Salford financial issues(again…)

[Agbrigg]

Sky money is paid in instalments over 10 months and ends every September till January the next season, I believe. This time of year is difficult from some clubs and hence they need the reliance on season tickets and shirt sales if things are tight. That was certainly the case at Wakefield for many years.

However if Salford need this money now, then next season they will be in an even worse situation. I just dont see a way out of it for them. I believe the RFL needs to be realistic and hard headed. I dont see how Salford can limp along . If there are reasonable doubts about their financial sustainability, better they pull out of SL now, than fold mid season.

[Agbrigg]

14 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

If granted PG's should be given to ensure season is completed and bills are paid

PG's from Salford would only be fit for rectum cleaning.

[Dullish Mood]

52 minutes ago, dboy said:

And they haven't paid their loans back, nor have they paid their full rent.

Salford Council have to pay the shortfall for them on a monthly basis.

They are virtually insolvent.

Do Salford inhabit your dreams?

[Griff]

14 minutes ago, Agbrigg said:

Sky money is paid in instalments over 10 months and ends every September till January the next season, I believe.

Can't be right.

Count the months.

[Bull Mania]

1 hour ago, LeytherRob said:

So as reported, Salford have received the following in the past 2 seasons

£364,270 from the share scheme

£215,440 in Loans since Dec 2022 from council

£315,000 grant from the council March this year

£300,000 from sale of Croft and Ackers (The transfer fee Leeds Rhinos have paid Salford Red Devils for Andy Ackers and Brodie Croft - Leeds Live)

6 figure fee for Dupree, £100,000 to be conservative.

That's an additional £1,194,710 on top of their distribution, averaging at £597,355 per season of one off income that still sees them unable to pay bills. Where is the money going to come from to not only bridge that gap but also go further so that they can not only break even but earn enough to service the debts they do have? Especially when they are planning on spending over a third of their yearly distributions before the season even starts?

Add Into that they've just had a season where the finished 4th so higher than normal crowds you would assume and a massive play off vaue verus Leigh. Throw in a bad season where crowds inevitably fall, then what? 

[Angelic Cynic]

So all the financial problems for Salford revolve around the need for the stadium they currently use which was constructed because the then Licensing was coming into play.

The timing was most unfortunate due to world financial problems - well USA & UK.

Nice to see the rugby league family coming together and offer words of support for the fella who has kept the club going for the past few seasons.

Could be another big city club out of Super League - sponsored by the French? 

[Hopie]

32 minutes ago, Agbrigg said:

However if Salford need this money now, then next season they will be in an even worse situation. I just dont see a way out of it for them. I believe the RFL needs to be realistic and hard headed. I dont see how Salford can limp along . If there are reasonable doubts about their financial sustainability, better they pull out of SL now, than fold mid season.

Plenty have speculated this position so I will speculate an alternative. 

Salford need money to get through the next few months, they were expecting a payment in relation to <something or other> but it is now not coming in before the money runs out in December. They can provide a suitable guarantee that the money from <something or other> or a suitable alternative will come in but will be late, so an advance on their central allocation means they will pay the bills now and use the money coming late to replace the central allocation payments next year, straight swap, everybody wins.

Without knowing the finances of the club, both are possible, and I hope the club continues and becomes a viable concern because if they can produce the squads they have now on limited budgets, then a full spend one should be even better.

[dboy]

26 minutes ago, Dullish Mood said:

Do Salford inhabit your dreams?

You do know you're on a forum about Salford's financial issues don't you?

What else would be discussed on this thread?

Maybe you should focus on your club, whilst you have one.

[Agbrigg]

24 minutes ago, Griff said:

Can't be right.

Count the months.

Maybe it ends Oct, but it lasts only 10 payments. Not sure of exact dates, but I do know the late part of the year, no money comes in for a period

[phiggins]

12 minutes ago, Hopie said:

Plenty have speculated this position so I will speculate an alternative. 

