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Song for England

sam4731

By sam4731
in The General Rugby League Forum

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JohnM

JohnM

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

Arthur, not Henry. Henry was the Proms guy.

Given the average TRL member's world view, maybe we could license "It's the End of the World as we know it" from R.E.M.

I wondered when you'd spot my deliberate mistake...again...😄😄

  • Haha 1
The "Dark Ages" is a term referring to life at the RFL under the new regime. It's characterized by a decline in openness, professionalism, transparency and  achievements, 
 

StandOffHalf

StandOffHalf

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Simply silly. It's the national anthem. I won't say any more on the matter to avoid this being dragged to the AOB.

God Save the King is the British anthem.

England doesn't have an official national anthem, as far as I know.

I think they should go back to what they did at the 2000 World Cup and play 'Land of Hope and Glory'. It would be a point of difference for the sport.

'God Save the King' obviously when GB are playing.

Tommygilf

Tommygilf

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

God Save the King is the British anthem.

England doesn't have an official national anthem, as far as I know.

I think they should go back to what they did at the 2000 World Cup and play 'Land of Hope and Glory'. It would be a point of difference for the sport.

'God Save the King' obviously when GB are playing.

Great Britain doesn't have an official anthem, it's only by tradition, and indeed by the fact that England is the leading part, that GSTK is the anthem chosen. "Rebellious Scots to crush" is hardly a unifying part of the song for the army sent to fight the Jacobites. We are very fixated on the UK/GB/England not being interchangeable now, when up to 60/70 years ago it was the absolute norm on these shores and indeed abroad (where it is still pretty common). That is to say, GSTK is the British anthem of choice because it is the English anthem of choice and vice versa. 

England (collectively) have tried several alternatives. Personally I like Jerusalem or I Vow to Thee My Country. Land of Hope and Glory is good too. I do not think England RL is strong enough however to go it alone in terms of abandoning the National anthem and replacing it with their choice. 

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gingerjon

gingerjon

Posted
Posted

England RL have played Land of Hope & Glory as their anthem before international fixtures before. They may also have done Jerusalem but I'm not sure on that.

Clearly this was very memorable for all concerned.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Barley Mow

Barley Mow

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Great Britain doesn't have an official anthem, it's only by tradition, and indeed by the fact that England is the leading part, that GSTK is the anthem chosen. "Rebellious Scots to crush" is hardly a unifying part of the song for the army sent to fight the Jacobites. We are very fixated on the UK/GB/England not being interchangeable now, when up to 60/70 years ago it was the absolute norm on these shores and indeed abroad (where it is still pretty common). That is to say, GSTK is the British anthem of choice because it is the English anthem of choice and vice versa. 

England (collectively) have tried several alternatives. Personally I like Jerusalem or I Vow to Thee My Country. Land of Hope and Glory is good too. I do not think England RL is strong enough however to go it alone in terms of abandoning the National anthem and replacing it with their choice. 

Because (as you say) GSTK is used as the national anthem just by convention, verses were added, removed, altered throughout it's history.

The "Rebellious Scots to crush" thing gets mentioned a fair bit, but was only ever added in the 1740's when some Scots were rebelling. That verse mentions Marshall George Wade being sent to defeat the uprising, so is about a very specific event and only looks for the crushing of Scots who were in rebellion rather than calling all Scots at all times rebels.

It probably hasn't been used since the 1740s but still gets used to suggest that GSTK is anti-Scottish.

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Tommygilf

Tommygilf

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

Because (as you say) GSTK is used as the national anthem just by convention, verses were added, removed, altered throughout it's history.

The "Rebellious Scots to crush" thing gets mentioned a fair bit, but was only ever added in the 1740's when some Scots were rebelling. That verse mentions Marshall George Wade being sent to defeat the uprising, so is about a very specific event and only looks for the crushing of Scots who were in rebellion rather than calling all Scots at all times rebels.

It probably hasn't been used since the 1740s but still gets used to suggest that GSTK is anti-Scottish.

It's absolutely anti-Jacobite (as in the Scots who were rebelling).

But regardless, the point remains it's the English and British anthem because the two were interchangeable domestically and internationally. 

And I don't think any of this is the reason that people don't attend England RL matches!

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sam4731

sam4731

Posted
  • Author
Posted
4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

England RL have played Land of Hope & Glory as their anthem before international fixtures before. They may also have done Jerusalem but I'm not sure on that.

