Jump to content

Rugby History Thread


Padge
 Share

Recommended Posts

8 minutes ago, bowes said:

Dewsbury Celtic seem to have a long history given they’re listed in the Heavy Woollen District League above 

Think they claim to date back to the 1870s, under the name Dewsbury Shamrocks, and switched between football and rugby at various points.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


The "ordinary" match featuring South Shields is interesting - they weren't voted into the league until 1902 as far as I know, so this might have been a friendly right at the formation of the club?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Padge said:

Here is a full(ish) fixture list for Saturday 9th November 1901. The keen eyed may spot that Hull KR are playing in the Lancashire Senior Competition against Altrincham.

 SNIP

 

 

I've found similar lists in Manchester newspapers which include the Manchester and District League teams playing in a structure presumably below (or in parallel to) the Lancs comps listed here.

In Bury or North Manchester? Interested in Rugby League? Check out the Rugby League in Bury web-site: http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/burybroncos/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, JonM said:

The "ordinary" match featuring South Shields is interesting - they weren't voted into the league until 1902 as far as I know, so this might have been a friendly right at the formation of the club?

They played a season of friendlies the year before joining the league 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, JonM said:

The "ordinary" match featuring South Shields is interesting - they weren't voted into the league until 1902 as far as I know, so this might have been a friendly right at the formation of the club?

I think that Northern Union games that are not played for league points or in a cup round  where classed as Ordinary Matches., generally speaking that would only leave friendlies as I can't think of anything else they could be. I presume if clubs for whatever reason had a vacant slot in their fixtures they would arrange a friendly, something that would never happen these days mid season.

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, bowes said:

They played a season of friendlies the year before joining the league 

Yes, I read that, but Leeds and Castleford played an Ordinary Match around the same time at Headingly. So that was a mid-season friendly.

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've posted about historic club colours in the past, but this might fill in some gaps. From the Athletic news (3rd November 1902), where the newspaper responds to a reader's question about the Northern Union club colours.

DIVISION ONE:

Batley: Cerise and fawn

Bradford: Red, amber and black

Brighouse: Red, black and amber

Broughton Rangers: Navy blue and white hoops

Halifax: Blue and white

Huddersfield: White*

Hull: Black

Hull KR: White^

Hunslet: White and chocolate

Leigh: Red and white

Oldham: Red and white

Runcorn: Myrtle green

Salford: Red

St Helens: Red, amber and black#

Swinton: Navy blue

Warrington: Primrose and blue

Widnes: Broad black and white hoops

Wigan: Cherry and white

SECOND DIVISION:

Barrow: Red and black

Birkenhead: Blue and white

Bramley: Cerise and fawn (Not sure about this. Error/mix-up with Batley?)

Castleford: Blue and yellow squares

Dewsbury: Red, amber and black

Holbeck: Blue and white

Keighley: White

Lancaster: Red and white

Leeds: White

Manningham: Claret and Amber

Millom: Navy blue

Morecambe: Royal blue and white

Normanton: Black and white stripes

Rochdale Hornets: White

South Shields: Black and white

Stockport: Claret

Wakefield Trinity: Blue and red, broad red band around the waist, arms and legs

York: Amber and black

 

 

*It wasn't uncommon for Huddersfield to wear white with claret and gold trim at various points throughout their history.

^Hull KR usually wore red shirts with a navy blue band.

#These were also the colours of St Helens Recreation, but they didn't join the league until much later. Can anybody shed any light on this? I believe the earliest colours were white and blue.

Minä rakastan rugbyliigaa!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I similar article in the Athletic News on the 8th of April 1907 gave the same information, with the following additions:

Bramley: Black and amber

Huddersfield: Claret and gold

Hull: Black and white

Liverpool City: Black (I was unaware of this)

St Helens: Amber and black (seems it took them a while to settle on colours)

 

Minä rakastan rugbyliigaa!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/30/2018 at 1:45 PM, AB Knight said:

I don't have a link as i read it in a few scrapbooks of news articles before they were given to York a City Knights to archive.

