Eddie Hearn talking SL again......

[Dave T]

8 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

It was Littlers talent, combined with his young age that ultimately led to him becoming well known and a bit of a story that non darts fans could get interested in.
But if he had been playing exactly like he has done, except the tournament was held in Warrington Parr Hall, still in front of an enthusiastic crowd, then it wouldn't have anything like the same impact. It would have passed most people by except those already fans of the game. 

Like it or not the platform on which Littler gained his popularity and fame was provided by Hearn. 

I dont think Hearn was involved when the household names were Eric Bristow and co in the 80s.

George Williams could score a hattrick and win the Ashes for England on the BBC in front of 50k people and a couple of million viewers, he wouldn't be up there with Littler. And that won't be because Hearn is a better salesman.

[The Masked Poster]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I dont think Hearn was involved when the household names were Eric Bristow and co in the 80s.

George Williams could score a hattrick and win the Ashes for England on the BBC in front of 50k people and a couple of million viewers, he wouldn't be up there with Littler. And that won't be because Hearn is a better salesman.

I'm not exactly a huge fan of Hearn, just pointing out that particular example. He had to have a platform upon which to showcase his talents - and in this case Hearn provided it. 
As for the Williams example, let's say he was 17 and it was his breakthrough season. He scores a hat trick against Aussies and wins the game almost single handed, making mugs of the revered Kangaroos, all in front of a huge audience on terrestrial TV. Then he would certainly generate publicity and a name for himself as many 'wonderkids' tend to. Even if briefly, it would provide a "water cooler moment" as they say these days. But without that platform it wouldn't be the same. 

[Just Browny]

One of the things darts has in its favour, which I wonder how RL can learn from, is how it naturally generates momentum within its stories because the games are played day after say. So the Littler story last year has grabbed that attention because if you heard of him for the first time on the breakfast news, you can see him live on TV that same day.

Clearly a rugby league player can't play games day after day, but we can help ourselves with more consistent scheduling and ensuring our competitions are scheduled in a way that allows people to know when to tune in without having to follow Bilko's RLonTV website. I think the current SL play off format is good for this; the way the BBC Super League games were scheduled last year was a case study in how not to do it.

Edited January 13 by Just Browny

[Martyn Sadler]

36 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

the way the BBC Super League games were scheduled last year was a case study in how not to do it.

I can understand why the RFL did it, but the decision to move away from Channel 4 after two years was a blow to the image of the game.

[RigbyLuger]

32 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

I can understand why the RFL did it, but the decision to move away from Channel 4 after two years was a blow to the image of the game.

Did C4 put in a bid to renew their deal? The BBCs coverage seems very dull in comparison.

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, Just Browny said:

the way the BBC Super League games were scheduled last year was a case study in how not to do it.

To me we really need to nail down this terrestial contract. Imo it should be one game per week, and if that isn't possible I'd argue the more limited number of games should be backloaded to have weekly matches on through the Summer into September and the Play Offs. The challenge cup would at least cover some of that earlier season changes.

I wonder whether Sky's approach to the Grand Final will ever change. 

[Just Browny]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

To me we really need to nail down this terrestial contract. Imo it should be one game per week, and if that isn't possible I'd argue the more limited number of games should be backloaded to have weekly matches on through the Summer into September and the Play Offs. The challenge cup would at least cover some of that earlier season changes.

I wonder whether Sky's approach to the Grand Final will ever change. 

Agreed. 3pm Saturdays would be my preference, maybe 2.30pm so it finishes just before Final Score.

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

Agreed. 3pm Saturdays would be my preference, maybe 2.30pm so it finishes just before Final Score.

Agreed. No competition from (legal) domestic football for TV viewers has always seemed a logical slot for us to go for.

