17 Oct: Test Match: England v France KO 7.45pm

[JohnM]

I've had my say, so was going to leave it at that. However......last night's fiasco was an object lesson in how NOT to launch a new product or service. Too involved to go into full detsils here, but who has been asked for feedback by the RFL? What demand, load, performance modelling was carried out in advance? Beta testing? Etc. Its taken my focus away from the actual game, largely because I only saw a few minutes, so can only write about what I saw....which was ###### all. Then there's the reputation damage. Good job the BBC and Sky ignored it on the news!!!!!

[DavidM]

It’s always interesting reading Bennett’s statements . At times he talks like he has virtually zero knowledge of some of the players playing for him . Apologies if that’s just a perception but it always seems a tad strange 

[Dave T]

8 minutes ago, JohnM said:

I've had my say, so was going to leave it at that. However......last night's fiasco was an object lesson in how NOT to launch a new product or service. Too involved to go into full detsils here, but who has been asked for feedback by the RFL? What demand, load, performance modelling was carried out in advance? Beta testing? Etc. Its taken my focus away from the actual game, largely because I only saw a few minutes, so can only write about what I saw....which was ###### all. Then there's the reputation damage. Good job the BBC and Sky ignored it on the news!!!!!

The problem here as well is that this wasn't the first bit of streaming they have done.

They started last year, admittedly not through the app, but they streamed the Samoa game - after that they declared that they shouldn't be putting England games on there and they would be looking to get them on TV rather than that approach. They will have numbers of users from that, although they did charge a fee.

They then streamed the WC warmup game vs that team in Perth - games like that seem fine, they will never be covered by the BBC for example. They will have the numbers for that.

They also have the numbers from the BBC for the streaming of the Challenge Cup.

They then have streamed the L1 games in recent weeks.

I'd be stunned if the numbers last night were so high as to cause issues, and tbh, for an England RL game, they should be using a platform that can handle a decent amount, as it is more high profile.

On the actual presentation, the bits I did see I think some people are being a touch harsh, I don't like JJB (as a presenter), I can't understand him and I don't think any other sport would have him presenting - but I was impressed that they had Natalie Quirk(?) and that they had a few cameras and did pre-match interviews etc. I expected it to be a far cheaper production. They then cheapened it with a rubbish slow animation for replays, but that is nitpicking somewhat.

So it seemed ok, just a pity I couldn't watch it.

[usain bolt]

1 hour ago, Chrispmartha said:

Again if you read my post I’m saying if it being on TV wasn’t an option should they have just not bothered broadcasting it all?

It needs to be broadcast as regularly as possible to all and sundry, whether the product was upto scratch is another discussion but preventing people with no option other than the stream isn't a solution. 

[graveyard johnny]

streams are for frogs to swim in, not watch sport on, it should be simple to watch a game not an ordeal

[Dunbar]

19 hours ago, DavidM said:

It’s always interesting reading Bennett’s statements . At times he talks like he has virtually zero knowledge of some of the players playing for him . Apologies if that’s just a perception but it always seems a tad strange 

Could be a good thing. He can judge them with an open mind. We are always saying that some are selected based on reputation and/or what club they play for. Bennett strikes me as the kind of guy who leaves these things at the door.

[Chrispmartha]

1 hour ago, usain bolt said:

It needs to be broadcast as regularly as possible to all and sundry, whether the product was upto scratch is another discussion but preventing people with no option other than the stream isn't a solution. 

You’re asuming any broadcasters wanted to show it, we don’t know if they were approached 

[usain bolt]

12 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

You’re asuming any broadcasters wanted to show it, we don’t know if they were approached 

I'd hope they were approached, if not its certainly a backward step. 

[Lowdesert]

Can’t be bothered to read the other 23 pages but I thought we were going to get a really good production but I experienced glitches.  Just stopped prior to kick off and kept doing it, maybe 5 or 6 times.  Thought there’d be some kind of apology/reason given on Our League, but nowt.  

No way I’d consider any kind of subscription if that was the offering in future.  

