Australia vs Tonga

[DavidM]

Just now, Dunbar said:

While I agree that Tonga lacked the game management needed to be a top quality international team, the reality is that Australia were not that much better.  Tonga forced 5 goal line dropouts while Australia didn't force one while they gifted Tonga some 7 tackles sets through poor kicks taken on the full in the in goal.  Cooke, Cherry Evans and Keary while good NRL players are nowhere near the class of Smith, Cronk and Thurston.

Australia did enough to win and that is all you can do but I honestly think that New Zealand would have beaten them again today because of the hooker/halves combination.

I’d agree . There’s no real wow factor with that team . They had enough against what was up against them today . A more  savvy side with a more bit creation would have pushed them out of that comfort zone

[Dunbar]

7 minutes ago, DavidM said:

I’d agree . There’s no real wow factor with that team . They had enough against what was up against them today . A more  savvy side with a more bit creation would have pushed them out of that comfort zone

The optimist in me wants to say that I wish England were playing them this year...but I have thought and said that before and its come back to kick me in the ######.

[DavidM]

Just now, Dunbar said:

The optimist in me wants to say that I wish England were playing them this year...but I have thought and said that before and its come back to kick me in the ######.

Interesting to hear big Mal talk up a NH tour but I’m not sure he’s on the same page as anyone else . I’d love to see it mind 

[B rad]

Media wrap up. All very positive. 

https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/australia-defeat-tonga-but-crowd-support-and-atmosphere-the-big-winners-in-the-historic-test-match/news-story/d9d1f17a39273d8d8a7b7327d3f074c2

“It was like a carnival atmosphere. They’re all happy and they all sang the Australian anthem. It was such a good atmosphere, happy, they’re good people and they showed it tonight.”

https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/10/20/tongas-rugby-league-revolution-13-years-in-the-making/

Jason Taumalolo, David Fusitu'a, Siosiua Taukeiaho, Tuimoala Lolohea, Saliva Havili and Ata Hingano all played for Tonga junior teams in end of season tournaments in Auckland.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/live-blog-kangaroos-v-mate-maa-tonga/news-story/8b3716f7947d6e37de03d725a8ae6cc6

And the fans turned out in their droves, with thousands lining up hours before kick-off to produce a sea of red and create a memorable atmosphere in Auckland.

 

 

 

https://www.sportingnews.com/au/rugby-league/news/australia-tonga-singing-fans-atmosphere-crowd-sipi-tau/1av1f7zdyfk671c1j3nba7aizs

"Wow, what a crowd!" Cordner said.

"We wanted this game just as much as Tonga.

"It's all about growing the game and look at this.

"You guys are unbelievable, keep getting behind your team.

"It's an experience none of us have ever seen before.

"It's been the case all week with the Tongan supporters and their country, they're all about respect and they're very humble and we really respect that as a country, so thank you very much."

[B rad]

https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/10/20/tonga-juggernaut-rolls-on-despite-loss-to-kangaroos/

 

The remarkable scenes at Mt Smart Stadium on Saturday night are set to be repeated next year with plans for Tonga to play Tests against New Zealand, Australia and the touring Great Britain Lions, as well as rivals Samoa.

 

 

Lots of good after game interviews here 

https://www.nrl.com/

 

[JohnM]

We're going to be singing like Tongans next Saturday at Hull!

[DoubleD]

4 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Yes, I get that.  But the two players in the Australian team from Tongan decent Felise Kaufusi and Tyson Frizell look like they don't an ounce of fat on them.  It can't be a coincidence that the Australian national team can get these players in top shape but not the Tongan team.

I think that’s a little unfair. The Tongans won’t have been in camp or training for many weeks. Some looked slightly overweight but others weren’t and put in good stints

[DoubleD]

5 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Tedesco is very good.  I think his passing game has improved immensely this year with the Roosters.

Of the 'big four' retirements that Australia have had to replace, Tedesco for Slater has been the easiest for them.

He’ll be displaced by Ponga in the next year or 2, unless they decide to play Ponga at 6

[Dunbar]

35 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

I think that’s a little unfair. The Tongans won’t have been in camp or training for many weeks. Some looked slightly overweight but others weren’t and put in good stints

I know I am coming across as hugely critical but I really thought the Tongans could have done better than they did.

What I do know is that if I were lucky enough and talented enough to represent my country at Rugby League I would ensure I was in the best shape I possibly could be. Do they only have to train when someone tells them to.

[themainbrace]

I'm not going to be critical at all, Tonga were in this game for most of the match.  We now have another nation that can hold their own against the big 3.

[frank]

Considering  the Tongans hadn't played for some weeks and without recognized halfbacks, plus no warm up game, they did all one could  ask of them.

