If the NRL did buy Super League... would mergers / relocations / name changes be accepted by the RFL ...or more importantly the fans ?

[The Partisan]

Thoughts? 

Would tradition, history and home team supporter passion stand in the way of potential progress and prosperity if the NRL wanted to take drastic measures like those mentioned in the subject line ? 

Realise that mergers were on the agenda and very unpopular in the early days of Super League mid 90's... but would their be an appetite now if it meant saving .. or at least assisting...the game in England? 

Seen traditional clubs lost in the Brisbane Rugby League  (Western Suburbs, Brothers and Valleys).

NSWRL / NRL lost North Sydney and merged two foundation clubs Wests and Balmain.  Legendary club St. George merged to keep its existence. 

 

Current status ...

Statewide Queensland Cup now strong in seniors and juniors. 

 NRL going from strength to strength.

 

What would the RFL, clubs and supporters see as non negotiables if the NRL wanted to make changes? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dave T]

We saw 30 years ago what people would accept. 

As long as enough clubs retained their position and identity, you can shuffle the bottom, which is basically all they did in 1995.

It doesn't help that there aren't any decent examples of successful mergers in the UK.

[Leyther_Matt]

Australia had too many strong areas and needed to consolidate. We don’t have that luxury and, with that, all viable comparisons end. 

[JohnM]

1.  Generally, I feel there are few if any examples of mergers. They always seem to end up as take-overs.

2. Lose some of those who have been fans the longest, but offset that, ( or preferrably beat that) with newbies, who usually have deeper pockets ( buy more replica shirts) and longer life-expectancy.

3. A little like, for example, moving from Central Park to the JJB/DW/Brick Community Stadium.

[Eddie]

Mergers and British sporting culture don’t mix and never will. 

[ricky]

7 hours ago, The Partisan said:

tradition, history and home team supporter passion stand in the way of potential progress and prosperity

I think the route to prosperity lies in nuturing tradition, history etc.

I wonder what state the suggested Humberside club would be in by now. And what it would be calling itself by now.

[Sports Prophet]

The NRL mergers and sacrifices were made as a means of rationalisation.

To suggest mergers in SL would be to suggest opening up space for new or existing clubs.

I am not satisfied there are a good handful of existing clubs ready and able to come in and do a better job of other current SL clubs.

Neither am I satisfied the RFL/NRL have the financial resources to establish 3 or so new clubs in “geographically important” locations or relocate any for that matter.

As such, no, no mergers or relocations for me thank you.

[Father Gascoigne]

Sydney's a big place. Outside London, no SL club is in a big enough city to warrant mergers. It's also culturally homogenous. Which means that despite the inevitable resistance to mergers, in time you can generate a fanbase across a wider area, and in fact across the whole city. 

To me, 20kms away is just another suburb of the city I live in. In England that distance could represent entering into another world. 

Who are you going to merge? Leigh and Salford? Wakefield and Castleford? These are independent towns and cities, with unique cultures.   

With mergers, you're likely to lose many of these people as you've ruined one of the main reasons they support their club, which is the pride that comes from having something represent you on the national stage. 

 

[sam4731]

I can see a situation where maybe Whitehaven, Workington and Barrow accept a Cumbrian SL team but as an addition rather than at the expense of their own teams that could maybe rotate between the 3 grounds.

Maybe the same with Oldham, Rochdale and Swinton.

[JohnM]

Successful "mergers"?

Man U, Oxford U, West Ham U, Boston United .....  

[Worzel]

If they want to merge Hull KR with Manly and relocate me with it then I'd be all for it. 

Go the Manly-Kingston-Warringah Sea Robins!! 

 

[hunsletgreenandgold]

From a professional sport POV: 

With mergers the smaller/weaker clubs will eventually die off

Without mergers the smaller/weaker clubs will eventually die off

It's just a case of picking how you want to die really. 

[fighting irish]

23 minutes ago, Worzel said:

If they want to merge Hull KR with Manly and relocate me with it then I'd be all for it. 

Go the Manly-Kingston-Warringah Sea Robins!! 

 

Have you been to Manly? I spent some time there, it's great. 

[JonM]

3 hours ago, sam4731 said:

I can see a situation where maybe Whitehaven, Workington and Barrow accept a Cumbrian SL team 

Barrow to Wigan is pretty similar driving time to Barrow to Workington on a Sunday afternoon in summer. 

Inverness Caledonian Thistle is probably the only successful merger in the last 80 years. 

New clubs is the way to go, absolutely pointless to take an existing club and relocate it.

[corkonian77]

5 minutes ago, JonM said:

Barrow to Wigan is pretty similar driving time to Barrow to Workington on a Sunday afternoon in summer. 

