Swinton player Will Hope suffers horrific leg break, then has to wait five hours to get it treated (Merged Threads)

[tim2]

I have read, and some doctors have confirmed this, that if you dial the emergency services and tell them you are with a doctor (for example you go to the surgery and the doctor tells you to get to the hospital ASAP) then the system automatically puts you below other similar cases. The 999 people deny this, but I can see why you might do this when triaging.

Apart from the pain, there are other potential issues with a badly broken leg/ankle (stopping circulation) but if the doc's effectively assessed it as stable then there's not much to do other than wait.

As a ref at amatuer games the response of ambulances has been wildly variable. One time a lad was tackled and coudn't feel his legs. We were barely off the phone when we could hear the siren and it was there in 6 minutes. At a junior RU game I was at once in January a player had broken his arm in two places and a dislocated elbow. He was lying on the floor for over an hour. Not helped by some Barbour jacketed idiot parking his Range Rover across the entrance to that field, meaning the paramedics having to carry their stretcher up the hilly track and back with the lad on.

[Leeds Wire]

2 hours ago, Ackroman said:

Try walking in his shoes particularly when one of them is facing the other way.

I'm not sure whether I was supposed to laugh out loud at that, but I did. Apologies if not.

[RP London]

24 minutes ago, tim2 said:

I have read, and some doctors have confirmed this, that if you dial the emergency services and tell them you are with a doctor (for example you go to the surgery and the doctor tells you to get to the hospital ASAP) then the system automatically puts you below other similar cases. The 999 people deny this, but I can see why you might do this when triaging.

Apart from the pain, there are other potential issues with a badly broken leg/ankle (stopping circulation) but if the doc's effectively assessed it as stable then there's not much to do other than wait.

As a ref at amatuer games the response of ambulances has been wildly variable. One time a lad was tackled and coudn't feel his legs. We were barely off the phone when we could hear the siren and it was there in 6 minutes. At a junior RU game I was at once in January a player had broken his arm in two places and a dislocated elbow. He was lying on the floor for over an hour. Not helped by some Barbour jacketed idiot parking his Range Rover across the entrance to that field, meaning the paramedics having to carry their stretcher up the hilly track and back with the lad on.

I'd agree with that.. had a couple of occasions of waiting ages when playing and also had one with a helicopter coming due to the seriousness of the injury and difficulty of getting to them... 

The first part of what you say does ring true and actually there would seem to be sense in that.. it is not right.. but if you have to prioritise a limited service it does seem sensible.

[Sainthamish]

I heard that the ambulance didn't turn up and they gave up waiting after 4 hours and carried him onto the coach.  If they'd have stuck with waiting for the ambulance it could have been way longer.

I've read that ambulances are often stuck queued up outside A&E because there are no beds for the patients they're carrying. If this was the case then I can totally understand why they didn't go to the hospital in Sheffield.

I was also told that there was only basic pain relief at the ground that did little to address his pain. Didn't even have gas and air.

It's right that Will should be angry and should be highlighting this.  Imagine the anger from saints fans if say, James Roby had the same injury at an away match at Leeds and was still on a stretcher waiting to go to the hospital, with basic pain relief, hours after everyone has left the game and gone home. Or the same situation for any superleague player. Why should player welfare be a lower priority in the Championship?

[tim2]

13 minutes ago, Sainthamish said:

I heard that the ambulance didn't turn up and they gave up waiting after 4 hours and carried him onto the coach.  If they'd have stuck with waiting for the ambulance it could have been way longer.

I've read that ambulances are often stuck queued up outside A&E because there are no beds for the patients they're carrying. If this was the case then I can totally understand why they didn't go to the hospital in Sheffield.

I was also told that there was only basic pain relief at the ground that did little to address his pain. Didn't even have gas and air.

It's right that Will should be angry and should be highlighting this.  Imagine the anger from saints fans if say, James Roby had the same injury at an away match at Leeds and was still on a stretcher waiting to go to the hospital, with basic pain relief, hours after everyone has left the game and gone home. Or the same situation for any superleague player. Why should player welfare be a lower priority in the Championship?

A good question and I hope the RFL has a look a it. However there are things outside of the game's and precious little money to go round. I do wonder what would have been different at an SL game.

[fevtom]

11 minutes ago, Sainthamish said:

Why should player welfare be a lower priority in the Championship?

