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Posted
1 minute ago, Barley Mow said:

I'm not sure how 'severe' the drop between clubs was previously, the figures discussed on some club sections of the forum were between approx £150,000 and £85,000 for the year for Championship clubs depending on IMG ranking and between £33,000 and £18,000 for League 1 clubs.

I imagine all have had funding cuts over the last few years.

Cheers.

God, we really do need that injection of cash from somewhere.

  • Like 1

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)


Posted
9 hours ago, Worzel said:

 

I'm not missing that point. I think it doesn't have the weight you think it does.

  • Toulouse were a very small way off making the cut this time. They don't have 2 years of Super League "points" counting towards their score. 
  • London have missed the cut twice, despite having Super League years in their 3 year period. 
  • Super League expanded to 14 clubs during 'licensing', after Hull KR's 2006 promotion season, so we'd have got in during that era even if we never made the Top 12. That can happen again. 

Hull KR would have, and other teams still can, joined the league in a reasonable time frame if the club had invested in the right areas under an IMG model. Hudgell has demonstrated across many decades that he is capable of doing that. Some clubs I agree may not be able to qualify now, but that's because they don't yet offer anything additional to the comp... and frankly they weren't able to qualify through P&R before either!

I think Toulouse had 1 year of SL status included in their points which will drop off this next year won't it?

London are a really bad example to use because despite been in a situation where they were a basket case club and miles off on the points scoring, just one season in SL and they were nearly able to double their score. If anything that just highlights the advantages of being in SL.

Ive said it a million times and I am yet to be convinced otherwise, there is not a chance in hell that SL expands to 14 teams. No way SL clubs vote to drop their funding, I get the argument that if teams improve then their earnings should go up but a couple have shown you can simple fiddle with the books to gain enough points to be an A grade club or close. IMG would have to significantly raise the bar to stop teams becoming comfortable with doing the bare minimum. Unfortunatley the result of that is that it will make it even harder for Championship teams to gain SL status. 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

I think Toulouse had 1 year of SL status included in their points which will drop off this next year won't it?

London are a really bad example to use because despite been in a situation where they were a basket case club and miles off on the points scoring, just one season in SL and they were nearly able to double their score. If anything that just highlights the advantages of being in SL.

Ive said it a million times and I am yet to be convinced otherwise, there is not a chance in hell that SL expands to 14 teams. No way SL clubs vote to drop their funding, I get the argument that if teams improve then their earnings should go up but a couple have shown you can simple fiddle with the books to gain enough points to be an A grade club or close. IMG would have to significantly raise the bar to stop teams becoming comfortable with doing the bare minimum. Unfortunatley the result of that is that it will make it even harder for Championship teams to gain SL status. 

Totally understand where you are coming from on the 14 teams. But the argument on it is that you go to it only when there are 14 strong teams and IF that were the case the game would be in a much stronger position at which point you wouldn't be voting for a cut in funding, by adding those 2 you could be increasing the pot that was coming in to increase funding. 

Now whether you think that will ever happen is a different matter and I can understand the scepticism on that. It's just that the argument does not revolve around voting to cut their funding, that would mean we wouldn't have 14 A grade clubs so that proposition would not be put to the clubs.. it would only be a question if we were growing because we only get there with these strong clubs etc etc..

Edited by RP London
  • Like 1
Posted
1 hour ago, Barley Mow said:

I'm not sure how 'severe' the drop between clubs was previously, the figures discussed on some club sections of the forum were between approx £150,000 and £85,000 for the year for Championship clubs depending on IMG ranking and between £33,000 and £18,000 for League 1 clubs.

I imagine all have had funding cuts over the last few years.

Under the 8s the gap was ludicrous. Top Championship got around £800k, dropping away to over £400k for 4th (and therefore in the middle 8s), bottom got £125k. League 1 clubs were getting £75k p.a., meaning League 1 as a whole was getting £1.5 million a year. 

Such brilliant investment of those funds has brought the sport on massively...