Salford need money to get through the next few months, they were expecting a payment in relation to <something or other> but it is now not coming in before the money runs out in December. They can provide a suitable guarantee that the money from <something or other> or a suitable alternative will come in but will be late, so an advance on their central allocation means they will pay the bills now and use the money coming late to replace the central allocation payments next year, straight swap, everybody wins.

Without knowing the finances of the club, both are possible, and I hope the club continues and becomes a viable concern because if they can produce the squads they have now on limited budgets, then a full spend one should be even better.

I think if they can provide a guarantee, then the clubs would nod the advance through fairly quickly, as the alternative would cause some chaos with the league structure. 

But if this income is dependant on the council buying the stadium, agreeing to favourable terms on the tenancy, and the purchase and implementation of some expensive kit to advertise on, then they need a plan B. 

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

This all reminds me of the last round of the licensing days where Bradford were given a clean bill of financial health, and we all know what happened then. If I was the owner of another SL club I'd harden my heart on Monday and vote against giving Salford the money - a repeat of the Bradford troubles would be worse for the game's image than losing a relatively poorly supported club.

[The Masked Poster]

People keep dragging Bradford into this for some reason but if you look at what actually happened, they were treated far harsher than Salford have been.

Bradford too had no benefactor, yet had to contend with much harsher financial and points deductions. 

The two are separate. 

[LeytherRob]

1 hour ago, Bull Mania said:

Add Into that they've just had a season where the finished 4th so higher than normal crowds you would assume and a massive play off vaue verus Leigh. Throw in a bad season where crowds inevitably fall, then what? 

Concerningly, the average attendance fell to 4,646 in 2024 from 5,291 in 2023 a drop of 645 or 13% despite the high finish and strong performances. Judging from the amount of availability on the ticketing website it doesn't appear that 2025 season tickets have been selling very well either.

[preid]

33 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

Concerningly, the average attendance fell to 4,646 in 2024 from 5,291 in 2023 a drop of 645 or 13% despite the high finish and strong performances. Judging from the amount of availability on the ticketing website it doesn't appear that 2025 season tickets have been selling very well either.

All so true. The stadium location is so poor that crowds will always be low regardless. When/if a Manchester franchise arises it would need to be in a central and easy-to-access location. That's what Mike Ford said was an imperative when he took on Oldham and it's working for them. The good thing about this happening now is that there is still enough time for Toulouse to step in given that they are full time already and the Sky money would allow them to be competitive. Maybe they could take on some of the signings Salford made recently despite having no money to pay primary bills.

Edited November 22, 2024 by preid

[LeytherRob]

6 minutes ago, preid said:

All so true. The stadium location is so poor that crowds will always be low regardless. When/if a Manchester franchise arises it would need to be in a central and easy-to-access location. That's what Mike Ford said was an imperative when he took on Oldham and it's working for them. The good thing about this happening now is that there is still enough time for Toulouse to step in given that they are full time already. Maybe they could take on some of the signings Salford made recently despite having no money to pay primary bills.

I find the location of the stadium a pretty flimsy excuse to be honest, it's right in the middle of a bunch of population centres within Salford and there are loads of travel links both for public transport and via car - there is an absolute massive number of potential customers within a 20-minute walk of the stadium. There is only 1 issue that causes absolute havoc with that stadium and it's the carpark - it's ridiculously poorly designed and it's a rip off at £10 that you also have to prebook. Both of which are entirely fixable when you consider the vast majority of the carpark isn't even on properly tarmacked surface. 

[preid]

9 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

I find the location of the stadium a pretty flimsy excuse to be honest, it's right in the middle of a bunch of population centres within Salford and there are loads of travel links both for public transport and via car - there is an absolute massive number of potential customers within a 20-minute walk of the stadium. There is only 1 issue that causes absolute havoc with that stadium and it's the carpark - it's ridiculously poorly designed and it's a rip off at £10 that you also have to prebook. Both of which are entirely fixable when you consider the vast majority of the carpark isn't even on properly tarmacked surface. 