It's modern history compared to some of the great articles on here, but I was amazed to read just before the advent of Super League York were looking at teaming up with Gateshead to gain a place, York even went as far as playing a home match in Gatsehead. I'm not sure if the suggestion was the teams would merge or that York would simply take the best Gateshead players and split home matches between the two places. I of course knew all about the Calder merger suggestions (Cas/Wakefield/Featherstone) but not this. 

Anyone know anymore? 

Know this is not related at all but I was digging through some of the articles I had for my book the other day and thought as a york fan you may be interested in this:

 

WillesdenChronicleSep6th35p12.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, RP London said:

 Know this is not related at all but I was digging through some of the articles I had for my book the other day and thought as a york fan you may be interested in this:

 

WillesdenChronicleSep6th35p12.jpg

An interesting read, thank you, there's a lot of Rugby League history which people like me who only started watching the sport in '96 maybe aren't aware of so it's good to learn a bit. Thanks again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Moomintroll said:

I've posted about historic club colours in the past, but this might fill in some gaps. From the Athletic news (3rd November 1902), where the newspaper responds to a reader's question about the Northern Union club colours.

DIVISION ONE:

Batley: Cerise and fawn

Bradford: Red, amber and black

Brighouse: Red, black and amber

Broughton Rangers: Navy blue and white hoops

Halifax: Blue and white

Huddersfield: White*

Hull: Black

Hull KR: White^

Hunslet: White and chocolate

Leigh: Red and white

Oldham: Red and white

Runcorn: Myrtle green

Salford: Red

St Helens: Red, amber and black#

Swinton: Navy blue

Warrington: Primrose and blue

Widnes: Broad black and white hoops

Wigan: Cherry and white

SECOND DIVISION:

Barrow: Red and black

Birkenhead: Blue and white

Bramley: Cerise and fawn (Not sure about this. Error/mix-up with Batley?)

Castleford: Blue and yellow squares

Dewsbury: Red, amber and black

Holbeck: Blue and white

Keighley: White

Lancaster: Red and white

Leeds: White

Manningham: Claret and Amber

Millom: Navy blue

Morecambe: Royal blue and white

Normanton: Black and white stripes

Rochdale Hornets: White

South Shields: Black and white

Stockport: Claret

Wakefield Trinity: Blue and red, broad red band around the waist, arms and legs

York: Amber and black

 

 

*It wasn't uncommon for Huddersfield to wear white with claret and gold trim at various points throughout their history.

^Hull KR usually wore red shirts with a navy blue band.

#These were also the colours of St Helens Recreation, but they didn't join the league until much later. Can anybody shed any light on this? I believe the earliest colours were white and blue.

St Helens Recs existed as a Rugby club until 1898 and switched to soccer before switching back to Rugby in 1913

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
On 5/31/2018 at 8:33 PM, Padge said:

Yes, I read that, but Leeds and Castleford played an Ordinary Match around the same time at Headingly. So that was a mid-season friendly.

At the outset of matches no classification of games was required.  The introduction of games in organised competitions such as the Yorkshire Cup led to a distinction between cup games and the ‘ordinary’ games clubs have previously played.  The term was in common use by the time of the breakaway, and was retained post-1895 by which time ordinary matches were very much in the minority for most clubs, given the domination of fixture lists with officially organised competitive games (my own club played only a handful between 1895 and 1914).

Whilst we commonly refer to all ‘non-official’ games now as ‘friendlies’, this is a relatively recent phenomenon.  Originally referred to as ordinary matches, they were later usually noted as ‘exhibition’ games, when being played between teams on neutral venues in new areas, or under the title of a local cup that was up for grabs (e.g. the Lazenby Cup or Wardonia Cup), or as a ‘testimonial’ or ‘charity’ match, with ‘friendly’ games replacing ‘ordinary’ games as the common term for anything not meeting some other description.  Interestingly association teams seemed to use the ‘friendly’ term rather than ‘ordinary’ more widely, and earlier, compared to the northern rugby clubs.

Friendly has become pretty much ubiquitous as the term for all these games now, with the other names being merely a subset of this group.

