gingerjon Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 6 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: That corinthian spirit at it again. "Money is ruining rugby ..." Guys, I have some news for you in this book covering 130 years ago ... But also Salford should pay their bills or drop to a level where they can afford to pay their bills. How other clubs pay their bills is not relevant. 4 Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)
Bull Mania Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 Feel for Salford fans (I've been there as have many other fans) Just kicking the can down the road isn't it sadly. How long a time period does the £500k sky payment cover? A couple of months? This mythical stadium deal isn't worth £500k every few months. Even if it was that could easily be offset by a poor season. Salford have just finished 4th and must have made £70k+ from their play-off game against Leigh alone. A bad season where crowds drop off and they don't get play-off ticket money and we're here again. 3
Tommygilf Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 22 minutes ago, Bull Mania said: Feel for Salford fans (I've been there as have many other fans) Just kicking the can down the road isn't it sadly. How long a time period does the £500k sky payment cover? A couple of months? This mythical stadium deal isn't worth £500k every few months. Even if it was that could easily be offset by a poor season. Salford have just finished 4th and must have made £70k+ from their play-off game against Leigh alone. A bad season where crowds drop off and they don't get play-off ticket money and we're here again. Quite. The model that was sold doesn't work evidently. They either needed to be bigger financial amounts invested, and/or more regular funding drops. As you say it's unlikely Salford are going to get a better financial year than last on paper, and it's kicking the can down the road.
The Future is League Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Quite. The model that was sold doesn't work evidently. They either needed to be bigger financial amounts invested, and/or more regular funding drops. As you say it's unlikely Salford are going to get a better financial year than last on paper, and it's kicking the can down the road. If were brutally honest Salford with their on going year on year financial problems are a championship club as best 1
paul hicks Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 4 hours ago, Segovia Carpet said: So would Huddersfield without Ken Davy & Family. so would a number of other clubs that have director's loan ect. 1
paul hicks Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 2 hours ago, Segovia Carpet said: Keep up @dboy. Not One of the other 11 clubs would be able to pay their bills on time without the financial support of their major benefactor. leeds can and do. there owner does not loan the club money in fact he even got back the cost of buying his shares from the old board when leeds declared dividends a few years ago
sweaty craiq Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 25 minutes ago, paul hicks said: leeds can and do. there owner does not loan the club money in fact he even got back the cost of buying his shares from the old board when leeds declared dividends a few years ago In the last 2 posted results Rhinos LOST £3.5m in total. The parent Caddick plc or whatever it’s called made £85m in the same period. 1
Hopie Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 Aren't all clubs paying off their Covid loans at the moment? If they can get through that period every club will be in a better position. Salford may have other issues but an advance on the money isn't necessarily a bad deal for everyone else if they can show they have a better option for future seasons.
M j M Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 34 minutes ago, paul hicks said: leeds can and do. there owner does not loan the club money in fact he even got back the cost of buying his shares from the old board when leeds declared dividends a few years ago Unfortunately since Covid Leeds have not been as profitable as they were before and Caddick has had to put money back in. They expected to be back at break even in 2024 thanks to the AMT sponsorship although I suspect the poor year on field may have undermined that.
sweaty craiq Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 12 minutes ago, Hopie said: Aren't all clubs paying off their Covid loans at the moment? If they can get through that period every club will be in a better position. Salford may have other issues but an advance on the money isn't necessarily a bad deal for everyone else if they can show they have a better option for future seasons. Many clubs didn’t take the loans as they were deemed not good value if you intended to pay them back, my club didn’t for example. RU clubs took it then went bust 1
binosh Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 I’m led to believe that Selco have not renewed their shirt sponsorship at Salford and Advanced Steel have left and gone to Leigh, how true all this is I don’t know but Leigh have announced Advanced Steel as a new sponsor last week. Possibly coincidence or inside knowledge of problems. Either way Salford have atleast 3 maybe 4 payrolls before a league game is played so it’s going to be a tough time.
