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The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)


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You mention a lot of issues there, some of them not related to the structure of the leagues. But the point is that the RFL's proposals are unpopular with supporters, as our Readers' Poll revealed. A 2 to 1 majority against the two-twelves, three-eights proposal.

 

Don't forget that any player who is involved in international competition will play beyond the Grand Final. Did Ben Hellewell look shattered when he was playing for Scotland?

 

If you believe the game has become sterile and dull that's your prerogative, but I don't think any league reorganisation will cure that feeling for you.

 

And unfortunately you're not a realist, because you close your eyes to the damage that annual promotion and relegation does to clubs when they are having constantly to adjust from full-time to part-time status, and vice versa.

 

Have you forgotten the poll on this website earlier in the year that had 3x8 as a narrow winner? Was this poll less valid than the one that gives you your preferred result?

 

Ben Hellewell played only a handfull of games last year, not a great example.

 

I think you need to look again at 3x8, the adjustment you speak of simply will not be required.

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at this stage i'll be happy a 12-12-14,three league structure....

 

 

 

and im actually warming to the heatheringtons idea of a ESL bottom 4 v championship top 4 mini comp....

 

 

but that requires all the championship to receive funding in some way....obviously the obvious plan would be to divvy up the super league money the 13th & 14th ESL clubs would have received....that would give each championship club around £200k each...thats a start. 

Edited by roughyedspud

OLDHAM RLFC

the 8TH most successful team in british RL

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Have you forgotten the poll on this website earlier in the year that had 3x8 as a narrow winner? 

 

Is there a link to that as I can't find it now?

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Super League feels like it has lost its appeal at the moment anyway, gone are the days that me and all my mates where excited when Friday came round so we could all go the pub and watch the match (whoever was playing).

The Championship chases Super League like Super League chases the NRL, the only difference is The Championship has closed the gap whereas the Super League is further away than it ever has been.

Over recent years the Championship has grown IMO, with the TV coverage, sponsors, attendances, competitive teams, stadium developments, club structures & finances, to the point where there is very little between the bottom 4 of Super League and the top 4 in the Championship (playing wise). im sure somebody will pick holes in this though.

SL needs to be cut, as its just not "Super" enough anymore!

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at this stage i'll be happy a 12-12-14,three league structure....

 

 

 

and im actually warming to the heatheringtons idea of a ESL bottom 4 v championship top 4 mini comp....

 

 

but that requires all the championship to receive funding in some way....obviously the obvious plan would be to divvy up the super league money the 13th & 14th ESL clubs would have received....that would give each championship club around £200k each...thats a start. 

 

 

I thought the idea was to give this money to SL clubs as stretching that money over 14 leaves clubs short.....

 

for what you suggest it would be the same for the top 12 as it is now.........

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I think I prefer licensing to this idea.

 

It's so far out of leftfield, at first I thought it was a wind up.

 

To even have the possibility, however remote that a club could become Super League champions, while at the same time face a relegation playoff is insane.

Presumably by "this idea" you are referring to my proposal as set out in my article in League Express.

 

The point you make about a club finishing at the bottom but then in the following year or two winning the competition could be easily dealt with by a proviso that winning the competition in a subsequent year would take away the need to feature in a play-off for relegation.

 

That could even be extended so that a club that featured in a title play-off in a subsequent year would also avoid the relegation play-offs, giving any club that finishes at the bottom of the league a massive incentive to improve rather than stagnate.

 

What is "insane" is creating structures that put clubs under needless and unsustainable financial pressure.

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Super League feels like it has lost its appeal at the moment anyway, gone are the days that me and all my mates where excited when Friday came round so we could all go the pub and watch the match (whoever was playing).

The Championship chases Super League like Super League chases the NRL, the only difference is The Championship has closed the gap whereas the Super League is further away than it ever has been.

Over recent years the Championship has grown IMO, with the TV coverage, sponsors, attendances, competitive teams, stadium developments, club structures & finances, to the point where there is very little between the bottom 4 of Super League and the top 4 in the Championship (playing wise). im sure somebody will pick holes in this though.

SL needs to be cut, as its just not "Super" enough anymore!

 

its a point of view, I suppose, but not in my view a very realistic one. take attendances for example....

Four legs good - two legs bad

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Super League feels like it has lost its appeal at the moment anyway, gone are the days that me and all my mates where excited when Friday came round so we could all go the pub and watch the match (whoever was playing).

The Championship chases Super League like Super League chases the NRL, the only difference is The Championship has closed the gap whereas the Super League is further away than it ever has been.

Over recent years the Championship has grown IMO, with the TV coverage, sponsors, attendances, competitive teams, stadium developments, club structures & finances, to the point where there is very little between the bottom 4 of Super League and the top 4 in the Championship (playing wise). im sure somebody will pick holes in this though.

SL needs to be cut, as its just not "Super" enough anymore!

 

 

I remember when NRL clubs put 40 -80 points on SL clubs...

 

Now the games are much closer with victories for both sides.....

 

OH and didn't you watch the championship champions play the worst team in SL.... wasn't very close was it?

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Have you forgotten the poll on this website earlier in the year that had 3x8 as a narrow winner? Was this poll less valid than the one that gives you your preferred result?

 

Ben Hellewell played only a handfull of games last year, not a great example.

 

I think you need to look again at 3x8, the adjustment you speak of simply will not be required.

If I recall correctly, that was a forum poll which would have had a far smaller number of voters than the numbers who voted in our Readers' Poll.

 

Unfortunately the two-twelves, three-eights structure will create a mentality among all clubs that they must be in the top eight come what may, and they will spend money they haven't got in order to try to get there and then remain there. It is inherently destabilising, in the same way that the old-style promotion and relegation used to be.