Inverness Caledonian Thistle is probably the only successful merger in the last 80 years. 

New clubs is the way to go, absolutely pointless to take an existing club and relocate it.

Relocation of clubs is pointless especially if they have little  intectual  property rights value  in new market. 

 

[Dave T]

17 minutes ago, JonM said:

Barrow to Wigan is pretty similar driving time to Barrow to Workington on a Sunday afternoon in summer. 

Inverness Caledonian Thistle is probably the only successful merger in the last 80 years. 

New clubs is the way to go, absolutely pointless to take an existing club and relocate it.

The only way you would do it really would be to have a Cumbria SL club and then the existing clubs as 'feeder clubs'. Maybe one of the towns would be chosen as the home base and that club would lose its identity. 

But that all feels like a push too.

[Dave W]

I'm always amazed how people can blithely wave their arms around and conjure up a wholly impracticable Cumbria club while burying their heads in the sand about clubs who are literally within walking distance of each other.

[ricky]

If, say, Fev were closed down and merged into Cas, how long before the people of Fev set up a new club, and set about working it up the ladder? People are bloody-minded (and quite right too) 

The numbers don't work, either. Shutting down Hunslet wouldn't make 5,000 more people in Leeds decide to go to the Rhinos. 

[Worzel]

2 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Have you been to Manly? I spent some time there, it's great. 

Yeah lived there for 4 years a decade ago, brilliant place to live and great times at the Brookie Oval… here’s me and the lad off to watch us lose the Grand Final to the Roosters!

I was preparing him for his future life as an ever-disappointed Hull KR fan

Edited March 5 by Worzel

[sam4731]

1 hour ago, JonM said:

Barrow to Wigan is pretty similar driving time to Barrow to Workington on a Sunday afternoon in summer. 

Inverness Caledonian Thistle is probably the only successful merger in the last 80 years. 

New clubs is the way to go, absolutely pointless to take an existing club and relocate it.

I know that Barrow, Workington and Whitehaven aren't necessarily that close but they are still Cumbria and might find someone to cheer for with a separate Cumbrian club in SL.

[Dave T]

16 minutes ago, Dave W said:

I'm always amazed how people can blithely wave their arms around and conjure up a wholly impracticable Cumbria club while burying their heads in the sand about clubs who are literally within walking distance of each other.

Yes, nobody ever talks about the likes of Cas and Wakey being so close, or Wigan, Wire and Saints being close do they?

These clubs and towns though have delivered facilities in the main and decent fanbases.

[Damien]

Mergers only work if the sum is much greater than the parts and/or to enter a new league to participate at a higher level. Catalans and Inverness Caledonian Thistle are good examples of this. I just don't see any decent contenders in UK RL.

I also don't think there is anything wrong with smaller clubs living within their means. That is why we have leagues to accommodate clubs of various sizes.

[Treizistance]

Mergers don't work 99% of the time, there will always be a dominant party who will seek to impose their will over time (Manly, Western Suburbs) or apathy from both fanbases will see the merged club ultimately fail (Celtic Warriors in Welsh Rugby Union). I've been listening to The Superleague War podcast (Australia focused but some episodes on the game here too, really good series which I would recommend) recently and the below episode covers the proposed mergers in UK Superleague (Cheshire Cats ) and why they wouldn't work. What is true then is true today I feel.

 

[Tommygilf]

2 hours ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

From a professional sport POV: 

With mergers the smaller/weaker clubs will eventually die off

Without mergers the smaller/weaker clubs will eventually die off

It's just a case of picking how you want to die really. 

Yeah essentially we've seen this in Leeds with Bramley and Hunslet being subsumed by the Rhinos in the city.

Death isn't necessarily inevitable, but where there is a clear difference in levels that becomes ingrained pretty definitively. The difference between SL and League 1 may as well be 7 divisions of the equivalent football pyramid too.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

7 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Yeah essentially we've seen this in Leeds with Bramley and Hunslet being subsumed by the Rhinos in the city.

Death isn't necessarily inevitable, but where there is a clear difference in levels that becomes ingrained pretty definitively. The difference between SL and League 1 may as well be 7 divisions of the equivalent football pyramid too.

Yep - even the most staunch Hunslet fans accept their fate these days. They obviosuly are of the 'rather die than merge' ilk and in fairness i'm not sure, at least in the last 30 years, any talks of a merger have even been a the table. 

Part of the problem with mergers is we onkly consider them as last resort, rather than strengthening and shoring up the future. Hunslet amateur teams did exactly that - a different landscape to the pro ranks I understand but we should change out mindset to what a merger is achieving, before it becomes the last resort that nobody wants.