Leigh to ignore Salary Cap

[Lounge Room Lizard]

Leigh simply were/are not ready for SL its as simple as that. If they was then they wouldnt have got smashed against a PT team in Halifax or by Bradford let alone SL clubs. I can understand Leigh being angry but the way they are going about things will hurt them maybe way more than they realise. Somethings are best not said or said to the right people at the right time. DB and Leigh are not doing themselves any favours by publically bashing everybody and telling everybody sod you we will break the cap. The Cap has nothing to do with Leigh getting smashed by Halifax, nor the fact that they have missed out on the MPG- which they expected to be involved in. The RFL and others have not put any blocks in the way of Leigh or made life hard for them. Leigh have probably a better squad on paper than Wakefield, Halifax and Bradford-but lost to all 3. Leigh decided to go out and pay big money for players that have not performed in the 8s- some like Sam Barlow have not even played I think.

 

Leigh seem to think they can buy the way into SL and ignore certain other aspects. I believe that while money might help a team to success its not the greatest thing they need. Leigh had a great first half of the season-one which probably has hurt them both on the playing side and maybe because of the cup run Sky wanted Leigh on TV expecting a big upset that never happened. Leigh come across as wanting to be the big club etc but when they are maybe seen as such and Sky want them on TV then moan about it! Sometime in the future the money Leigh (or any club) has coming in via a money man will end and often there is nobody there to pick up the pieces. It comes across as Leigh have not learnt much from a couple of years ago when the money man couldnt keep things going. Having a strong team is short term thinking. Maybe Leigh and British clubs need to think long term and look to have something that they own and can make money on like the Leagues Clubs in Australia. Most English clubs own nothing, but a few players and struggle to bring money as bar takings etc go to somebody else-I think this happens at Leigh. If DB has so much money why not build something Leigh can benefit from even if one day they have no money man?

[georgehadgingerhair]

Not the right way to do it but he is right. The middle 8 is ridiculous and will never see anyone promoted

Bradford may say different at this moment in time.

[georgehadgingerhair]

haha the millon pound question that keeps rattling round my head but i still cant give you a genuine answer.

Ill have a guess tho and say we'd now be sat on 8 points & tomorrows gate would top 10k because the game could see us promoted

Your biggest game of the season was last week which seemed poorly attended no Bradford fans there ?.

[JohnM]

Leigh simply were/are not ready for SL its as simple as that. If they was then they wouldnt have got smashed against a PT team in Halifax or by Bradford let alone SL clubs. I can understand Leigh being angry but the way they are going about things will hurt them maybe way more than they realise. Somethings are best not said or said to the right people at the right time. DB and Leigh are not doing themselves any favours by publically bashing everybody and telling everybody sod you we will break the cap. The Cap has nothing to do with Leigh getting smashed by Halifax, nor the fact that they have missed out on the MPG- which they expected to be involved in. The RFL and others have not put any blocks in the way of Leigh or made life hard for them. Leigh have probably a better squad on paper than Wakefield, Halifax and Bradford-but lost to all 3. Leigh decided to go out and pay big money for players that have not performed in the 8s- some like Sam Barlow have not even played I think.

 

Leigh seem to think they can buy the way into SL and ignore certain other aspects. I believe that while money might help a team to success its not the greatest thing they need. Leigh had a great first half of the season-one which probably has hurt them both on the playing side and maybe because of the cup run Sky wanted Leigh on TV expecting a big upset that never happened. Leigh come across as wanting to be the big club etc but when they are maybe seen as such and Sky want them on TV then moan about it! Sometime in the future the money Leigh (or any club) has coming in via a money man will end and often there is nobody there to pick up the pieces. It comes across as Leigh have not learnt much from a couple of years ago when the money man couldnt keep things going. Having a strong team is short term thinking. Maybe Leigh and British clubs need to think long term and look to have something that they own and can make money on like the Leagues Clubs in Australia. Most English clubs own nothing, but a few players and struggle to bring money as bar takings etc go to somebody else-I think this happens at Leigh. If DB has so much money why not build something Leigh can benefit from even if one day they have no money man?

 

Leigh seem to think they can buy the way into SL

 

Don't agree. The owner seems to think he can bully his way in, but the loyal fans, I think, want to win their way in. The owner has no doubt spent lots of time and  money in developing the club, but I don't think he is necessarily  as well off as some may think,

[GaryO]

Leigh seem to think they can buy the way into SL

 

Don't agree. The owner seems to think he can bully his way in, but the loyal fans, I think, want to win their way in. The owner has no doubt spent lots of time and  money in developing the club, but I don't think he is necessarily  as well off as some may think,

I most definitely concur with that statement John.