[DoubleD]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

I know I am coming across as hugely critical but I really thought the Tongans could have done better than they did.

What I do know is that if I were lucky enough and talented enough to represent my country at Rugby League I would ensure I was in the best shape I possibly could be. Do they only have to train when someone tells them to.

If teams are in their off season then they are reliant on self training and discipline. I don’t think the majority of them looked any different than during the season, they mainly just lacked match fitness. I’m not sure what you were expecting 

[Harry Stottle]

6 hours ago, DoubleD said:

If teams are in their off season then they are reliant on self training and discipline. I don’t think the majority of them looked any different than during the season, they mainly just lacked match fitness. I’m not sure what you were expecting 

Agreed, and that is just the point I was making earlier, the first instinct of the majority of the Tongan team with Ball in Hand is to try to run over the top of the opposition there is no subtlety to their style of play, they are in the main the first out players who take the ball in or link runners for their clubs, guided and told where and when to run.

Yes, they did exactly what I was expecting, they are a grown up version of an U10's team, ball under the arm and go. Individually they will try to run through a brick wall for their team for that they are commendable, but that is what you get. 

For me this is the way the modern day game is going, it is a direct influence of the multiple interchanges that are allowed, a team can overload with the 'power men' they are not required to have much anaerobic capacity to maintain their endurance they can be exchanged for a 'fresher' man whenever it suits, yesterday there were 10 interchanges permissible. It is taking the skill levels from the game, and I think this Tongan team are the best example of that up to date, I agree with Dunbar, they were mostly in all probability up to their individual condition levels, further I think they are simply playing to their strengths, i.e. impact, tire, replace.

I am under no illusion that they will win more than they will lose, there are only 3 other teams who could match or contain the Tongan's physicallity, in doing so the skill factor should then overcome and be in the favour of those who are capable.

For those of us who are merely spectators of the game It all comes down to individual preferance, I prefare to see a mixture of power but with skill as the main contributor to the proceedings on the pitch, I think modern day rules are eroding the skill factor, cutting back to four interchanges would promote more open play and be much more attractive, unless that it is crash, bang, wallop which is one's preferred mode of entertainment.

[cookey]

Hopefully international rugby league will learn and benefit from this tremendous experience.Well done to all associated with Tonga.

 

[B rad]

16 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Agreed, and that is just the point I was making earlier, the first instinct of the majority of the Tongan team with Ball in Hand is to try to run over the top of the opposition there is no subtlety to their style of play, they are in the main the first out players who take the ball in or link runners for their clubs, guided and told where and when to run.

Yes, they did exactly what I was expecting, they are a grown up version of an U10's team, ball under the arm and go. Individually they will try to run through a brick wall for their team for that they are commendable, but that is what you get. 

For me this is the way the modern day game is going, it is a direct influence of the multiple interchanges that are allowed, a team can overload with the 'power men' they are not required to have much anaerobic capacity to maintain their endurance they can be exchanged for a 'fresher' man whenever it suits, yesterday there were 10 interchanges permissible. It is taking the skill levels from the game, and I think this Tongan team are the best example of that up to date, I agree with Dunbar, they were mostly in all probability up to their individual condition levels, further I think they are simply playing to their strengths, i.e. impact, tire, replace.

I am under no illusion that they will win more than they will lose, there are only 3 other teams who could match or contain the Tongan's physicallity, in doing so the skill factor should then overcome and be in the favour of those who are capable.

For those of us who are merely spectators of the game It all comes down to individual preferance, I prefare to see a mixture of power but with skill as the main contributor to the proceedings on the pitch, I think modern day rules are eroding the skill factor, cutting back to four interchanges would promote more open play and be much more attractive, unless that it is crash, bang, wallop which is one's preferred mode of entertainment.

I agree with most of what you say. Tonga's style will always be over top of the opposition and I think like a lot of people have already mentioned, the anchor dragging them back was lack of match fitness from most of the squad not playing many games in the last month. If they had had a warm up game or 2 you would have seen more tackle busts and they would have been more effective in the way they play. 

Skill still has a massive part in the game even though its not Tonga's strong point. Australia showed last week when they were physically dominated they still had the skill to be in it till the last minute. The score flattered the Australians vs NZ, but their skill kept them scoring tries out of nothing. That's why they are so hard to beat. 

 

[B rad]

https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/10/21/mate-maa-tonga-set-sights-on-winning-2021-world-cup/

"I think we have got a good crew here and I think there are a lot of good young Tongan players coming up too," he said. "There's also David Fifita at Brisbane and some other young guys coming up. If we can get them on board for the next World Cup hopefully we will have a strong team."

