 a crowd of just 5,112 watched as Leeds were beaten by Castleford Tigers at Headingley at the same stage of the competition.

 

[Tommygilf]

14 minutes ago, AB Knight said:

That article has confused me, it seems very few journalists check what they’ve written these days: 

The 20-6 defeat saw Rhinos’ first four-figure attendance since 7,103 spectators saw them lose to Wigan Warriors in a Saturday afternoon tie in the sixth round of the Cup last May. In 2023 a crowd of just 5,112 watched as Leeds were beaten by Castleford Tigers at Headingley at the same stage of the competition.

 

Should say 2022 for the Cas match

Regardless, the attendances speak for themselves.

[JonM]

45 793 at Suncorp for Brisbane Broncos vs NQ Cowboys

[Dave T]

3 hours ago, Eddie said:

Though they got 7k crowd worth of income in, whereas if it was on season tickets they’d have got a lot less. 

It doesn't have to be free. 

There is also a bigger picture at play here. I'm not sure how many season tickets Leeds sell (10k maybe?). That means that maybe 5k paid cash the week earlier. By making the games all pay they reduces the attractiveness and many people don't want to attend (I'm one of them), as you know it's gonna be flat as anything. 

You don't have to add full value onto St prices, banking that cash is worth it. 

[JM2010]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

I genuinely don't think price is the problem to be honest, we just don't have a massive culture of one off match ticket purchases, or latent unfulfilled demand. 

For me it’s just that the profile of the CC isn’t high. It would take a big marketing push to give it a big boost and create some interest. 

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

I genuinely don't think price is the problem to be honest, we just don't have a massive culture of one off match ticket purchases, or latent unfulfilled demand. 

There is evidence to back that theory. You only have to look at the play-off series of years gone by and the more often than not sub par crowd figures.

If the Challenge Cup is to remain a feature of the season, the competition needs to remain relevant. If I am not mistaken, the CC pre SL was played at the end of the league season and was the end of season showpiece feature match, where now the SL GF has taken that role and the Challenge Cup has become an event which culminates in the halfway through the obviously more relevant league season.

I like the idea of SL clubs joining the competition for the round of 16 teams and Magic Weekend hosting all 8 fixtures.

That would leave the RFL to work on making sure the QFs and SFs are events worthy of large crowds.

[Eddie]

3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I'm not sure how many members the Rhinos have currently, but between the larger attendance and higher (I believe) prices for the league game, it could be that it is not that much of a difference financially. Plus I'd wager corporate was significantly higher in the League match too.

Agreed, but they did bring more money in than they would have if the game had been free for season ticket holders. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, JM2010 said:

For me it’s just that the profile of the CC isn’t high. It would take a big marketing push to give it a big boost and create some interest. 

I do however think that those 15k that were at Headingley the week earlier are more than aware of the cup game 7 days later. 

[JonM]

53 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

There is evidence to back that theory. You only have to look at the play-off series of years gone by and the more often than not sub par crowd figures.

A point I've made many times on here. It's not the pricing or the competition structure. Arranging games at short notice means a significant chunk of the audience cannot go. A reasonable proportion of people with jobs or families or other commitments simply can't or won't be able to attend on a random day and time. League fixtures are there in the calendar months ahead and can be planned for. Cup games and play-offs aren't. We don't have too many postponed games these days, but when we do, the re-arranged games often suffer crowdwise for the reason.

[Hopie]

So that means Leeds had the highest announced attendance at this stage two years in a row.

Given it was already tried to give the first round in the cup as part of season tickets, and nobody from the business side of the game is pushing for it to return, I'd suggest the clubs are happier with the current model.

It is rubbish though that the crowds for any non-season ticket game are so poor. Largely down to the same old reasons, our core demographic, lack of marketing to anybody, let alone to new markets etc. I just see it as a lack of ambition, Leeds should be regularly selling out their league games and targeting Elland road for the odd event game where they sell more tickets than they could at Headingley, they have the best crowds but they really should be doing much better.

[JM2010]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I do however think that those 15k that were at Headingley the week earlier are more than aware of the cup game 7 days later. 

I don’t think it’s awareness it’s more about creating a buzz about the competition 

[M j M]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

Agreed, but they did bring more money in than they would have if the game had been free for season ticket holders. 

You'd bump up the cost of season tickets if these games were included though. So it wouldn't be a case of it being "free" to ST holders.

[Eddie]

4 hours ago, M j M said:

You'd bump up the cost of season tickets if these games were included though. So it wouldn't be a case of it being "free" to ST holders.