It's not that it's a lower priority in the championship, just that it's a lower priority than someone who is having a cardiac arrest or a child that's been hit by a car.

I'm sure Super League clubs have better facilities for this sort of situation but if you want a fully staffed ambulance at every rugby game in the country then the game will die out below Super League. We already have people dying because ambulance response times aren't quick enough so realistically we're not going to get a fully staffed ambulance waiting at every football/rugby/tiddlewinks match just in case it's needed. Not without paying more tax anyway.

[philipw]

24 minutes ago, Sainthamish said:

I heard that the ambulance didn't turn up and they gave up waiting after 4 hours and carried him onto the coach.  If they'd have stuck with waiting for the ambulance it could have been way longer.

I've read that ambulances are often stuck queued up outside A&E because there are no beds for the patients they're carrying. If this was the case then I can totally understand why they didn't go to the hospital in Sheffield.

I was also told that there was only basic pain relief at the ground that did little to address his pain. Didn't even have gas and air.

It's right that Will should be angry and should be highlighting this.  Imagine the anger from saints fans if say, James Roby had the same injury at an away match at Leeds and was still on a stretcher waiting to go to the hospital, with basic pain relief, hours after everyone has left the game and gone home. Or the same situation for any superleague player. Why should player welfare be a lower priority in the Championship?

I would like to think that someone would have had the common sense to take him to the nearest hospital

[Bleep1673]

1 hour ago, Impartial Observer said:

I see all over twitter that it is the RFL's fault. Not sure why, there was a doctor there. Swinton could always bring their own doctor if they wished and as others have why would you take the player back to Salford, what would have happened if there was a major delay on the M62 or the coach broke down? Surely you get the player to the nearest hospital if they were so concerned with player welfare.  

20-20 hindsight vision is not going to help. They called for an ambulance, the service were busy, after a certain amount of time, the club decided to take the player to SRH where he would be treated closer to his family. Sheffield Hospital would've kept him in hospital, under their "Care" for weeks, away from his family & Friends & Team-mates. Imagine if you are an A&E Nurse, and you see a bus pull up, and you see a load of blokes humping a guy off, wouldn't you get him triaged straight away, especially if you had heard that Yorkshire Ambulance service had been so negligent?

I have always hated Eagles, this has made it even worse.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

If we’re having a go at The RFL for their lack of player welfare, shouldn’t we be having a go at Swinton’s club doctor who allowed a man to be placed on a coach and presumably not strapped into anything  to be driven over an hour to a hospital when the player had what is being described as a major injury? 

[Sainthamish]

1 minute ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

If we’re having a go at The RFL for their lack of player welfare, shouldn’t we be having a go at Swinton’s club doctor who allowed a man to be placed on a coach and presumably not strapped into anything  to be driven over an hour to a hospital when the player had what is being described as a major injury? 

I think it would have been the Sheffield club doctor and I presume he was still strapped to a stretcher.

[Sainthamish]

15 minutes ago, philipw said:

I would like to think that someone would have had the common sense to take him to the nearest hospital

I think that's the point. There wasn't a facility to enable that to happen at Sheffield given that the lad was on a stretcher.  Barring loading him onto the team bus.

[Impartial Observer]

7 minutes ago, Bleep1673 said:

20-20 hindsight vision is not going to help. They called for an ambulance, the service were busy, after a certain amount of time, the club decided to take the player to SRH where he would be treated closer to his family. Sheffield Hospital would've kept him in hospital, under their "Care" for weeks, away from his family & Friends & Team-mates. Imagine if you are an A&E Nurse, and you see a bus pull up, and you see a load of blokes humping a guy off, wouldn't you get him triaged straight away, especially if you had heard that Yorkshire Ambulance service had been so negligent?

I have always hated Eagles, this has made it even worse.

I understand that the player would want to be nearer home but they are saying about player welfare issues so you would take him to the nearest hospital wouldnt you?

[Damien]

7 minutes ago, Bleep1673 said:

20-20 hindsight vision is not going to help. They called for an ambulance, the service were busy, after a certain amount of time, the club decided to take the player to SRH where he would be treated closer to his family. Sheffield Hospital would've kept him in hospital, under their "Care" for weeks, away from his family & Friends & Team-mates. Imagine if you are an A&E Nurse, and you see a bus pull up, and you see a load of blokes humping a guy off, wouldn't you get him triaged straight away, especially if you had heard that Yorkshire Ambulance service had been so negligent?

