The Players Are Revolting

[Harry Stottle]

Just now, JohnM said:

Not to mention BSE and Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease,  motorcycle helmets, leaded vs unleaded petrol.

There is a chance of dying when getting behind the wheel of a car, let's ban it immediately.

[gingerjon]

6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I answered your question, please answer mine.

It’s relevant to how I’ll answer. Did you ever believe in the link between smoking and lung cancer?

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, phiggins said:

But do they want to decide on safety? Or do they want the chance to have an input on what some other impacts might be, and ask questions at an early stage.

 

ON reflection, to go back to this part of your post, I agree with this and your post contains some good points that I agree with. 

Where the value of speaking to players comes in is around trying to understand the root cause of why players carry out high tackles, when they have always been illegal in Rugby League. It would be good to understand whether Liam Watts feels that he regularly gets banned for high tackles because he is fatigued, or is always carrying injuries, or the 10m rule, or the pace of the game, or the coaching etc - I think your point is valid on this - we could come to the conclusion that Watts makes these high tackles because of some of the above reasons, and as you say, that could lead us to the conclusion that reduced games, more substitutions, slowing the game down etc are the way to go. I'd like to think that these things have been reviewed, discussed and considered. As part of any comprehensive review it does feel like these are important things to consider - I agree with you on that.

It is however important to take any feedback in the context of who would be providing it and why and giving it the appropriate weighting.

If we keep this conversation to dangerous high tackles, my personal opinion, not based on science is that we see these regularly for a few key reasons:

1 - The delta between legal (shoulders) and dangerous/high (neck/head) is really small, and players aiming for a fair tackle can be caught out by the fact that the ball carrier moves and doesn't remain at a consistent height. But this isn't new news.

2 - The punishments haven't been severe enough. Even this weekend, whilst the Hull lad didn't make full on contact, it was an act of pure thuggery, a swinging arm on a prone player. That was a choice, not fatigue.

3 - Culture. Naturally the game has a macho element to it, people still bemoan the loss of the shoulder charge, even though they often led to head contact or severe whiplash, but people still celebrate these hits, including many players when looking at social media.

I dont think it is a massive surprise that they have landed where they have in terms of actions. Sure they can do all the great things with medical care, HIA's etc. but by lowering the tackle height limit by a decent amount, it makes the risk of head contact much lower.

And when they do go wrong, we punish harder as a deterrent.

Of course there can be unintended consequences, tacklers sharing the same space etc. but at least the defence there is that it is accidental contact and that is where the protocols come into play. I think it makes sense that they try and stamp out illegal play first.

I understand why people don't like it, the game is changing, but if the game has decided it has to, then this seems like a sensible route to go down to me. I do also think there are conversations to be had around fatigue etc. but when we see Morley getting sent off after 11 seconds it does rather support the other points as being bigger issues

[RigbyLuger]

It's a conspiracy against Liam Watts.

https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/ryan-roebuck-1?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socpledgemobile&utm_content=ryan-roebuck-1&utm_campaign=post-pledge-mobile&utm_term=9a4Gdp3j9&fbclid=IwAR0TMLMFhVeISstnUrdD-pYRgSFIds9Wvwem_BDIJcj6zOZ9tSZ8I9VsZBU_aem_Ad__wP8TONi4wGZZy0RWbRneWDyksfWGm7JAETkkMZ-rpGwo3HzBzLIaKutbdT8D9YE

The players would do well to come out and say this sort of thing is nonsense while they're at it.

[JohnM]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

There is a chance of dying when getting behind the wheel of a car, let's ban it immediately.

That shows the weakness of your position. Over the years, action has been taken  to reduce the consequences of driving incidents through vehicle design, road improvement, various forms of legislation (MoT tests, drink/drug driving ), tougher driving tests, penalties, especially in the first two years after passing your test, and retraining of offenders.  It is my recollection that many of these improvements have been opposed by the "common sense" brigade. You are bound to recall the furore when seat belts were made compulsory. ( They don't work, I'll get trapped in the car if there's an accident, its against my human rights, I know the risks, etc)

In 1966, there were 7,985 road deaths. In 2022, there were 1,700, despite a huge increase in vehicle numbers and miles driven. 