Clearly this was very memorable for all concerned.

Part of me thinks that the reason we don't change anthems (this is England sport in general, not just RL), is because for some reason we put a lot of importance in this country on the players singing along to the National anthem. GSTK is pretty simple to learn, whilst others might not be.

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N2022

N2022

Posted
Posted

I agree there is no cohesive vibe to the fanbase at these games, so wouldn't expect anyone to know what to shout or sing. Maybe something with a theme of unity ... I take it you'd all join in with Marching on Together ...?

StandOffHalf

StandOffHalf

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Great Britain doesn't have an official anthem, it's only by tradition, and indeed by the fact that England is the leading part, that GSTK is the anthem chosen. "Rebellious Scots to crush" is hardly a unifying part of the song for the army sent to fight the Jacobites. We are very fixated on the UK/GB/England not being interchangeable now, when up to 60/70 years ago it was the absolute norm on these shores and indeed abroad (where it is still pretty common). That is to say, GSTK is the British anthem of choice because it is the English anthem of choice and vice versa. 

England (collectively) have tried several alternatives. Personally I like Jerusalem or I Vow to Thee My Country. Land of Hope and Glory is good too. I do not think England RL is strong enough however to go it alone in terms of abandoning the National anthem and replacing it with their choice. 

Yeah, the Aussies always called GB England, and now call England GB!

'Jerusalem' is a rousing and wonderful celebration of England. I think that would be a truly marvellous choice, but I think it has its place as a non-national anthem that is played at Grand Finals and could be played before the players come out/are in the tunnel for internationals.

I did like what they did in 2000 (although the players looked uncomfortable with some of the words, heehee), and do think RL wouldn't lose anything by sticking its head above the parapet and showing a bit of individualism when it comes to England's anthem. I don't dislike GSTK as an anthem though.

Edited by StandOffHalf
JohnM

JohnM

Posted
Posted

According to the Wikipedia entry for Jerusalem, "However, some sports, including rugby league, use "Jerusalem" as the English anthem."

The entry is well worth reading when you get fed up of the 54,733 posts about IMG.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_did_those_feet_in_ancient_time?wprov=sfla1

 

 

The "Dark Ages" is a term referring to life at the RFL under the new regime. It's characterized by a decline in openness, professionalism, transparency and  achievements, 
 
iffleyox

iffleyox

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, StandOffHalf said:

Yeah, the Aussies always called GB England, and now call England GB!

'Jerusalem' is a rousing and wonderful celebration of England. I think that would be a truly marvellous choice, but I think it has its place as a non-national anthem that is played at Grand Finals and could be played before the players come out/are in the tunnel for internationals.

I did like what they did in 2000 (although the players looked uncomfortable with some of the words, heehee), and do think RL wouldn't lose anything by sticking its head above the parapet and showing a bit of individualism when it comes to England's anthem. I don't dislike GSTK as an anthem though.

Showing individualism by aligning with the England Cricket Team? They sing GSTK *And* Jerusalem

which is slightly problematic, what with them technically being the ‘England and Wales’ team

Edited by iffleyox
  • Like 1
Padge

Padge

Posted
Posted

Don't let me down, The Beatles.

 

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

StandOffHalf

StandOffHalf

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, iffleyox said:

Showing individualism by aligning with the England Cricket Team? They sing GSTK *And* Jerusalem

which is slightly problematic, what with them technically being the ‘England and Wales’ team

Well, I'm not suggestion Jerusalem - although I am in favour of it being played in some capacity. It adds immensely to the sense of occasion.

Damien

Damien

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

Yeah, the Aussies always called GB England, and now call England GB!

'Jerusalem' is a rousing and wonderful celebration of England. I think that would be a truly marvellous choice, but I think it has its place as a non-national anthem that is played at Grand Finals and could be played before the players come out/are in the tunnel for internationals.

I did like what they did in 2000 (although the players looked uncomfortable with some of the words, heehee), and do think RL wouldn't lose anything by sticking its head above the parapet and showing a bit of individualism when it comes to England's anthem. I don't dislike GSTK as an anthem though.

Case in point:

 

  • Like 1
graveyard johnny

graveyard johnny

Posted
Posted

when jwh lands for hull kr maybe they should adopt a song by Elbow- for the ENG team when playing Aus - so you win again - hot chocolate 

I know Bono and he knows Ono and she knows Enos phone goes thus 

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