M j M Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 5 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said: Many clubs didn’t take the loans as they were deemed not good value if you intended to pay them back, my club didn’t for example. RU clubs took it then went bust Not good value!?
gingerjon Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 27 minutes ago, Hopie said: Aren't all clubs paying off their Covid loans at the moment? Not all but most. It's at least 20 clubs who received covid loans via the RFL. (Others may have received other support elsewhere). Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)
Exiled Wiganer Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 This is not an unusual or surprising outcome. They don’t have a Danson etc and so can’t pay their debts. Anyone looking closely at this from a financial standing perspective would have dug deeply enough into their position to be able to predict this. This isn’t Enron (though it sounds like it is run like it), it is simply a rugby club with very few moving pieces. I do have sympathy for the IMG intern, though, as they had a lot of excel spreadsheets to fill, and a lot of social media posts to count, so missing a house built entirely of straw was easily done. 1
dboy Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 47 minutes ago, Hopie said: Aren't all clubs paying off their Covid loans at the moment? If they can get through that period every club will be in a better position. Salford may have other issues but an advance on the money isn't necessarily a bad deal for everyone else if they can show they have a better option for future seasons. You mean like they said they would last year??
dboy Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said: This is not an unusual or surprising outcome. They don’t have a Danson etc and so can’t pay their debts. Anyone looking closely at this from a financial standing perspective would have dug deeply enough into their position to be able to predict this. Do you think they knew they didn't have the money when they signed Hill, Marsters, Sangare, Davis and Bullock? Of course they did, but they made the signings anyway. Edited November 21, 2024 by dboy 1
LeytherRob Posted November 21, 2024 Author Posted November 21, 2024 1 hour ago, Tommygilf said: Quite. The model that was sold doesn't work evidently. They either needed to be bigger financial amounts invested, and/or more regular funding drops. As you say it's unlikely Salford are going to get a better financial year than last on paper, and it's kicking the can down the road. Yep it has to be a subscription/membership scheme and there are 2 things I find a little concerning - firstly that we are currently well in the swing of season ticket launches and xmas merch drops which usually gives clubs operating a traditional upfront ST a good pot of cash to play with in the off season(Leigh back in the day would always have their cashflow issues mid-season on a run of away games when the ST pot has run dry and no home games). Secondly, I have no idea why clubs in this day and age are still persisting with up front ST's rather than monthly membership because why would you not want to have a consistent, easily forecastable income all year round especially as a club living hand to mouth. Maybe I'm wrong, but from what I've seen they appear to still be running their club like you would with a benefactor underwriting things, with a lot of speculation. I found it pretty mad that the fact they got a home playoff against another local rival that were guaranteed to bring a load, and they massively underpriced the tickets at like £10 or £15. They could have charged closer to £30 with very little impact on the numbers attending (Leigh's tickets are £30 if you buy on the day so certainly wouldn't have impacted the numbers there) and made close to double the money. Salford need to decide what kind of club they are and want to be - if it's one challenging for playoffs, having players like Nene, Marsters and Lafai on the books then the need to up the ticket prices to a level that can maximise every penny out of their fanbase without pushing people away, whilst building value into that cost in other ways. If they want to have cut price tickets, family friendly community feel then they need to cut the wage bill and a few stars and accept that they will be battling 10-12th every year. 2
Bod Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 They had no respect for the League when they played Wigan. Give someone else their place. 2
Celtic Roosters Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 6 hours ago, Chrispmartha said: Top flight sport is about money shocker! Name one that isn’t. I only watch on league football as well. Was at Ipswich Wanderers last Saturday and got Shawbury United this week, if the weather is kind. Not really interested in any other sport. The difference with Rugby League is - it can't afford Super Clubs, unless it's at the expense of every other level of the sport. At least, as I travel around non league football grounds, I regular see stands and other infrastructure that is bought through premier league funding, according to the signs on them?