Why people object to laws that save lives - BBC Future

 

Edited February 22 by JohnM
Change 1996 to 1966

[JohnM]

14 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

It's a conspiracy against Liam Watts.

https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/ryan-roebuck-1?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socpledgemobile&utm_content=ryan-roebuck-1&utm_campaign=post-pledge-mobile&utm_term=9a4Gdp3j9&fbclid=IwAR0TMLMFhVeISstnUrdD-pYRgSFIds9Wvwem_BDIJcj6zOZ9tSZ8I9VsZBU_aem_Ad__wP8TONi4wGZZy0RWbRneWDyksfWGm7JAETkkMZ-rpGwo3HzBzLIaKutbdT8D9YE

The players would do well to come out and say this sort of thing is nonsense while they're at it.

I've asked for a translation into English. Weʼre raising £750 to all being disgusted of recent events and in-spite of the RFL - let’s us show solidarity to our club. And especially to Liam Watts

[Kayakman]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

How are you doing K'man, still rounding up the 'Beavers', as they say 'you can't keep a good man down'!

Did you take the sojourn you were planning back to the old country, must say I do miss our banter it was good back then, said to say the General Rugby platform of this forum is more political than the political platform, there is as much drivel than from a 'gaggle' of politicians, all the fun seems to be leaving the game in my opinion it is no longer the sport I have been involved in known and loved for a very long time but c'est la vie let's see were it takes us.

The player's are not liking what they are seeing and observing from the match day officials and the judgements of the Match Revue Panel at present, and I think another consideration of theirs is how it will get compounded with even more fines and suspensions when the 'armpit' rule comes in next year, I hope the players continue with their grievances in whatever form they see fit not give in and common sense prevails.

Take care mate.

Still spending lots of time in the Bush with the Beavers Harry...no pun intended.  Got alot of logging on the go shortly, lots of work but looking forwards to it once spring sets in.....bugs could be bad though. Haven't been back to the Old Country but trying to fit a trip in; need to have a beer at a Hunslet game to read my plaque on the clubhouse wall; good people and folk in Hunslet.

Ya the politics are creeping into everything these days...the times they are a changing.  Certainly the constant tinkering with the rules has driven some of the fun  out of the game.   The new changes just add to that.  I am against high tackles and any cheap shots or intent to injure...any lover of rugby is but I see nothing wrong with an armpit tackle.  In the old days a good fight could have settled the business right there but the coddlers and adamant 'we need a new law' folk have ruined that so we get all the cheapness......same thing happened in hockey when they brought in the instigator rule; dangerous stickwork increased dramatically.

Keep the faith Harry...rugby league is blessed to have such a great and loyal spirit in the game.   Enjoy those full blossomed reds this year.  I hate the new Leigh jerseys.

[Simon Hall]

12 minutes ago, JohnM said:

I've asked for a translation into English. Weʼre raising £750 to all being disgusted of recent events and in-spite of the RFL - let’s us show solidarity to our club. And especially to Liam Watts

I can't believe how many imbeciles have been prepared to part with their hard claimed money. £1700 and counting!

AND Cas themselves pushed it yesterday on Twitter, saying anything left over would pay the other lads fine as well. They have since deleted it. 

 

 

[RP London]

55 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

There is a chance of dying when getting behind the wheel of a car, let's ban it immediately.

No that would be ludicrous.. but seat belts compulsory in the back and front (I remember when cars didnt have them in the back and dont think they were mandatory in the front).. Massive safety inspections and things like crumple zones and roll bars etc.. changes in road lay outs to make it safer, drink/drug drive limits etc etc.. its becuase we learn from research and change things that are important and useful to everyday life to be safer and minimise risk.. 

there are plenty of people wanting to ban rugby, but the aim is to make it safer and take away some of the risk that is proven to have long term potential problems (not in everybody but same as smoking related illnesses did not kill every smoker). 

[Dave T]

24 minutes ago, Simon Hall said:

I can't believe how many imbeciles have been prepared to part with their hard claimed money. £1700 and counting!

AND Cas themselves pushed it yesterday on Twitter, saying anything left over would pay the other lads fine as well. They have since deleted it. 

 

 

Jesus Christ.

[Click]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Jesus Christ.

I expect nothing less from clubs at the moment. 

Leigh's response to Hardaker and now this from Cas.

[LeeF]

31 minutes ago, Simon Hall said:

I can't believe how many imbeciles have been prepared to part with their hard claimed money. £1700 and counting!