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Super League feels like it has lost its appeal at the moment anyway, gone are the days that me and all my mates where excited when Friday came round so we could all go the pub and watch the match (whoever was playing).

The Championship chases Super League like Super League chases the NRL, the only difference is The Championship has closed the gap whereas the Super League is further away than it ever has been.

Over recent years the Championship has grown IMO, with the TV coverage, sponsors, attendances, competitive teams, stadium developments, club structures & finances, to the point where there is very little between the bottom 4 of Super League and the top 4 in the Championship (playing wise). im sure somebody will pick holes in this though.

SL needs to be cut, as its just not "Super" enough anymore!

So many RL fans don't like Rugby League.

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If I recall correctly, that was a forum poll which would have had a far smaller number of voters than the numbers who voted in our Readers' Poll.

 

Unfortunately the two-twelves, three-eights structure will create a mentality among all clubs that they must be in the top eight come what may, and they will spend money they haven't got in order to try to get there and then remain there. It is inherently destabilising, in the same way that the old-style promotion and relegation used to be.

 

I think it will reinvigorate our game, while at the same time providing meaningful competition for those clubs who cannot make the top 8.

 

I don't think your prediction will come true.  The Cas CEO's recent comments would appear to refute your worries about clubs over reaching to get in the top 8.

 

Shall we agree to disagree?

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I thought the idea was to give this money to SL clubs as stretching that money over 14 leaves clubs short.....

 

for what you suggest it would be the same for the top 12 as it is now.........

 

 

you see,,,thats the issue imo...RUGBY LEAGUE is more than just SUPER LEAGUE...

 

this is where the RFL needs a backbone and decide to use i bit of the money to try and strengthen the game as a whole and not just the top 12 clubs!

OLDHAM RLFC

the 8TH most successful team in british RL

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I think it will reinvigorate our game, while at the same time providing meaningful competition for those clubs who cannot make the top 8.

 

I don't think your prediction will come true.  The Cas CEO's recent comments would appear to refute your worries about clubs over reaching to get in the top 8.

 

Shall we agree to disagree?

I'm happy to do that, and I'll go further.

 

It's not often that I hope to be proved wrong, but if we go down this particular route I sincerely hope that I'm wrong and you're right.

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you see,,,thats the issue imo...RUGBY LEAGUE is more than just SUPER LEAGUE...

this is where the RFL needs a backbone and decide to use i bit of the money to try and strengthen the game as a whole and not just the top 12 clubs!

its a separate discussion regarding funding, what I am pointing out is the the current money the SL gets is only enough for 12 clubs (according to the powers that be) if you shrink it to 12 but used the money saved to fund something else (doesnt matter what) then the situation hasnt changed, the number would be 12 but each club would be no better off than when there were 14 clubs....

my point is that if you wanted to impose your plan to free up SL money you would need to cut the SL to ten to have a positive impact on SL.....

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Please ignor my ignorance but don't we have a governing body that is supposed to be running this sport and in my opninion should be monitoring a clubs spending? Didn't every club with SL aspirations have to submit a business plan that was scrutinised by a very high profile firm of accountants? If any club is spending more thn it's business plan states then is it not in breach of SL rules?  I can't say iiiiiiit is wrong tht the RFL should help out clubs financialy because they helped my club Leigh at one point but clubs that are knowingly overspending should be deducted points. Not years later but at the time it happens. Are they not the rules?  

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its a separate discussion regarding funding, what I am pointing out is the the current money the SL gets is only enough for 12 clubs (according to the powers that be) if you shrink it to 12 but used the money saved to fund something else (doesnt matter what) then the situation hasnt changed, the number would be 12 but each club would be no better off than when there were 14 clubs....

my point is that if you wanted to impose your plan to free up SL money you would need to cut the SL to ten to have a positive impact on SL.....

cut it to 10 then....

 

 

but im calling bull$hit on £1.2m not being enough.....its 75% of the full salary cap paid!

OLDHAM RLFC

the 8TH most successful team in british RL

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Super League feels like it has lost its appeal at the moment anyway, gone are the days that me and all my mates where excited when Friday came round so we could all go the pub and watch the match (whoever was playing).

The Championship chases Super League like Super League chases the NRL, the only difference is The Championship has closed the gap whereas the Super League is further away than it ever has been.

Over recent years the Championship has grown IMO, with the TV coverage, sponsors, attendances, competitive teams, stadium developments, club structures & finances, to the point where there is very little between the bottom 4 of Super League and the top 4 in the Championship (playing wise). im sure somebody will pick holes in this though.

SL needs to be cut, as its just not "Super" enough anymore!

When I was younger, the summers were longer, beer was tastier and Super League was better.

 

Funny thing is that summers are longer now, I would not touchsome of the beer I drank then and the quality of rugby league has improved.  I am older though.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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Unfortunately the two-twelves, three-eights structure will create a mentality among all clubs that they must be in the top eight come what may, and they will spend money they haven't got in order to try to get there and then remain there. It is inherently destabilising, in the same way that the old-style promotion and relegation used to be.

How can a business spend money it hasn't got and remain in business Martyn - isn't that why we are where we are and franchising has failed?

The laws of the real world must be implanted in the RL world asap, who are you or I to tell a club they are not worthy. That is a gross mixture of stupidity and arrogance from a defeatist with no business understanding

Competition is the lifeblood of any vibrant industry and RL has so much to sell if we make the dinosaurs extinct and focus on the wonderful product we have together with the value it will bring to our partners - I say this employing 1900 people and making £15m profits in 2013 in a business that was nearly belly up 10 years ago operating in the private sector ( sorry about the penis measuring)

We take on people 5x our size and wipe the floor with them on the bottom line, 10 years ago we were laughed at and in your mentality would have our ambitions denied, that flat cap is impacting on your vision imo

Edited by sweaty craiq
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