Posted
12 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Under the 8s the gap was ludicrous. Top Championship got around £800k, dropping away to over £400k for 4th (and therefore in the middle 8s), bottom got £125k. League 1 clubs were getting £75k p.a., meaning League 1 as a whole was getting £1.5 million a year. 

Such brilliant investment of those funds has brought the sport on massively...

And obviously SL clubs invested many more millions brilliantly so that Sky decided to increase the amount,Oh hang on...

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Posted

Ok I’m no mathematician but had wakey spent the previous 2 seasons in mid table championship on say 1500 crowds playing out of a dilapidated stadium would they have scored enough points for promotion 

sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

Posted
43 minutes ago, Pen-Y-Bont Crusader said:

2014 league 1 clubs received 75k each. 

Yes. I remember it being discussed on here that we’d gone from £75k to £15k last year.

  • Like 1

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Posted
53 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Yes. I remember it being discussed on here that we’d gone from £75k to £15k last year.

All part of the master plan

sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

Posted
2 hours ago, DEANO said:

Ok I’m no mathematician but had wakey spent the previous 2 seasons in mid table championship on say 1500 crowds playing out of a dilapidated stadium would they have scored enough points for promotion 

Of course they wouldn't, but if they had three parallel years to 2024 then they would.

If all SL clubs are 14.5 points or above then it would be a struggle for championship clubs, but not impossible. 

Posted
9 hours ago, up the robins said:

Sorry @Worzel ive got to disagree with you!  had promotion/relegation being replaced before we made super league we would never of being in a position to get anywhere near a b+ grading never mind a A.

Firstly the people up top would never have wanted two teams from Hull in the top league. how many times did we hear both clubs should merge? Hull can't sustain two teams, we need to focus on expanding the game not keeping it in one area.

We would never of been in a position to upgrade our stadium with out our stint in the top flight, Neil had being trying unsuccessfully for years to get outside investment in the club not achievable till we was in the top flight. 

Let's not kid ourselves Neil had being actively looking at pulling out of rovers for a few years till this investment come along (I'm so pleased he did stick around and immensely grateful to him, but wouldn't of blamed him for pulling out in those tough days.)

I'm not anti IMG and think kicking teams up the bum with a carrot dangling in front of them to improve on and off the field is great but taking the dream away from teams by not allowing them to build the way we did is just not fair.

We have proven the naysayers wrong and proven Hull can support two top flight teams and we aren't the only ones look at what Leigh have achieved for a small borough of Wigan, clubs like KR and Leigh were not supposed to be able to get the big crowds and look how a successful run in the championship has revitalised the fan base in Wakefield.

I think the distribution of funding should have being the carrot that encouraged clubs to improve on and off the field via the grading system with potential for more central funding going to a championship club than a super league club if there grade was higher and seen to be a proactive club in development on and off the field, I would also have put in a minimum standards clause for promotion to encourage teams to develop.

Super League went to 14 clubs within about 2 years of us being promoted. Which two sides do you think would have been added before a well-funded, top of the Championship Hull KR side? 

You know the answer: None.

People who don’t like the IMG model just like to pretend it is pulling the drawbridge up, when it isn’t. Featherstone, Oldham, Halifax, Keighley, Bradford etc etc haven’t got into Super League under P&R so the idea they’re suddenly locked out when they had a better chance before is absolutely hilarious to be honest 🙄🤣🤣🤣

Posted
6 minutes ago, Worzel said:

Super League went to 14 clubs within about 2 years of us being promoted. Which two sides do you think would have been added before a well-funded, top of the Championship Hull KR side? 

You know the answer: None.

People who don’t like the IMG model just like to pretend it is pulling the drawbridge up, when it isn’t. Featherstone, Oldham, Halifax, Keighley, Bradford etc etc haven’t got into Super League under P&R so the idea they’re suddenly locked out when they had a better chance before is absolutely hilarious to be honest 🙄🤣🤣🤣

loll. If you say so. At least they had something to strive for

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sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

Posted
13 minutes ago, PREPOSTEROUS said:

Of course they wouldn't, but if they had three parallel years to 2024 then they would.