[GaryO]

Clubs within Super League have the ability to challenge the existing troika at the top of the game because in the majority of cases they have the playing, financial and support base to do so.

That is a good way of avoiding the question RR, with hand on heart do you really believe that all clubs in the SL satisfy those 3 criteria, by putting the word "majority" in there, you are in fact agreeing with my statement that some members of SL are having an easy ride in terms of funding.

[Angelic Cynic]

The spending spree appears to have started with the signing of Cory Patterson from Salford. 

 

As they offloaded the namesake of the Director of rugby to make way for Dixon and then signed Hock and Higham without offloading any others

 

it may be that the start of 2016 is going to be interesting.

 

Then again,it may require a Ned Catic type of story with a player leaving and returning to Australia before the RFL act at the end of the 2016 campaign.

[jpmc]

Your biggest game of the season was last week which seemed poorly attended no Bradford fans there ?.

I dont think 4600 was that bad tbh.It would have been good to have matched the attendance of the opening game,but unfortunately it wasnt to be with a 1000 less bulls fans & couple of thousand Leigh fans missing,i really dont know why they couldnt be bothered. Leigh have made great strides in getting to 3500 home fans but obviously lots of work to do to make that next step to hopefully 4500 fans

[sweaty craiq]

But it didn't.....and only then did the dummy come out!

Derek had already approached the rfl by then, trust me

[sweaty craiq]

The spending spree appears to have started with the signing of Cory Patterson from Salford.

As they offloaded the namesake of the Director of rugby to make way for Dixon and then signed Hock and Higham without offloading any others

it may be that the start of 2016 is going to be interesting.

Then again,it may require a Ned Catic type of story with a player leaving and returning to Australia before the RFL act at the end of the 2016 campaign.

Still not confirmed at Leigh, but that story came out a few months ago, the same time as Hansen and chase

[Barnaby Reddin]

Derek had already approached the rfl by then, trust me

He may have approached the RFL, but the public Spit was timed to perfection.

 

FWIW I believe that Leigh would offer no less than Wakefield in terms of presence in SL, but the reality is that we're probably still 2 clubs top heavy in SL for now. 10,000 fans/4 Million turn over is the break even point and very few can make the 4 million without the 10k fans......so we rely on sugar daddies to prop the mid-bottom of the table up. 

That said, al 24 clubs should be allowed spend the same cap in 2016. This will probably result in a few very one sided games in the championship, but at least it'll give us 29 games in the middle 8 where no club is playing with an arm tied behind its back!

[Padge]

He may have approached the RFL, but the public Spit was timed to perfection.

 

FWIW I believe that Leigh would offer no less than Wakefield in terms of presence in SL, but the reality is that we're probably still 2 clubs top heavy in SL for now. 10,000 fans/4 Million turn over is the break even point and very few can make the 4 million without the 10k fans......so we rely on sugar daddies to prop the mid-bottom of the table up. 

That said, al 24 clubs should be allowed spend the same cap in 2016. This will probably result in a few very one sided games in the championship, but at least it'll give us 29 games in the middle 8 where no club is playing with an arm tied behind its back!

 

Being allowed to spend and having the finances to spend are two very different things, clubs will to try to spend to the limit even though it is obvious they cannot afford it. Once a club goes belly up through over spending are you happy to see them disappear through bankruptcy.

[The Parksider]

Clubs within Super League have the ability to challenge the existing troika at the top of the game because in the majority of cases they have the playing, financial and support base to do so. Those that do not have enough in either of those three categories get relegated under P&R. In addition some events such as the Hull derby are attractive to TV as theatre in their own right and is not the point of "jeopardy" car crash television where clubs desperately avoid dropping down to the lower levels and the financial and playing consequences of doing so.

 

Championship clubs have to earn the right not just to be promoted but also to justify a competitive presence within the top flight and that does not involve subsdising traditional clubs who have very little appeal 10 miles out from their ground let alone to the rest of the UK. 

 

I thought that was a good post RR but......

 

That is a good way of avoiding the question RR, with hand on heart do you really believe that all clubs in the SL satisfy those 3 criteria, by putting the word "majority" in there, you are in fact agreeing with my statement that some members of SL are having an easy ride in terms of funding.

 

I think this reply is very good.

 

Blake Solly was on radio Leeds, I didn't hear it all but I was pleased what I did hear wasn't nonsense about bigger attendances.

 

In essence he said that he's sold the new structure to SKY on the greater interest it provides above a closed shop SL. The purpose of  the play offs for SL was to add interest to the competition in the middle 8 to go with the interest in the top 8.