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, Dunbar said:

The optimist in me wants to say that I wish England were playing them this year...but I have thought and said that before and its come back to kick me in the ######.

From the '78 tour here by the Aussies they have always had some "iconic" players in their teams, we over here in Blighty keep saying "just wait till they lose these guys through old age" who's going to replace them, they have nobody or such and such is not good enough, nowhere near the class of .............

But we all know the answer to those hopeful thoughts we had and keep having, the bloody sods's keep churning them out, I have no doubt in a few years time when some of the 'new era' are approching their sell by date, we will again be saying, "who's going to replace them"

[ghost crayfish]

I'm expecting Kalyn Ponga to be Australia's match winner for the next decade. It's likely he'll move to 6, and he'll be as good as Lockyer or anyone...

[Lowdesert]

8 hours ago, DoubleD said:

If teams are in their off season then they are reliant on self training and discipline. I don’t think the majority of them looked any different than during the season, they mainly just lacked match fitness. I’m not sure what you were expecting 

Yes, I share that view and a warm up game would have certainly helped.

Mistakes, 1st half, cost Tonga and where very helpful assisting Aus downfield.  That said, Aus took their chances and were patient.  No pushed passes and always a willing runner to set the next play up.  

[Dunbar]

9 hours ago, DoubleD said:

If teams are in their off season then they are reliant on self training and discipline. I don’t think the majority of them looked any different than during the season, they mainly just lacked match fitness. I’m not sure what you were expecting 

This seems a little circular so I will just restate my point and leave it.

I think that different levels of fitness played a huge part in the outcome of that game.  All the Australians looked lean and fit including the forwards from teams that didn't play in the NRL finals (Klemmer, McLean etc.).  On the other hand some of the Tongans looked badly out of shape.  I would go so far as to say that Tuimoala Lolohea just looked plain fat. 

Fitness is a big part of the game and I would have expected them to be in better shape.  If this is unrealistic and, as you say, Tonga were in the best shape they could have been given the circumstances then fair enough.

 

[Oxford]

It could have been match fitness or mad Monday blues but I thought mistakes apart they weren't half bad. The first mistake calmed Aussie nerves which always helps.

The halves situation can't have helped either.

Take Cherry-Evans out and there might have been a similar story for the Roos.

[Allora]

18 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

This seems a little circular so I will just restate my point and leave it.

I think that different levels of fitness played a huge part in the outcome of that game.  All the Australians looked lean and fit including the forwards from teams that didn't play in the NRL finals (Klemmer, McLean etc.).  On the other hand some of the Tongans looked badly out of shape.  I would go so far as to say that Tuimoala Lolohea just looked plain fat. 

Fitness is a big part of the game and I would have expected them to be in better shape.  If this is unrealistic and, as you say, Tonga were in the best shape they could have been given the circumstances then fair enough.

 

 

Was it Tonga or Samoa in last years World Cup that saw players put on so much extra weight that the commentators were talking about it.

Along the lines of banning them from the Buffet.

[Scubby]

4 minutes ago, Allora said:

 

Was it Tonga or Samoa in last years World Cup that saw players put on so much extra weight that the commentators were talking about it.

Along the lines of banning them from the Buffet.

It was Samoa. TBH this is where they really struggle with the behind the scenes support. I was reading that most of the Tongan backroom staff are volunteers and they have to beg and borrow for facilities and stuff. This means that the players have less structure to their build up and conditioning. It also places more emphasis on them to be in shape. When you just finish a tough season and you then have almost 2 months before a single fixture it is very difficult to keep that discipline. 

[Oxford]

2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I was reading that most of the Tongan backroom staff are volunteers and they have to beg and borrow for facilities and stuff.

But if they had all the right stuff they might win and then where would we be?

The contradictory messages about international games and calendars are at the heart of our problems and issues as a sport.

If we ever take it seriously ..........

[Rawschach]

Watched game this morning, very entertaining despite the Aussies scoring enough points early doors to mean the result was never in doubt.

Tedesco is quality - defensively and in attack.  He has massive shoes to fill but is such a good player.  If Ponga wants to play at full back can we find him an English grandma?  (Not serious)

Tonga showed that forwards don't win you games, halves do.  Lolohea has always looked more of a runner when I have seen him play (showed some nice sidesteps in this match) and his kicking game was all over the place.  He has certainly 'filled out' as well.  I hope he doesn't find Fazenda in Leeds.

Tonga (like England and pretty much every team) need a Thurston or a Cronk to get them round the park.  The forwards did a great job and they had a lot of good field position.  Defensively they were poor whenever Australia got near the line - and the Aussies backs did some good stuff.

It was great having a match to watch.  It could have been closer which would have been even better.  Looking forward to England and NZ even more now.