In my own records, I’ve labelled any non-competitive game as ‘ordinary’ until 1914/5, and then after that as ‘friendly’: this really is a matter of semantics, as neither are included in my statistical records (following the convention of the Record Keepers Club used for post-1895 games), but I draw the distinction out of respect for the terms used at the time, even if my cut-off point is slightly arbitrary.  That said, the use of the term ‘ordinary’ after this time is rare, and the term ‘friendly’ matches seems to be in regular use following the suspension of competitive games for the 1915/16 season, when all games were arranged on a friendly basis.

 

Edited by Neil_Ormston
  • Like 1

For more information on the Rugby League Record Keepers' Club please visit our official website at www.rugbyleaguerecords.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Talking of history, I'm currently watching the Roses Legends match on Freesports TV. Some fond memories when I see those players.

  • Like 1

"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Since there is a topic running which is discussing a lot that is in here I thought I would give it a bump.

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

@millsjim44
GB Tour 1979, George Nicholls and Peter Glynn in Australia with their T Shirts in my support after New Zealand refused to allow me to play in NZ.

Drk8IKTX4AIm1le.jpg

"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/&ved=2ahUKEwi9iIf22creAhVBQBoKHc4yD0gQFjAAegQIBhAD&usg=AOvVaw3TZ61V85nKIVdSOvXq9mvd

Sorry if its already been posted but an ongoing project listing every club, player  fixtures  tables etc etc. 

A massive project and a lot is incomplete but some great reading for guys who like stats. 

Example 

Lancashire Cup.. https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/competitions/lancashire-cup/summary.html

Then click on the game and its all detailed. 

Edited by yanto
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/9/2018 at 7:21 PM, Futtocks said:

GB Tour 1979, George Nicholls and Peter Glynn in Australia with their T Shirts in my support after New Zealand refused to allow me to play in NZ.



Great picture of 2 Saints greats.

Funnily enough saw the clip of Big Jim on You tube the other day - innocent perhaps stretching it a  bit

Peter Glynn - part of the 1976 Dads Army victory at Wembley if I recall

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, headtackle said:

Funnily enough saw the clip of Big Jim on You tube the other day - innocent perhaps stretching it a  bit

If Big Jim says he was innocent, it'd take a much bigger man than me to disagree.

"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Futtocks said:

If Big Jim says he was innocent, it'd take a much bigger man than me to disagree.

Big Jim didn't say he was innocent, it was just his mates left and right.

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

A special anniversary today!

Dvulis2WoAEqrVA.jpg

"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Observations?

 

Observer29-01-1890.thumb.jpg.1194bb23739498de269e16637a8da9a3.jpgwiganVaspullRL18901.thumb.jpg.21ece4a3be950a0ffc37250546c9bb6d.jpg

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Padge said:

Observations?

 

Observer29-01-1890.thumb.jpg.1194bb23739498de269e16637a8da9a3.jpgwiganVaspullRL18901.thumb.jpg.21ece4a3be950a0ffc37250546c9bb6d.jpg

Three initial observations, Padge.

First, thanks for yet another little gem of rugby history; as ever much appreciated.

Second, has rugby always been played over two halves of 40 minutes?  Sports do change their playing conditions rules from time to time.  In my lifetime, for instance, Gaelic football and hurling matches have been extended from 30 minutes each way to 35, while ice hockey abolished the requirement to change ends at the midway (10 minute) point of the third period, because the number of games being played in the open (when weather conditions could be a factor) had diminished so much.

I ask about rugby playing time because if, in January, they didn't kick off until 3.20pm, and had some sort of half-time break (say, 10 minutes), even with no time added on, they would not have finished until 4.50pm.  How could anybody - players, referee, spectators - see what was going on?

Third, the cutting reminds us that, in the industrial north at least, league competitions were being pursued, whether or not the London-based RFU liked the idea!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

I ask about rugby playing time because if, in January, they didn't kick off until 3.20pm, and had some sort of half-time break (say, 10 minutes), even with no time added on, they would not have finished until 4.50pm.  How could anybody - players, referee, spectators - see what was going on?

Daylight Saving wasn't introduced until 1916, so the clocks wouldn't have gone back, thus 1890's 4.50pm would be modern day 3.50pm. I think!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...