Video aside, I hope Elston saw the game and vows to make sure every England game in the future is played on a weekend and on live TV.

 

[Old Frightful]

22 hours ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

Great to see spitefull and co squirming - give it all you’ve got lads you’ve been shown up for the know nothing smucks you really are LOL

Tom Johnstone scored three tries. All three were practically handed to him on a plate...by Hull FC players no less.

And because TJ gets three walk in tries we "know nothing".

I think you owe us an explanation.

[paulwalker71]

2 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

Video aside, I hope Elston saw the game and vows to make sure every England game in the future is played on a weekend and on live TV.

I thought that was an RFL decision - nothing to do with Elstone

[Damien]

The Our League App is a typical half assed effort by a RFL that don't really know what they are doing or what they are trying to achieve. I've made my views on this many times over, particularly when they declined BBC coverage to stream the Samoa game, so will not repeat myself on some aspects.

One thing though that is becoming increasingly apparent recently is that the RFL are completely going down the wrong path with this. We are a sport that really struggles for any media coverage and which struggles selling out our big events and things like internationals. Yet we are now seemingly obsessed to pushing everyone to the Our League app for things like England games and even discounts for games. The very things we should be trying to push to a wide audience and not the converted. Non RL fans simply will never know about this app or what it is showing, never mind the fact that some RL fans wont even do.

RL doesn't have a huge market to aim for as it is and we are making it even smaller with this strategy. Yes by all means continue with the Our League app but it should be for additional content and extras. It shouldn't be for premium content that should be shown to a large audience to expand the game. If we are to stream hard sell big events like more minor England matches put them on YouTube for free and target a mass audience, raise awareness, generate advertising revenue etc. Use your discounts for the NZ test series during that. Any meagre revenue generated by putting these on the Our League App could easily be outstripped by additional revenue and ticket sales  from hitting a wider audience. Build an audience for the content first and use it to grow the game and attendances. We are not Football or even the NRL that has the audience where we can hide this stuff away.

[Lowdesert]

20 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

I thought that was an RFL decision - nothing to do with Elstone

I’ll stand corrected mate but imo every England game should be on live tv and a weekend.  

We should try and make every game a big occasion, no matter what opposition.

 

[Dunbar]

I actually quite like the Our League App and the Rugby-League.com websites.  The news sections are usually well populated and the web site in particular has wide coverage of the overall game.  It looks like some decent dev has gone into these two.  It is the streaming efforts and the login page to the membership part of the app that let's it down.  Clearly these were 'phase 2' and not good enough for Wednesday.

Despite this though I am with many on these boards and articulated well by Damien above, we should not be narrowing the content into these two platforms.  It is sensible to have apps and content for hard core fans but the public reach of the sport is vital to success and so all England games (and as many others as possible) should be on national broadcast channels or open platforms such as YouTube and Facebook.

[paulwalker71]

30 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

I’ll stand corrected mate but imo every England game should be on live tv and a weekend.  

We should try and make every game a big occasion, no matter what opposition.

 

No arguments from me on that

[Dave T]

By my reckoning (well, rugbyleagueproject.org!) - this was the lowest crowd in England for a proper GB/Eng (RFL Primary team) game since 1971 when we got 4.1k vs NZ at Castleford.

Good job folks.

[Dave T]

12 hours ago, Damien said:

The Our League App is a typical half assed effort by a RFL that don't really know what they are doing or what they are trying to achieve. I've made my views on this many times over, particularly when they declined BBC coverage to stream the Samoa game, so will not repeat myself on some aspects.

One thing though that is becoming increasingly apparent recently is that the RFL are completely going down the wrong path with this. We are a sport that really struggles for any media coverage and which struggles selling out our big events and things like internationals. Yet we are now seemingly obsessed to pushing everyone to the Our League app for things like England games and even discounts for games. The very things we should be trying to push to a wide audience and not the converted. Non RL fans simply will never know about this app or what it is showing, never mind the fact that some RL fans wont even do.