I'll take your word of course especially as Sale manage to average 7,500 but there seems to be no population to the west of the AJ Bell, very little to the north and south and the M60 separates to the east.

[sheddingswasus]

40 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

Concerningly, the average attendance fell to 4,646 in 2024 from 5,291 in 2023 a drop of 645 or 13% despite the high finish and strong performances. Judging from the amount of availability on the ticketing website it doesn't appear that 2025 season tickets have been selling very well either.

This is why Salford struggle compared with other clubs. Whilst Huddersfield have a comparable average they also a benefactor in Ken Davy. 
If their crowd grew to say 7500 it would give them another £60k per match so nearly £1m on the season

For what it’s worth my opinion is Salford shouldn’t get the handout they want 

[phiggins]

25 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

I find the location of the stadium a pretty flimsy excuse to be honest, it's right in the middle of a bunch of population centres within Salford and there are loads of travel links both for public transport and via car - there is an absolute massive number of potential customers within a 20-minute walk of the stadium. There is only 1 issue that causes absolute havoc with that stadium and it's the carpark - it's ridiculously poorly designed and it's a rip off at £10 that you also have to prebook. Both of which are entirely fixable when you consider the vast majority of the carpark isn't even on properly tarmacked surface. 

I've found the stadium to be an absolute nightmare to get to or away from in my visits over the last two seasons.

[LeytherRob]

Just now, phiggins said:

I've found the stadium to be an absolute nightmare to get to or away from in my visits over the last two seasons.

First time I went in 2016 middle 8’s it was a nightmare because we got stuck on the car park for over an hour. Most recent game in the playoffs I found to be fine, traffic in Eccles was no worse than any other time, just parked there and walked 20 mins to the ground.

[Archie Gordon]

Is this loan existential then? If so, there's no positive outcome. The best route I can see is to provide the advance but dock IMG points, effective end of 2025 season. I think we need to avoid Salford disappearing completely but also need to avoid a Broncos mark II situation in 2025. No penalty for Salford would mean we'd likely do this again next year. I think this is a good example of why the central funding dropoff between SL and Champ is too high.

[RigbyLuger]

Interesting line from the club to attack the reports. Will they moan if positive stories are ignored because of the attitude here?

[Old scoreboard end]

Something that puzzles if someone could enlighten me. The monies that Salford want an advance from are surely sat in SKYs bank account. Any agreement the superleague owners come to would need SKY to forward monies in advance. Why would they agree to that?

Or is there a lump sum held somewhere under superleague control.

 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

5 hours ago, Agbrigg said:

Sky money is paid in instalments over 10 months and ends every September till January the next season, I believe. This time of year is difficult from some clubs and hence they need the reliance on season tickets and shirt sales if things are tight. That was certainly the case at Wakefield for many years.

However if Salford need this money now, then next season they will be in an even worse situation. I just dont see a way out of it for them. I believe the RFL needs to be realistic and hard headed. I dont see how Salford can limp along . If there are reasonable doubts about their financial sustainability, better they pull out of SL now, than fold mid season.

I still say the Moore lane stadium would have been better for them.....steady life in the championshiop in a ground they can fill is better than booming in SL then bankrupcy 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

3 hours ago, LeytherRob said:

Concerningly, the average attendance fell to 4,646 in 2024 from 5,291 in 2023 a drop of 645 or 13% despite the high finish and strong performances. Judging from the amount of availability on the ticketing website it doesn't appear that 2025 season tickets have been selling very well either.

Moore Lane

[LeytherRob]

Just now, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I still say the Moore lane stadium would have been better for them.....steady life in the championshiop in a ground they can fill is better than booming in SL then bankrupcy 

It’s where they are likely going to end up unless they find a benefactor or an extra 4k fans