 

He spoke to SKY about extending funding into the Championship to accommodate a serious middle 8 competition, and they went with it to have more interesting matches. They didn't want to go beyond the top few, so as far as the top championship clubs go they are earning their funding by providing SKY with what they wanted. As far as the bottom four SL clubs go they get far more SKY funding than the top 4 Championship clubs so you have a good point Gary that these SL losers are "getting an easy ride".

 

Solly was asked about tweaking the structure, and he was quick to say he'd look at bringing the registration deadline to earlier in the season to stop SL clubs "emergency spending". When challenged on a higher cap for the Championship he went quite cold on this to the point of giving no real hope it would change.

 

I think Derek Beaumont has picked up on this and is making his protest before the decision is finalised. I can entirely understand why and good luck to him. All he's asking is to spend more of his own money, not SKY's so what's wrong with that??

[Barnaby Reddin]

Being allowed to spend and having the finances to spend are two very different things, clubs will to try to spend to the limit even though it is obvious they cannot afford it. Once a club goes belly up through over spending are you happy to see them disappear through bankruptcy.

 

If clubs and their owners want to go down the boom or bust route then that's business. The RFL should NEVER get involved in the dramas at clubs that have problems and I include London in this too. Bradford should have been left to fend for themselves, London probably should have been stripped of all their points (or at least some) in 2005 and Crusaders shouldn't have ever got anywhere near SL, but if we as a sport wish to learn from this, then we need to let some clubs "go". It's sad, but as in the case of Leeds Utd......it's a fact of sports business life.

The reality is that a chairman will spend millions to get an extra million in funding.....its a sad reality, because what you need to do is plan for a 4 million turn over just to make SL.....to challenge for honours you need 6 million +.....but Leigh for example will currently have an income before central funding of about 1.2 million from gate receipts, sponsorship and merchandise sales. If they had gone up, they'd be on 3 million next year and looking for another 4,000 fans per game to get them anywhere near the break even mark....where are those 4k fans per game or the million going to come from? 

[Padge]

If clubs and their owners want to go down the boom or bust route then that's business. The RFL should NEVER get involved in the dramas at clubs that have problems and I include London in this too. Bradford should have been left to fend for themselves, London probably should have been stripped of all their points (or at least some) in 2005 and Crusaders shouldn't have ever got anywhere near SL, but if we as a sport wish to learn from this, then we need to let some clubs "go". It's sad, but as in the case of Leeds Utd......it's a fact of sports business life.

The reality is that a chairman will spend millions to get an extra million in funding.....its a sad reality, because what you need to do is plan for a 4 million turn over just to make SL.....to challenge for honours you need 6 million +.....but Leigh for example will currently have an income before central funding of about 1.2 million from gate receipts, sponsorship and merchandise sales. If they had gone up, they'd be on 3 million next year and looking for another 4,000 fans per game to get them anywhere near the break even mark....where are those 4k fans per game or the million going to come from? 

 

A plan for bye-bye RL if ever I saw one. You should get a job at Twickenham.

[LeeF]

Hi LeeF, I think that Sweaty has perhaps used the wrong word in "losing" look at my post #92, £20k per match x 3 (60K) was not paid to the club but paid to SL clubs who were playing in the very same competition, not a SL match, a completely different competition against teams from a different competition.

Where money was lost was because of the reduced attendance by the fact the games were televised and on a Saturday afternoon, if the average ticket price was £15 then it would only be around 900 per game to make the £40K shortfall, I would estimate there was less than 300 HKR fans in attendance and maybe 1200max Bulls fans, not counting the other Leigh public who may have attended but decided to stay at home or watched it in a pub, and I know quite a few of those.

Regarding the "non-payments" Mr Beaumont in my opinion as Leigh fan goes way over the top and is to radical at times, but in the interest of fairness (and this is not being a Leigh supporter talking) I would not have allowed the camera's into the ground unless parity was given, and that goes for Halifax also.

Thanks Gary for your take

The play off attendances have traditionally been lower so not a new phenomenon

Being on TV should increase sponsorship opportunities I would have thought

I don't think any RL club can refuse Sky access to matches. Maybe DB missed the facts in the agreement?

[Barnaby Reddin]

A plan for bye-bye RL if ever I saw one. You should get a job at Twickenham.

What?

Did you even read my post?

Please highlight the areas that would result in the end of RL? 

[The Parksider]

If clubs and their owners want to go down the boom or bust route then that's business. The RFL should NEVER get involved in the dramas at clubs that have problems and I include London in this too. The reality is that a chairman will spend millions to get an extra million in funding.....its a sad reality, because what you need to do is plan for a 4 million turn over just to make SL.....to challenge for honours you need 6 million +.....but Leigh for example will currently have an income before central funding of about 1.2 million from gate receipts, sponsorship and merchandise sales. If they had gone up, they'd be on 3 million next year and looking for another 4,000 fans per game to get them anywhere near the break even mark....where are those 4k fans per game or the million going to come from? 