AND Cas themselves pushed it yesterday on Twitter, saying anything left over would pay the other lads fine as well. They have since deleted it. 

 

 

I would assume that the RFL will have to charge the Club for that tweet and rightly should 

Edited February 22 by LeeF

[LeeF]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Jesus Christ.

It’s ok he got NFA’d as there was mitigation from the ball carrier’s actions

[RP London]

1 minute ago, LeeF said:

It’s ok he got NFA’d as there was mitigation from the ball carrier’s actions

yeah but he got crucified for it by the fans... 

 

 

 

 

oooh a coat

[dkw]

1 hour ago, JohnM said:

That shows the weakness of your position. Over the years, action has been taken  to reduce the consequences of driving incidents through vehicle design, road improvement, various forms of legislation (MoT tests, drink/drug driving ), tougher driving tests, penalties, especially in the first two years after passing your test, and retraining of offenders.  It is my recollection that many of these improvements have been opposed by the "common sense" brigade. You are bound to recall the furore when seat belts were made compulsory. ( They don't work, I'll get trapped in the car if there's an accident, its against my human rights, I know the risks, etc)

In 1996, there were 7,985 road deaths. In 2022, there were 1,700, despite a huge increase in vehicle numbers and miles driven. 

Why people object to laws that save lives - BBC Future

 

Its quite possibly the most moronic of arguments, driving is one of the most regulated things we do for gods sake, and as you say is constantly advancing safety requirements in every way.

[Dave T]

The details now appear on the RFL site. When I say details, I may be using the wrong word. I looked at the Jordan Crowther ban details, as I assumed that he can't have been banned for the sin-binning incident, and tbh, I have no idea - as the notes simply say "Other Contrary Behaviour - Grade C 1 match Ban" - no other details are given, no clock time or description of the incident. They may as well not bother tbh.

Edit, in fact the notes from the hearing cases are not on at all.

Edited February 22 by Dave T

[meast]

23 hours ago, jacksy said:

Go back to 5m. Take away the the big run ups and the mini car crash collisions. 

 

Or stop players hitting others in the head?

[dkw]

55 minutes ago, Simon Hall said:

I can't believe how many imbeciles have been prepared to part with their hard claimed money. £1700 and counting!

AND Cas themselves pushed it yesterday on Twitter, saying anything left over would pay the other lads fine as well. They have since deleted it. 

 

 

What a bunch of idiots.

[meast]

1 hour ago, RigbyLuger said:

It's a conspiracy against Liam Watts.

https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/ryan-roebuck-1?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socpledgemobile&utm_content=ryan-roebuck-1&utm_campaign=post-pledge-mobile&utm_term=9a4Gdp3j9&fbclid=IwAR0TMLMFhVeISstnUrdD-pYRgSFIds9Wvwem_BDIJcj6zOZ9tSZ8I9VsZBU_aem_Ad__wP8TONi4wGZZy0RWbRneWDyksfWGm7JAETkkMZ-rpGwo3HzBzLIaKutbdT8D9YE

The players would do well to come out and say this sort of thing is nonsense while they're at it.

That's embarrassing!

[Dave T]

It really could be an expensive season for those Cas fans. Looking at last season, Liam Watts received 7 charges, banned in total for 8 of their matches.

[Dave T]

32 minutes ago, LeeF said:

It’s ok he got NFA’d as there was mitigation from the ball carrier’s actions

 

30 minutes ago, RP London said:

yeah but he got crucified for it by the fans... 

 

 

 

 

oooh a coat

That's enough from you two today eh?

[Click]

13 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It really could be an expensive season for those Cas fans. Looking at last season, Liam Watts received 7 charges, banned in total for 8 of their matches.

Yeah, but he's being set up as a target..

[Dave T]

Just now, Click said:

Yeah, but he's being set up as a target..

I mean, they could be right, poor guy getting charged 7 times last year, and 6 in 2022. Maybe he is the victim?

[Click]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I mean, they could be right, poor guy getting charged 7 times last year, and 6 in 2022. Maybe he is the victim?

I can not come to any other conclusion.

[StandOffHalf]

16 hours ago, LeytherRob said:

Fozzard I find particularly galling, I was in hospitality with him at a Leigh match early 2020 just before covid hit and he took a great amount of pleasure in regaling the table with stories of all kinds of dodgy stuff he'd get away with on the pitch.

The mummified arm.