War of the Roses (Again)

[Dave T]

11 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Looks like they'll just have to be called North West RL and include Cumbria...

(I'm being facetious obviously)

On this point - if you were going to work with an agency to create a new brand, you would probably be more likely to go with something like this. See Northern Superchargers in The Hundred (not pushing that as a good brand btw!), or Southern Brave in that same comp.

There may be an argument that if you were going to look to create something new and fresh to fill this space that you wouldn't try and play on the old fashioned War of the Roses piece and you'd use modern names that maybe don't focus on the place names, particularly when one of those place names is largely irrelevant. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

East Vs West?

See my response to Wellsy - maybe the game does need to be more creative if it was to play in this space and create rep teams.

[Griff]

10 hours ago, JM2010 said:

Would it work better if they were split into West Yorkshire, East Yorkshire, Greater Manchester, Merseyside/Cheshire, Cumbria, London/SE, N Wales, S Wales?Split into 2 tiers

[sigh]

No.

[jacksy]

I wish we still had the Premiership and the County Cups. More honours to go for.

[Hopie]

54 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The point isn't really about LA boundaries or geeky discussions like that - it's more a point that maybe a reason why this doesn't grip people, is that it doesn't really mean much to people. 

If we had never ever had Lancs v Yorks, if you think about the proposal, it is bizarre. If your objective was to create an event, create training camps for players to step up into rep squads, and to try and create commercial value, I don;t think anyone in the world would come up with Lancs v Yorks - because quite frankly, it's weird to use Lancashire as any kind of rep team here. 

People raising the fact that the NW RL teams are not in Lancashire and haven't been for 50 years isn't some pedantic silly argument - it's quite a key reason as to why there just isn't any real kind of hook in for fans this side of the Pennines imo.

To the extent that any place can exist (lines on a map are a human construction) Lancashire exists, the boundaries never changed. All I see here is another version of "I am not interested in this" and that is subjective so it is not something to be countered or argued about. 
However, your point about if we had never had it we wouldn't invent it, we have had it and we do have it. The "Origin" academy series is an ongoing concern, the pathway is there and the history exists, both of which could be used to build interest with certain markets. As has already pointed out, some people will support the fixture, some won't and there will be lots of reasons for both. I think this option has more benefits than the current approach, and is actually feasible, and I have not seen a better option that is actually feasible. 

[Griff]

12 minutes ago, jacksy said:

I wish we still had the Premiership and the County Cups. More honours to go for.

We already play too many games.   We bring in rules to restrict players' time on the field and then increase the number of league games we play.  We don't need more games and especially not for the best players.

[Damien]

18 minutes ago, jacksy said:

I wish we still had the Premiership and the County Cups. More honours to go for.

The Premiership essentially morphed into the Grand Final and play offs, obviously with the Champions tag elevating it.

County Cups have had their day and there simply aren't enough quality teams to make them worthwhile. We are struggling enough with the Challenge Cup on that front.

Edited April 23 by Damien

[Anita Bath]

How did we ever manage 34 game league season, challenge, county, john player, bbc floodlit cups plus play offs. Regular internationals, tour games and county championships as well. And players held down full time jobs too.

 

[Damien]

12 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

How did we ever manage 34 game league season, challenge, county, john player, bbc floodlit cups plus play offs. Regular internationals, tour games and county championships as well. And players held down full time jobs too.

By being part time with far less training and games at a far lower intensity. 

[JM2010]

53 minutes ago, Griff said:

[sigh]

No.

Don’t be a d!*k

[gingerjon]

19 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

How did we ever manage 34 game league season, challenge, county, john player, bbc floodlit cups plus play offs. Regular internationals, tour games and county championships as well. And players held down full time jobs too.

 

Was this when the sport went bankrupt, players had long term unsupported injuries in their retirement, and we still had to fill our squads by poaching lads from union?

[Tommygilf]

I'd award the county cup for Yorkshire and Lancashire to the clubs that finish highest in the regular season from those areas.

[17 stone giant]

Slightly off topic, but are the Aussies missing a trick by playing their State of Origin on a Wednesday instead of a Saturday?

Would they not have a better chance of getting a global audience if they moved it?

I just looked up the dates, but it's 1105am on three Wednesdays, so I didn't bother adding it to my calendar. Whereas I would definitely watch it if it was on a Saturday.

I'm sure they have their own reasons, but I wonder if in future they'll consider playing it at the weekend.

