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Blind side johnny

NZ Test Series - ticket sales

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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

id be interested to see what we would get if we took a France or Tonga game to elland road. Even if we got 20-25k surely that is better than 7k at Leigh or even 15k at Headingley.

I like these games. England v france at headingley 2005 guess the crowd - ps clue is its less than 3000, substantially less

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42 minutes ago, thehullram said:

Yesterday felt like an ‘event’. I took 2 non rugby girls (10 and 15 years old), don’t think they understood the rugby, but loved the build up, the remembrance ceremony, the anthems, Haka, fireworks, free flags, dust ups, drum and Mexican wave. Went back home saying they loved it. If they had come to Hull (as I did) there is no way I would have got them to another match 

To be fair, when you look at England/GB's record when the crowd is big, pumped up and enthusiastic, you can almost see why they try to make the games as low-key as possible.

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I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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I'm guessing that New Zealand aren't playing France before they head home then?

I had Saturday 17th November marked down as a possible date for a game - can't remember where I read it - but I guess that never materialised.

Just had a look on NZRL website and there's nothing about a Kiwis game before Tonga next June.

Shame really, because France need to play these sorts of matches, if they're ever going to develop on and off the field.

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2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

id be interested to see what we would get if we took a France or Tonga game to elland road. Even if we got 20-25k surely that is better than 7k at Leigh or even 15k at Headingley.

I think it would depend on a variety of factors. For example, whether it was a one-off game, or part of a structured competition. Ticket prices and promotion are obviously relevant too. The make up of the teams - such as whether France and Tonga were at full strength - is also important.

We need to remember that people are far more easily able to access information nowadays than ever before. Plus there are a lot more alternative things to watch than there used to be. I know that, as someone who likes a wide variety of sports, I have to organise my time and prioritise the things that I really want to see. I'm sure plenty of other people are doing likewise.

I will also do a bit of research in advance to find out information about the sorts of things I mentioned above - I'll check out likely team lineups, find out more about the tournament (if it is one). If I don't think that what is on offer is worth my time, I simply won't bother with it.

It is a fiercely competitive market out there nowadays. Diehard fans of any sport, will always tend to watch, because they're deeply involved in the game. But if you're trying to compete for the attention of the casual fans, you need things that are pretty special. Otherwise people just won't bother to tune in.

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Versus France we have seen our crowds range from 5k to 20k. And those fluctuations had nothing to do with the standard of game. It has been to do with the status and organisation of the games.

Other sports fans are not stupid and they go to support their national team in expected on sided games. 

We seem embarrassed and tuck games away on a weds in Leigh.

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Just to pick up on my last point, one (among several) of the problems I have with the Great Britain tour, is that it's a bit aimless. Yes, it's nice to play some different teams, but there isn't any real purpose to it. It's not a tournament or anything structured - it's just Great Britain playing against a few different teams. There's no trophy to be won, there's no title to be awarded - it's just playing matches.

Even football - with all its popularity - realised that their international matches needed a revamp. It wasn't enough just to play random friendly matches (and I know that the GB matches aren't friendlies as such, but what are they for exactly?) and people were losing interest. I rarely would bother watching an England friendly, but since the Nations League thing came along - and we're playing better teams (Spain, Croatia) in a 'meaningful' competition, I'm much more interested. Times have changed and people have maybe become more expectant and demanding.

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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

But they do turn up depending on how a game is presented though. Its not just because it is at Elland Road but because it is presented as an important match.

If we held it at Headingley people wouldnt turn up and would be proof that even headingley was too much. We are constantly starting from a point of how many tickets we didnt sell and not how many we did.

I have no doubt we would sell more tickets to the game at Elland Road than we would at Headingley, just as we would sell more at headingley than we would at Cas or Leigh.

The evidence is there in black and white. London delivers some of the best crowds. New/rarer grounds deliver better crowds. 

There isn't an argument for not making games events,  apart from it being cheap.

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1 hour ago, sweaty craiq said:

I like these games. England v france at headingley 2005 guess the crowd - ps clue is its less than 3000, substantially less

Go on then, I'll bite. Date & result of this match in 2005 please.