If all SL clubs are 14.5 points or above then it would be a struggle for championship clubs, but not impossible. 

So what your saying is they would have had to win the championship and 1895 cup 3 times in a row to gain promotion?

sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

Posted
Just now, DEANO said:

So what your saying is they would have had to win the championship and 1895 cup 3 times in a row to gain promotion?

... and get 5k plus crowds, decent revenue stream and supporter engagement,  essentially making sure they are a stronger club to deal with playing at a higher level and avoid being a yo yo. 

 

  • Like 1
Posted
2 minutes ago, PREPOSTEROUS said:

... and get 5k plus crowds, decent revenue stream and supporter engagement,  essentially making sure they are a stronger club to deal with playing at a higher level and avoid being a yo yo. 

 

Can you imagine if an investor stumped up a load of cash to achieve your goals and performance and crowds dipped in the 3rd year as other clubs got stronger. Doesn’t make sound business sense to me

sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

Posted
7 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Can you imagine if an investor stumped up a load of cash to achieve your goals and performance and crowds dipped in the 3rd year as other clubs got stronger. Doesn’t make sound business sense to me

Ultimately it's encouraging owners to build strong clubs not just teams.

  • Like 3
Posted
2 minutes ago, PREPOSTEROUS said:

Ultimately it's encouraging owners to build strong clubs not just teams.

Ultimately you can only do it if your already in super league!!!!!

  • Like 1

sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

Posted
3 hours ago, Agbrigg said:

Well I have heard a few whispers in certain areas that a 14 team SL is on the cards for next season. Only rumours at this stage but you never know.

Won’t be next season, the fixtures are already out. Doubt it will be 2026 either. Maybe 2027, if negotiations for the next TV deal go well. 

Posted
9 minutes ago, phiggins said:

Won’t be next season, the fixtures are already out. Doubt it will be 2026 either. Maybe 2027, if negotiations for the next TV deal go well. 

And who will be our negotiators?

Posted
2 hours ago, gittinsfan said:

And obviously SL clubs invested many more millions brilliantly so that Sky decided to increase the amount,Oh hang on...

Yeah, they invested it in the lower 2 professional tiers, to the tune of nearly £5 million a year. Was a great ROI! 👍

  • Like 1
Posted
12 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Yeah, they invested it in the lower 2 professional tiers, to the tune of nearly £5 million a year. Was a great ROI! 👍

Yes and how many millions were invested in SL clubs,and look where we are now.

  • Like 1
Posted
9 hours ago, gittinsfan said:

Yes and how many millions were invested in SL clubs,and look where we are now.

Yeah, it is almost like we need a new system to force all clubs to invest more sustainably ......

 

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Posted
10 hours ago, phiggins said:

Won’t be next season, the fixtures are already out. Doubt it will be 2026 either. Maybe 2027, if negotiations for the next TV deal go well. 

Yes obviously, we are about to commence  this season(2025). Its 2026 so I hear. One of the driving factors is loop fixtures many clubs want them abolished.

Posted
12 hours ago, Worzel said:

People who don’t like the IMG model just like to pretend it is pulling the drawbridge up, when it isn’t. Featherstone, Oldham, Halifax, Keighley, Bradford etc etc haven’t got into Super League under P&R so the idea they’re suddenly locked out when they had a better chance before is absolutely hilarious to be honest 🙄🤣🤣🤣

But just like with Wakefield, circumstances change, Bradford and Oldham now have money men who legitimatley could put a team on the field to win promotion on the field. 

I know you say all those teams now have a better chance of promotion now than they would under P & R but how do you come to that conclusion? As a Fax fan I could be a billionaire and could not get Fax in to SL under the IMG gradings while playing at the Shay. Now throw in P & R and there is a good chance I get them in next season. As above circumstances change and like musical chairs its all about who is sitting in the chairs when the music stops. Fax, Fev, and Sheffield just so happened to win the competition when there was no P & R, who is to say where any of them would be now if things were different. 

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