[Anita Bath]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

By being part time with far less training and games at a far lower intensity. 

But managed to beat the Aussies.

[Anita Bath]

15 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

Slightly off topic, but are the Aussies missing a trick by playing their State of Origin on a Wednesday instead of a Saturday?

Would they not have a better chance of getting a global audience if they moved it?

I just looked up the dates, but it's 1105am on three Wednesdays, so I didn't bother adding it to my calendar. Whereas I would definitely watch it if it was on a Saturday.

I'm sure they have their own reasons, but I wonder if in future they'll consider playing it at the weekend.

They played one of the games at the weekend for a few years but it entailed cancelling the entire NRL programme. From a personal point of view it didnt seem to have the same aura as the midweek blockbusters.

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

But managed to beat the Aussies.

You'll note that once the Aussies worked out how to be actually fit professionals and not just lumps of meat to be hacked around a park that that stopped happening.

[gingerjon]

18 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

Would they not have a better chance of getting a global audience if they moved it?

The global audience would stand a good chance of being smaller than the domestic so why bother?

[Anita Bath]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Was this when the sport went bankrupt, players had long term unsupported injuries in their retirement, and we still had to fill our squads by poaching lads from union?

The players currently behind legal action for long term impacts of injuries are from a later era. The reason we no longer ‘poach’ union players is because we cant afford them since union went openly professional.

[Damien]

14 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

But managed to beat the Aussies.

And the same applied to the Aussies.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Hopie said:

To the extent that any place can exist (lines on a map are a human construction) Lancashire exists, the boundaries never changed. All I see here is another version of "I am not interested in this" and that is subjective so it is not something to be countered or argued about. 
However, your point about if we had never had it we wouldn't invent it, we have had it and we do have it. The "Origin" academy series is an ongoing concern, the pathway is there and the history exists, both of which could be used to build interest with certain markets. As has already pointed out, some people will support the fixture, some won't and there will be lots of reasons for both. I think this option has more benefits than the current approach, and is actually feasible, and I have not seen a better option that is actually feasible. 

I mean you can keep dismissing people's point as them not being interested, even ignoring the fact that I've said I've been before to these games, have watched them on tv and would do so again. 

It doesn't mean I think it's a good idea. I still think it would add no value to the season, and a big factor in that is that I don't believe there is any demand or interest in a Lancs team. 

You've not countered that, or offered any real benefits. 

[17 stone giant]

27 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

They played one of the games at the weekend for a few years but it entailed cancelling the entire NRL programme. From a personal point of view it didnt seem to have the same aura as the midweek blockbusters.

26 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The global audience would stand a good chance of being smaller than the domestic so why bother?

Fair enough.

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, Hopie said:

To the extent that any place can exist (lines on a map are a human construction) Lancashire exists, the boundaries never changed.

Lancashire does exist. There are plenty of maps to show where it is. 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

3 hours ago, Dave T said:

On this point - if you were going to work with an agency to create a new brand, you would probably be more likely to go with something like this. See Northern Superchargers in The Hundred (not pushing that as a good brand btw!), or Southern Brave in that same comp.

There may be an argument that if you were going to look to create something new and fresh to fill this space that you wouldn't try and play on the old fashioned War of the Roses piece and you'd use modern names that maybe don't focus on the place names, particularly when one of those place names is largely irrelevant. 

Eastern Superchargers Vs Western Brave

Personally I'm still convinced the historic Roses thing is something that can be worked with 

 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

Just now, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Eastern Superchargers Vs Western Brave

Personally I'm still convinced the historic Roses thing is something that can be worked with 

 

Western get Cumbria and Wales then Warren get London and south east

[lucky 7]

On 18/04/2024 at 17:13, sam4731 said:

With people starting to discuss mid season internationals I thought I'd reopen this wound.

Surely with the ever dwindling enthusiasm for internationals in the NH, it's now worth a roll of the dice on this county game.

No reliance on any other federations, the ability to market and sell tickets prior to the start of the season and a genuinely competitive fixture all put this hypothetical fixture above what we're getting this year.

There's no getting around it, England are streets ahead of any other NH team. Let Wales play France annually to further the development of both of those sides.

Yes I know there may be a certain amount of fan apathy especially from the Lancashire side but could fan apathy get any worse than it is?

Let the abuse commence..

It's not coming back.

It's like the Dodo it's extinct.