RL doesn't have a huge market to aim for as it is and we are making it even smaller with this strategy. Yes by all means continue with the Our League app but it should be for additional content and extras. It shouldn't be for premium content that should be shown to a large audience to expand the game. If we are to stream hard sell big events like more minor England matches put them on YouTube for free and target a mass audience, raise awareness, generate advertising revenue etc. Use your discounts for the NZ test series during that. Any meagre revenue generated by putting these on the Our League App could easily be outstripped by additional revenue and ticket sales  from hitting a wider audience. Build an audience for the content first and use it to grow the game and attendances. We are not Football or even the NRL that has the audience where we can hide this stuff away.

Couldn't agree more. I have made the point quite a few times when we discuss this, that things like this should be companion apps, to support our current media platforms, not the main focus.

To me it looks like we are arranging games so we can get people onto a free app, rather than using the app to make things easier to buy tickets, watch content, see stats, vote for MOM etc. The main adverts to sell tickets to this game was also pushing the fact that you can sit on your ass at home and watch it free on the app. And guess what, most people did stay at home! Job done.

[Dave T]

11 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I actually quite like the Our League App and the Rugby-League.com websites.  The news sections are usually well populated and the web site in particular has wide coverage of the overall game.  It looks like some decent dev has gone into these two.  It is the streaming efforts and the login page to the membership part of the app that let's it down.  Clearly these were 'phase 2' and not good enough for Wednesday.

Despite this though I am with many on these boards and articulated well by Damien above, we should not be narrowing the content into these two platforms.  It is sensible to have apps and content for hard core fans but the public reach of the sport is vital to success and so all England games (and as many others as possible) should be on national broadcast channels or open platforms such as YouTube and Facebook.

The app itself is a nice enough platform. It doesn;t do enough to make me want to visit it - I actually think things like live stats, or highlights of other games would work.

Sky show very few stats, I always like to see stats during a game, at least at half time, this was great during the World Cup where the Aussies have the infrastructure, but it has never materialised for SL. 

I think being at a game and having stats to hand at half time, or being able to watch replays of the tries could be a great discussion point over a beer with your mates. Or watching the Sky game you can see the other tries almost live, a bit like Sky used to show and most other sports now show.

It would make things like this forum more interesting during games as it brings alive a few games at once.

The way they have it - video interviews (I Have little interest in hearing stock player answers) and voting for the MOM is so old fashioned.

[Gerrumonside ref]

12 hours ago, Damien said:

The Our League App is a typical half assed effort by a RFL that don't really know what they are doing or what they are trying to achieve. I've made my views on this many times over, particularly when they declined BBC coverage to stream the Samoa game, so will not repeat myself on some aspects.

One thing though that is becoming increasingly apparent recently is that the RFL are completely going down the wrong path with this. We are a sport that really struggles for any media coverage and which struggles selling out our big events and things like internationals. Yet we are now seemingly obsessed to pushing everyone to the Our League app for things like England games and even discounts for games. The very things we should be trying to push to a wide audience and not the converted. Non RL fans simply will never know about this app or what it is showing, never mind the fact that some RL fans wont even do.

RL doesn't have a huge market to aim for as it is and we are making it even smaller with this strategy. Yes by all means continue with the Our League app but it should be for additional content and extras. It shouldn't be for premium content that should be shown to a large audience to expand the game. If we are to stream hard sell big events like more minor England matches put them on YouTube for free and target a mass audience, raise awareness, generate advertising revenue etc. Use your discounts for the NZ test series during that. Any meagre revenue generated by putting these on the Our League App could easily be outstripped by additional revenue and ticket sales  from hitting a wider audience. Build an audience for the content first and use it to grow the game and attendances. We are not Football or even the NRL that has the audience where we can hide this stuff away.

Nailed it.

[Damien]

4 hours ago, Dave T said:

Couldn't agree more. I have made the point quite a few times when we discuss this, that things like this should be companion apps, to support our current media platforms, not the main focus.