I watched GB v NZ at Loftus Road that year with about 15k there. 

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1 hour ago, sweaty craiq said:

I like these games. England v france at headingley 2005 guess the crowd - ps clue is its less than 3000, substantially less

Wasn't this played the day after the full GB game in the 4N. Effectively England Knights? Bit misleading I think 

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40 minutes ago, JonM said:

Go on then, I'll bite. Date & result of this match in 2005 please.

I watched GB v NZ at Loftus Road that year with about 15k there. 

I can find no trace of this 2005 game at Headingley in 2005, from the usually reliable rugbyleagueproject.org.

They did have a game in 2006 which had 5.5k there. Higher than the recent crowd in Leigh for a stronger team.

It was not a Test match, not a full England team, was coached by Paul Cullen, led by Rob Purdham with Jamie Rooney as his halfback partner.

The full RFL team (GB) was in Christchurch the week later playing the Kiwis.

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

Versus France we have seen our crowds range from 5k to 20k. And those fluctuations had nothing to do with the standard of game. It has been to do with the status and organisation of the games.

Other sports fans are not stupid and they go to support their national team in expected on sided games. 

We seem embarrassed and tuck games away on a weds in Leigh.

When did we get 20k for an England/GB-France warm up game? The only huge crowd for this fixture I can remember is the one at Wigan in the world cup.

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22 minutes ago, M j M said:

When did we get 20k for an England/GB-France warm up game? The only huge crowd for this fixture I can remember is the one at Wigan in the world cup.

I didn't suggest we got 20k for a warm up game.

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29 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I didn't suggest we got 20k for a warm up game.

OK understood, but the key thing with France is the standard of the games.

What we can't and shouldn't do is promote France as a top level test match when it's just the warm up game. That's why I think some (certainly not all) of the criticism of the France game at Leigh was unjustified. The game was for players who hadn't played for a while to get back into it ahead of the Kiwis series and for Bennett to try out a few things. It wasn't supposed to be full strength vs full strength with serious things at stake. Fans knew that and the positioning of the game reflected it.

You can justifiably argue that we should make more of the French games which would require both sides to be full strength and maybe some sort of trophy. Home and away each year would be good. But that isn't something the sport has committed to logistically at the moment so what we are left with is something which is much more difficult to promote and almost by design of a lower standard.

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44 minutes ago, M j M said:

OK understood, but the key thing with France is the standard of the games.

What we can't and shouldn't do is promote France as a top level test match when it's just the warm up game. That's why I think some (certainly not all) of the criticism of the France game at Leigh was unjustified. The game was for players who hadn't played for a while to get back into it ahead of the Kiwis series and for Bennett to try out a few things. It wasn't supposed to be full strength vs full strength with serious things at stake. Fans knew that and the positioning of the game reflected it.

You can justifiably argue that we should make more of the French games which would require both sides to be full strength and maybe some sort of trophy. Home and away each year would be good. But that isn't something the sport has committed to logistically at the moment so what we are left with is something which is much more difficult to promote and almost by design of a lower standard.

I think the criticism of the France game is justified in that it was low even by warm up standards. I quoted the stat about it a few weeks back, maybe even the lowest ever in the UK for this full game. It was a Test match and caps were awarded. In other sports, a similar game wouldn't be tucked away like this without any attempt to make the event something special.

I accept that there is a challenge around France's ability to compete in these games, however we can attract a half decent crowd in France already, and the real challenge is to make England RL attractive, rather than the team we are playing.

Living in Edinburgh it is very interesting to see how Scotland RU have improved and grown their Autumn Internationals. They sold out versus Fiji the other day! People want to go and watch Scotland RU, it is an event, it is their team.

England RL don't feel like my team, games are so sporadic, there is no presence anywhere, we put the minimum effort in, we get out what we deserve. TBH it surprises me the crowds are as decent as they are.

Watching England RL should be a draw. People should be excited about seeing Sam Burgess, James Graham, Makinson, Widdopp etc. Sponsors should be all over these stars. That won't happen without on going effort, every single time, no half assed measures, no gap years, no treating fans with contempt.

This is the pinnacle of RL, it should be treated with the respect it deserves. 

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