How could you do that with zero guaranteed cup games though? Well they could, but it would be a big gamble. 

[Eddie]

6 hours ago, Hopie said:

So that means Leeds had the highest announced attendance at this stage two years in a row.

Given it was already tried to give the first round in the cup as part of season tickets, and nobody from the business side of the game is pushing for it to return, I'd suggest the clubs are happier with the current model.

It is rubbish though that the crowds for any non-season ticket game are so poor. Largely down to the same old reasons, our core demographic, lack of marketing to anybody, let alone to new markets etc. I just see it as a lack of ambition, Leeds should be regularly selling out their league games and targeting Elland road for the odd event game where they sell more tickets than they could at Headingley, they have the best crowds but they really should be doing much better.

Why should they be doing much better, they already have tremendous crowds, particularly considering their lack of success lately. This is rugby league not football. 

[Eddie]

7 hours ago, JonM said:

A point I've made many times on here. It's not the pricing or the competition structure. Arranging games at short notice means a significant chunk of the audience cannot go. A reasonable proportion of people with jobs or families or other commitments simply can't or won't be able to attend on a random day and time. League fixtures are there in the calendar months ahead and can be planned for. Cup games and play-offs aren't. We don't have too many postponed games these days, but when we do, the re-arranged games often suffer crowdwise for the reason.

I understand why you’re saying that but it clearly isn’t the case in FA cup replays and never has been, in football short notice isn’t a problem so in theory it shouldn’t be in RL either. 

[JonM]

58 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I understand why you’re saying that but it clearly isn’t the case in FA cup replays and never has been, in football short notice isn’t a problem so in theory it shouldn’t be in RL either. 

Football has a far bigger pool of potential supporters. If you have 50% of fans who can't make it, there's plenty more to replace them. We don't have that. And even there, cup games are not as well supported as regular league fixtures.

[Hopie]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Why should they be doing much better, they already have tremendous crowds, particularly considering their lack of success lately. This is rugby league not football. 

Because their crowds were significantly better 20 years ago before they'd won a title, they've won many since and are based in a large city with a strong identity, and have improved the facilities in the ground in that time, they should be looking to build year on year.

Tremendous? Only when compared to smaller clubs who they should be streets ahead of.

[JonM]

Saints v Wigan 17 980

Widnes v Swinton 2 751

Doncaster v Sheffield 1 717

Edited March 30 by JonM

[Damien]

Another great Doncaster attendance:

 

[Sports Prophet]

11 hours ago, JonM said:

A point I've made many times on here. It's not the pricing or the competition structure. Arranging games at short notice means a significant chunk of the audience cannot go. A reasonable proportion of people with jobs or families or other commitments simply can't or won't be able to attend on a random day and time. League fixtures are there in the calendar months ahead and can be planned for. Cup games and play-offs aren't. We don't have too many postponed games these days, but when we do, the re-arranged games often suffer crowdwise for the reason.

Whilst we both agree the evidence is there, I don’t think we necessarily see eye to eye for the reasons why the crowds are so dismal. I have my suspicions, but no evidence to support them.

I think the RFL would be wise to conduct a survey of fans at SL matches why they do or don’t attend Challenge Cup ties. There is obviously a downturn of attendees, maybe the season ticket holders are not the right target for Challenge Cup fixtures at all. Maybe the RFL will learn the target market should be locals who usually don’t attend fixtures. Locals who are likely to have availability with weeks notice but open to attending a “special event”.

[M j M]

5 hours ago, Hopie said:

Because their crowds were significantly better 20 years ago before they'd won a title,

It's not really important but to be factual Leeds' 2003 average SL attendance at Headingley was 12,846. The club finished third and that included 23,000 for the Bradford game. In 2023 the equivalent was 13,805 when they finished eighth.

Edited March 30 by M j M

[Hopie]

3 hours ago, M j M said:

It's not really important but to be factual Leeds' 2003 average SL attendance at Headingley was 12,846. The club finished third and that included 23,000 for the Bradford game. In 2023 the equivalent was 13,805 when they finished eighth.

I was referring to 2004, which I guess stretches the "before" part of my statement, but still technically true as the grand final wasn't until after the 16000+ season average was finished. Around the time there was marketing around "Britain's best supported rugby club" (which I think might have been a bit of a fudge because it probably included the Tykes crowds to beat Leicester tigers) it seemed a point of pride, and it would be nice to see them get back to that level.
https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/teams/leeds-rhinos/seasons.html