[sweaty craiq]

I would go as far as we are probably better moving away from Sky/pay TV completely until a fair deal is reached. If we had 2 games a weekend on BBC every week and got nothing for it but the coverage/commentary was spot on - would we be able to recover the £1.25m per club we currently get?

is it time to build our value by walking away? What would the sponsorship value be to have your name on free tv for 4/6 hours a week with highlights show? Both as a comp and as a club? What would the perception be, what value increase would the sport get?

basic numbers ask each club to generate £1.25m pa extra. If streaming of non tv fixtures brought in 100k subscribers at £10 a month that’s £1m per club - prices and numbers adjusted to play with numbers. Sponsorship and gates would more than fill the void imo

[RigbyLuger]

12 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

I would go as far as we are probably better moving away from Sky/pay TV completely until a fair deal is reached. If we had 2 games a weekend on BBC every week and got nothing for it but the coverage/commentary was spot on - would we be able to recover the £1.25m per club we currently get?

No, we wouldn't. We'd end up like speedway. 

The BBC coverage is dull, with no life to it most weeks. They've lost their best commentator to Sky, hopefully the Bulls job keeps Brian Noble away, and that's before we mention Johnathan Davies and Robbie Hunter-Paul stealing a wage. From Adam Hills and Helen Skelton to Tanya Arnold is a massive drop off. Sorry, there's no evidence to say the BBC coverage would improve if they were the only game in town.

[Tommygilf]

If streaming could make the amounts we need then hopefully we will see that with SL+

[Dave T]

3 hours ago, The Masked Poster said:

I'm not exactly a huge fan of Hearn, just pointing out that particular example. He had to have a platform upon which to showcase his talents - and in this case Hearn provided it. 
As for the Williams example, let's say he was 17 and it was his breakthrough season. He scores a hat trick against Aussies and wins the game almost single handed, making mugs of the revered Kangaroos, all in front of a huge audience on terrestrial TV. Then he would certainly generate publicity and a name for himself as many 'wonderkids' tend to. Even if briefly, it would provide a "water cooler moment" as they say these days. But without that platform it wouldn't be the same. 

But we do have that platform. We get coverage on the BBC and England games have had 2m before which is broadly comparable (a bit higher actually) than the Darts final the year before Littler smashed onto the scene.

Solo sports do lend themselves very well to creating a superstar. I haven't watched a full boxing match for years and years, yet know of the biggest boxers. Same with stuff like Tennis, we are probably having a bit of a lull in terms of household names storming onto the scene, I expect most people couldn't name players outside of Djokovic etc, but these will always pop up and become big names. Same in golf. 

There are sports that lend themselves well to social media and putting an individual in front of people. Darts and boxing are perfect examples of these. 

[sweaty craiq]

38 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

No, we wouldn't. We'd end up like speedway. 

The BBC coverage is dull, with no life to it most weeks. They've lost their best commentator to Sky, hopefully the Bulls job keeps Brian Noble away, and that's before we mention Johnathan Davies and Robbie Hunter-Paul stealing a wage. From Adam Hills and Helen Skelton to Tanya Arnold is a massive drop off. Sorry, there's no evidence to say the BBC coverage would improve if they were the only game in town.

Which bit about commentary and coverage went over your head - perception is key to all this 

[RigbyLuger]

1 minute ago, sweaty craiq said:

Which bit about commentary and coverage went over your head - perception is key to all this 

They've done nothing in the last year to suggest they'd change anything.

[sweaty craiq]

2 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

They've done nothing in the last year to suggest they'd change anything.

Why suggest? We demand as part of any negotiation - especially if we have a place we want to end up at.

[Impartial Observer]

I seem to remember people saying they didn't know when c4 games were being shown.  Also not sure a Saturday afternoon game on TV is a good idea as the majority of community games are being played then so takes away a lot of potential viewers or people actually attending 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Impartial Observer said:

I seem to remember people saying they didn't know when c4 games were being shown.  Also not sure a Saturday afternoon game on TV is a good idea as the majority of community games are being played then so takes away a lot of potential viewers or people actually attending 

I don’t many people who were going to attend a community game would stay at home to watch an SL game. You tend to have people who like live rugby, and those who like it on tv. 

[hunsletgreenandgold]

2 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

Why suggest? We demand as part of any negotiation - especially if we have a place we want to end up at.

Sadly SL is in no position to demand anything - that's part of the problem with all revenue into the game, from advertising to broadcast deals. 