 

That highlighted phrase is very perceptive?.

 

If Derek Beaumont wants to spend £Millions he'd only be following the likes of Ken Davey who took Huddersfield to the top and kept them there to this day.

 

Unless he spends Leigh's own club money and loans money against the Leigh club and puts them in debt.

 

My guess is that Leigh don't have any money spare, and no assets to borrow against. The ground is not theirs but theirs to always play at 

 

So why can't Beaumont ruin himself to the benefit of Leigh RLFC? Why is it OK for Ken Davey to do this and not Beaumont?

 

Ken Davey doesn't need 4,000 extra fans? RL does need free private money??

[sweaty craiq]

If clubs and their owners want to go down the boom or bust route then that's business. The RFL should NEVER get involved in the dramas at clubs that have problems and I include London in this too. Bradford should have been left to fend for themselves, London probably should have been stripped of all their points (or at least some) in 2005 and Crusaders shouldn't have ever got anywhere near SL, but if we as a sport wish to learn from this, then we need to let some clubs "go". It's sad, but as in the case of Leeds Utd......it's a fact of sports business life.

The reality is that a chairman will spend millions to get an extra million in funding.....its a sad reality, because what you need to do is plan for a 4 million turn over just to make SL.....to challenge for honours you need 6 million +.....but Leigh for example will currently have an income before central funding of about 1.2 million from gate receipts, sponsorship and merchandise sales. If they had gone up, they'd be on 3 million next year and looking for another 4,000 fans per game to get them anywhere near the break even mark....where are those 4k fans per game or the million going to come from?

A full cap spend at Leigh in SL does not require that level of income due to the lease agreement, you will know the key is the gap between income and costs, if the costs of opening the doors are low the income required is reduced, anything above 5000 means no director top ups and full cap spend

[Barnaby Reddin]

That highlighted phrase is very perceptive?.

If Derek Beaumont wants to spend £Millions he'd only be following the likes of Ken Davey who took Huddersfield to the top and kept them there to this day.

Unless he spends Leigh's own club money and loans money against the Leigh club and puts them in debt.

My guess is that Leigh don't have any money spare, and no assets to borrow against. The ground is not theirs but theirs to always play at

So why can't Beaumont ruin himself to the benefit of Leigh RLFC? Why is it OK for Ken Davey to do this and not Beaumont?

Ken Davey doesn't need 4,000 extra fans? RL does need free private money??

Beaumont has a two year plan........that's short termism at its finest.

[longboard]

That highlighted phrase is very perceptive?.

 

If Derek Beaumont wants to spend £Millions he'd only be following the likes of Ken Davey who took Huddersfield to the top and kept them there to this day.

 

Unless he spends Leigh's own club money and loans money against the Leigh club and puts them in debt.

 

My guess is that Leigh don't have any money spare, and no assets to borrow against. The ground is not theirs but theirs to always play at 

 

So why can't Beaumont ruin himself to the benefit of Leigh RLFC? Why is it OK for Ken Davey to do this and not Beaumont?

 

Ken Davey doesn't need 4,000 extra fans? RL does need free private money??

 

Parky, it's 'Davy.'

[Manx RL]

Apparently you can run a full time team of 28 players on an average cost per player of £28.5k

[Padge]

What?

Did you even read my post?

Please highlight the areas that would result in the end of RL? 

 

The whole of it, there was nothing to highlight, the whole proposal was old fashioned nonsense 

[Barnaby Reddin]

The whole of it, there was nothing to highlight, the whole proposal was old fashioned nonsense 

So you're just Lazy then?

I fail to see how saying that if clubs want to overspend then they should fend for themselves when it goes wrong is either a proposal or old fashioned. The FACT is that there's more expense in running a RL club than the wages of the team and that 4 million is the break even figure....look at the clubs in profit in SL and the ones that aren't. Chairmen and fans thinking the extra funding is going to make a difference are dreaming....Bradford went #### up with 7k fans....and leigh currently have half that number!

What's old fashioned or nonsense about suggesting prudence? The Leigh chairman has already shown his hand by wearing his heart on his sleeve in terms of this years failings.....screaming that he'll spend more next year doesn't bode well if they fail again!

[The Parksider]

Beaumont has a two year plan........that's short termism at its finest.

 

Well if it takes two years to change places with someone like Wakey, then it's a pretty good plan.

 

Because it put's Leigh into the advantaged position of getting far more SKY money than the championship clubs.

 

I feel we have been here before my friend, so I'll go with what Padge says......