To me it looks like we are arranging games so we can get people onto a free app, rather than using the app to make things easier to buy tickets, watch content, see stats, vote for MOM etc. The main adverts to sell tickets to this game was also pushing the fact that you can sit on your ass at home and watch it free on the app. And guess what, most people did stay at home! Job done.

Yeah I completely agree with this and your other posts. I know you think I am overly critical of the RFL at times but to me this is just more evidence of a lack of joined up strategy and thinking and to be honest I'm just sick to death of it. We seem to just lurch from poor decision to poor decision with little thought of the consequences. Its like cause and effect doesn't register at all  The constant pushing of the app just makes it seem like one big vanity project so that Rimmer can say we have X amount of subscribers and to hell with the low attendances and lack of awareness that this may cause or indeed the lost revenue in the process.

Focus on doing a few simple things really well with the app and build on that. Things that us as RL fans find hard to see and hear about because of our lack of media presence. Stats, tickets, information, MOM votes, news and maybe streaming of amateur and lower league games if possible i.e games that are never going to be shown on TV and which non RL fans aren't going to be interested in anyway. Never though lock away our blue chip content that should be used to sell and market the game.

I would also have simple games to get kids interested too incorporated to the website, app and standalone. Really simple games already exist on Google Play and these can easily be done for RL, American Football games where you try to score touchdowns, Rugby kicking goals etc. There can be trading card games too. These are simple apps that can be downloaded for free but reach a wide young audience and importantly get youngsters interested in the sport and create personalities and raise awareness of our players.

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

22 hours ago, Damien said:

The Our League App is a typical half assed effort by a RFL that don't really know what they are doing or what they are trying to achieve. I've made my views on this many times over, particularly when they declined BBC coverage to stream the Samoa game, so will not repeat myself on some aspects.

One thing though that is becoming increasingly apparent recently is that the RFL are completely going down the wrong path with this. We are a sport that really struggles for any media coverage and which struggles selling out our big events and things like internationals. Yet we are now seemingly obsessed to pushing everyone to the Our League app for things like England games and even discounts for games. The very things we should be trying to push to a wide audience and not the converted. Non RL fans simply will never know about this app or what it is showing, never mind the fact that some RL fans wont even do.

RL doesn't have a huge market to aim for as it is and we are making it even smaller with this strategy. Yes by all means continue with the Our League app but it should be for additional content and extras. It shouldn't be for premium content that should be shown to a large audience to expand the game. If we are to stream hard sell big events like more minor England matches put them on YouTube for free and target a mass audience, raise awareness, generate advertising revenue etc. Use your discounts for the NZ test series during that. Any meagre revenue generated by putting these on the Our League App could easily be outstripped by additional revenue and ticket sales  from hitting a wider audience. Build an audience for the content first and use it to grow the game and attendances. We are not Football or even the NRL that has the audience where we can hide this stuff away.

The biggest problem is they cant grasp how one thing can leverage another.

It wouldnt havd been hard to create audience figures across youtube and facebook that would have been headline grabbing.

Ralph Rimmers job is to coordinate with Elstone.

Make sure the clubs are onboard with using all the promotional assets available to the sport.

Plan was simple on this one getting an audience bigger than you get on sky tv because it was free to view.

You then take those figures to your sponsors and tv companies and get a deal for money in the future.

Thats when you can use the hearns to create events.

The RFL need to grasp the fact they cant stick with the jobs for boys yes man culture.

Free thinking individuals dont toe the line and wont fit with the current culture in our sport.  But they are only way can survive and make progress.

The tables in the temple need kicking over.

 

[Celt]

On 10/18/2018 at 11:58 AM, Dave T said:

It's an England RL game! The first here for 2 years.

It appealed to 5k people.

I watched this - and couldn't believe how few English fans turned out. when was the last time England played at home? it must have been a while.

Eddie Hearn gets more people than that to turn up at his middle-ranking (non PPV) boxing matches. I am talking about an indoor venue, not a stadium... and none of the biggest named fighters. The events are also available on Skype, yet still twice as many people show up.