[Dullish Mood]

3 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

I would go as far as we are probably better moving away from Sky/pay TV completely until a fair deal is reached. If we had 2 games a weekend on BBC every week and got nothing for it but the coverage/commentary was spot on - would we be able to recover the £1.25m per club we currently get?

is it time to build our value by walking away? What would the sponsorship value be to have your name on free tv for 4/6 hours a week with highlights show? Both as a comp and as a club? What would the perception be, what value increase would the sport get?

basic numbers ask each club to generate £1.25m pa extra. If streaming of non tv fixtures brought in 100k subscribers at £10 a month that’s £1m per club - prices and numbers adjusted to play with numbers. Sponsorship and gates would more than fill the void imo

Oh dear….

[Impartial Observer]

5 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I don’t many people who were going to attend a community game would stay at home to watch an SL game. You tend to have people who like live rugby, and those who like it on tv. 

Sorry I meant attending the SL game

[Derwent]

6 hours ago, Dave T said:

I dont think Hearn was involved when the household names were Eric Bristow and co in the 80s.

George Williams could score a hattrick and win the Ashes for England on the BBC in front of 50k people and a couple of million viewers, he wouldn't be up there with Littler. And that won't be because Hearn is a better salesman.

Barry Hearn was. There’s a 3 part documentary series just been released on Sky called Dart Kings tracing how darts went from a dying sport (in pro terms) to where it is now and how Barry Hearn and a few others made it happen. 

But it’s all about profile. Forget TV, we need players getting slots on things like The Overlap. Roy Keane is a huge RL fan (tells a very funny story about going to knock Wayne Rooney out when he changed channels while Roy was watching a SL game in a hotel room) - I’m sure with the right people involved he would be happy to have a RL player on. The show is massive, obviously they mainly have people with football backgrounds but every few weeks they do a non-football one - recently they’ve had people like Ricky Gervais, Michael McIntyre, Colleen Rooney. It’s an hour and a half of huge exposure if you can get someone on who is engaging and able to be articulate and humorous.

[Dave T]

28 minutes ago, Derwent said:

Barry Hearn was. There’s a 3 part documentary series just been released on Sky called Dart Kings tracing how darts went from a dying sport (in pro terms) to where it is now and how Barry Hearn and a few others made it happen. 

But it’s all about profile. Forget TV, we need players getting slots on things like The Overlap. Roy Keane is a huge RL fan (tells a very funny story about going to knock Wayne Rooney out when he changed channels while Roy was watching a SL game in a hotel room) - I’m sure with the right people involved he would be happy to have a RL player on. The show is massive, obviously they mainly have people with football backgrounds but every few weeks they do a non-football one - recently they’ve had people like Ricky Gervais, Michael McIntyre, Colleen Rooney. It’s an hour and a half of huge exposure if you can get someone on who is engaging and able to be articulate and humorous.

I can't really find any trace of Hearn involved in darts in the 80s, not disputing it, just the history is very sketchy.

[JohnM]

Forget TV, we need players getting slots on things like The Overlap

Why not both? That's why I prattle on about "create once, use many."

Just like politicians have a morning round, saying the same stuff on multiple outlets in series - BBC TV, Sky News, ITV, C4 News. 

[Derwent]

8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I can't really find any trace of Hearn involved in darts in the 80s, not disputing it, just the history is very sketchy.

Not sure why - Barry Hearn has been involved since 1993. Initially he was their PR consultant until he took over as Chairman of the PDC in 2000 (a position he held until 2021). Just as an example, when he took over the PDC in 2000 the World Championship prize money pool was £104,000 (£30,000 for winner) and now it is £2,500,000 (£500,000 for winner). 

[Dave T]

Just now, Derwent said:

Not sure why - Barry Hearn has been involved since 1993. Initially he was their PR consultant until he took over as Chairman of the PDC in 2000 (a position he held until 2021). Just as an example, when he took over the PDC in 2000 the World Championship prize money pool was £104,000 (£30,000 for winner) and now it is £2,500,000 (£500,000 for winner). 

Ah, so that's the 90s.