Celtic Roosters Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 6 hours ago, JohnM said: If you gave up on it 24 years ago, how do you know it's a nasty bitter place? Reminder: https://youtu.be/4JDWJzKYfdc?si=KLyweuGV0kmgq4OJ I'm going off what I read on this thread. I used to read League Express as well, and was once a regular contributor, but I finally gave up on that about a month ago.
paul hicks Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 3 hours ago, sweaty craiq said: In the last 2 posted results Rhinos LOST £3.5m in total. The parent Caddick plc or whatever it’s called made £85m in the same period. the parent company caddick plc does not own leeds rhinos it jointly owned by paul caddick who has 76% of shares and gary hethington who owns the remaining 24% . all because a rich man takes a controlling interest in a club does not mean his company owns it. for instance, does AGE PARTNERSHIP now fully own HULL F.C or does Andrew Thirkill just part own them. what Caddick did when he jointly bought the club was to guarantee the clubs overdraft through one of his companies, he did not pump millions into the club on a capital basis. indeed, when the cricket ground was sold to Yorkshire cricket for i think £15 million that paid off the club's debts and also provided a dividend for the shareholders . the club has given out several dividends to the shareholders over the years (both of them) and has traded profitably most years. the two years mentioned are those that were ruined by covid and given the clubs reliance on off field activities with its 365 days a year use of the ground thats no great surprise i think if you look at losses against asset values you will see there is no problem in the long term. 1
M j M Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 6 minutes ago, paul hicks said: the parent company caddick plc does not own leeds rhinos it jointly owned by paul caddick who has 76% of shares and gary hethington who owns the remaining 24% . all because a rich man takes a controlling interest in a club does not mean his company owns it. for instance, does AGE PARTNERSHIP now fully own HULL F.C or does Andrew Thirkill just part own them. what Caddick did when he jointly bought the club was to guarantee the clubs overdraft through one of his companies, he did not pump millions into the club on a capital basis. indeed, when the cricket ground was sold to Yorkshire cricket for i think £15 million that paid off the club's debts and also provided a dividend for the shareholders . the club has given out several dividends to the shareholders over the years (both of them) and has traded profitably most years. the two years mentioned are those that were ruined by covid and given the clubs reliance on off field activities with its 365 days a year use of the ground thats no great surprise i think if you look at losses against asset values you will see there is no problem in the long term. Why are you just making stuff up?
Exiled Wiganer Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 7 minutes ago, paul hicks said: the parent company caddick plc does not own leeds rhinos it jointly owned by paul caddick who has 76% of shares and gary hethington who owns the remaining 24% . all because a rich man takes a controlling interest in a club does not mean his company owns it. for instance, does AGE PARTNERSHIP now fully own HULL F.C or does Andrew Thirkill just part own them. what Caddick did when he jointly bought the club was to guarantee the clubs overdraft through one of his companies, he did not pump millions into the club on a capital basis. indeed, when the cricket ground was sold to Yorkshire cricket for i think £15 million that paid off the club's debts and also provided a dividend for the shareholders . the club has given out several dividends to the shareholders over the years (both of them) and has traded profitably most years. the two years mentioned are those that were ruined by covid and given the clubs reliance on off field activities with its 365 days a year use of the ground thats no great surprise i think if you look at losses against asset values you will see there is no problem in the long term. Age partnership may not own FC but they would be an ideal sponsor for Old Faithful. 1
paul hicks Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 3 hours ago, M j M said: Unfortunately since Covid Leeds have not been as profitable as they were before and Caddick has had to put money back in. They expected to be back at break even in 2024 thanks to the AMT sponsorship although I suspect the poor year on field may have undermined that. 2 years of losses against how many of profit . by the way Caddick has not had to put money in as such. one of his many companies just guarettees the clubs overdraft with the bank . so as long as the bank are happy with that then no money needs to be given. 1
paul hicks Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 2 minutes ago, M j M said: Why are you just making stuff up? such as
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