I have always hated Eagles, this has made it even worse.

There's an awful lot of assumptions there and I certainly wouldn't call the Ambulance Service negligent. They rightly prioritise cases as they see fit and unfortunately that means less serious cases often have to wait. What would be negligent is letting someone die from a heart attack or car accident because they have instead gone to treat someone with a broken leg.

[Chris Taylor]

It's an awful incident and I hope the player makes a speedy recovery and he can play again.

Let's say Sheffield hospital can't cope, what about Doncaster, Dewsbury, Wakefield, or even Leeds hospital. They are all within 30 minutes of the stadium. 

 

[tms]

just a thought if no ambulance why didn't they put him on team coach and take him to nearest hospital straight away

[fevtom]

With regards taking him to Salford. It's not uncommon. They might have been advised treatment would be quicker there or it may have been the players choice. A serious break could see him in for a while so it could be more convenient to be closer to home. Having worked in Leeds General Infirmary I've seen patients come from Hull or further by ambulance very regularly.

 

1 minute ago, POR said:

just a thought if no ambulance why didn't they put him on team coach and take him to nearest hospital straight away

Probably because they didn't know how long it was going to be.

[Rupert Prince]

4 minutes ago, Chris Taylor said:

It's an awful incident and I hope the player makes a speedy recovery and he can play again.

Let's say Sheffield hospital can't cope, what about Doncaster, Dewsbury, Wakefield, or even Leeds hospital. They are all within 30 minutes of the stadium. 

 

We visited a friend in Barnsley many years ago, we went to watch him play football on Sunday. He only came on late as a sub, and promptly broke his leg.  I cannot remember how he got there but treatment was ok. As I recall the A&E rapidly filled up with sports injuries.

One of his mates scored a hat-trick, the 3rd was a blinder.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

15 minutes ago, Sainthamish said:

I think it would have been the Sheffield club doctor and I presume he was still strapped to a stretcher.

PT Championship teams aren't mandated to have their own doctor at away games but they obviously can if they choose to. However, the doctor either condoned his transport by coach (although I honestly cannot see that being the case considering their duty of care to what was their patient, nevermind the potential legal implications if something went amiss on the journey. Also the coach company would almost certainly be breaking transport rules in having a passenger laid in the aisle on a stretcher) or the Swinton club chose to do so on their own.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

30 minutes ago, Sainthamish said:

I think it would have been the Sheffield club doctor and I presume he was still strapped to a stretcher.

Swinton’s would have also been involved and what would the stretcher have been strapped to?

[TrueBull]

Or the player himself made the decision to refuse to go to a local hospital once a couple of hours had passed. 

[Sainthamish]

4 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Swinton’s would have also been involved and what would the stretcher have been strapped to?

It is only mandatory for the home team doctor to be at PT championship games. So doubt that the Swinton doc was there.

[Quinskolar]

Hope he gets well soon, and the authorities learn best practice from this. It does show how stretched the NHS is due to the cuts. 

[RP London]

43 minutes ago, Bleep1673 said:

20-20 hindsight vision is not going to help. They called for an ambulance, the service were busy, after a certain amount of time, the club decided to take the player to SRH where he would be treated closer to his family. Sheffield Hospital would've kept him in hospital, under their "Care" for weeks, away from his family & Friends & Team-mates. Imagine if you are an A&E Nurse, and you see a bus pull up, and you see a load of blokes humping a guy off, wouldn't you get him triaged straight away, especially if you had heard that Yorkshire Ambulance service had been so negligent?

I have always hated Eagles, this has made it even worse.

why do you hate Eagles and why has this made it even worse, its nothing to do with them its Yorkshire Ambulance service's fault if anyones? (or whoever was unfortunate enough to have needed an ambulance more than someone already being looked after by a doctor.. and lets hope they were ok too there will be plenty who werent on sunday and were in need of the ambulance)

[RP London]

41 minutes ago, Sainthamish said:

I think it would have been the Sheffield club doctor and I presume he was still strapped to a stretcher.

did we get the stretcher back? otherwise we wont have a stretcher for the next game 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

3 minutes ago, Sainthamish said:

It is only mandatory for the home team doctor to be at PT championship games. So doubt that the Swinton doc was there.

Still, a doctor has signed that off. That’s negligent and awful player welfare.