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burnleywelsh

Brits in the NRL

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7 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Ah, ok.  The commentators said he put down a scoring chance, so maybe mistaken and I can believe his meterage as it was maybe 5 minutes late updating.  179 is impressive given his first half. 

If he was a normal squad player filling in he wouldn't get a mention. It's only because of his record at leeds and international matches, but which ever way you look at it he is really poor in one of the top teams in the NRL. He is 4th choice winger who hasn't scored halfway through his 2nd season. 

Edited by ELBOWSEYE
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1 minute ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

If he was a normal squad player filling in he wouldn't get a mention. It's only because of his record at leeds and international matches, but which ever way you look at it he is really poor in one of the top teams in the NRL. He is 4th choice winger who hasn't scored halfway through his 2nd season. 

He must have been involved though to get the metreage Dunbar mentioned.  It was very low first half.

The opposite winger might have an injury sonar yam might hang on in there.  I hope so and he can get on the scoresheet.

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11 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Ah, ok.  The commentators said he put down a scoring chance, so maybe mistaken and I can believe his meterage as it was maybe 5 minutes late updating.  179 is impressive given his first half.  And then we look at Taumalolo’s. 

There was one right on the try line but the player passing it knocked on as he was trying to get it to him. 

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Just now, bobbruce said:

There was one right on the try line but the player passing it knocked on as he was trying to get it to him. 

Cheers Bob.  I didn’t watch it but the commentators did mention he’d put it down.  Obviously a case of mistaken identity.

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14 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

If he was a normal squad player filling in he wouldn't get a mention. It's only because of his record at leeds and international matches, but which ever way you look at it he is really poor in one of the top teams in the NRL. He is 4th choice winger who hasn't scored halfway through his 2nd season. 

Of course we are only speaking about him on here because he is British. And if he were an Aussie he would be going under the radar.

But he is not 'really poor'. Today he was playing outside Sitili Tupouniua who is normally a second row and once again he had zero chances to get over the line.

But he continues to contribute to the team with hard yards and he is currently 20th in the entire NRL for average metres per game... a key metric for modern wingers (that's 20th for all players in the NRL, not just wingers).

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8 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

He must have been involved though to get the metreage Dunbar mentioned.  It was very low first half.

The opposite winger might have an injury sonar yam might hang on in there.  I hope so and he can get on the scoresheet.

I have watched most of his games and do want him to succeed but he is poor, I am not saying he's not trying. And most games his meterage is generally coming fom his own line after a kick. There are 30 plus more effective whingers in the NRL. 

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29 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

I have watched most of his games and do want him to succeed but he is poor, I am not saying he's not trying. And most games his meterage is generally coming fom his own line after a kick. There are 30 plus more effective whingers in the NRL. 

Given that most of them are Aussies I’d be surprised if there aren’t 300 more effective whingers in the NRL!

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Just now, OMEGA said:

Given that most of them are Aussies I’d be surprised if there aren’t 300 more effective whingers in the NRL!

Fair point, that's without a drink. 

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36 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

I have watched most of his games and do want him to succeed but he is poor, I am not saying he's not trying. And most games his meterage is generally coming fom his own line after a kick. There are 30 plus more effective whingers in the NRL. 

Agreed. He’s done. 

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Hall had another very forgettable game. Granted he didn’t have many opportunities but he doesn’t look like he will make any either. He’s no longer an attacking weapon and he looked all at sea defensively again. Granted he was outside a forward who was playing centre and Butcher, who was playing edge forward which is unnatural to him, but he just looked so disconnected. 

Gold Coast had a good dig but an underperforming Roosters just did enough 

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A bit of insight into today's Roosters Titans game to put the wingers' performance into perspective.

The Roosters had Joseph Manu and Sitili Tupouniua in the centres.  Tupouniua  is normally a second row and while Manu is a  great player and a real strike weapon, he is not a classic wingers centre as more often than not the Roosters will set up to make him the focus of the play.

Matt Ikuvalu and Ryan Hall were the two wingers for the Roosters and between them they touched the ball 53 times and ran for 423 metres.  And how many times did the two centres pass the ball in the entire game - 6 times between them! And that's not six times to their wingers, that's six times overall.

As far as I can recall, Ikuvalu had one try scoring opportunity (where he was bundled over the sideline) and Hall didn't get one.

Would Trent Robinson be disappointed with their performances?  Well, the back three for the Roosters ran for the most metres in the game for his team and from watching the Roosters a lot of times in their two Premiership winning seasons, how they start their sets with carries from the back three is a key part of their game plan and execution.

I am not here to defend Hall and his time at the Roosters (it may seem so at times) and I will not say he has been a success as that would not be true, on another thread I have rated him 6 out of 10 for his time with them.  But I do want to recognize what he does well for the team as others would prefer to just say he is shot and out of his depth as that isn't true either.

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25 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

A bit of insight into today's Roosters Titans game to put the wingers' performance into perspective.

The Roosters had Joseph Manu and Sitili Tupouniua in the centres.  Tupouniua  is normally a second row and while Manu is a  great player and a real strike weapon, he is not a classic wingers centre as more often than not the Roosters will set up to make him the focus of the play.

Matt Ikuvalu and Ryan Hall were the two wingers for the Roosters and between them they touched the ball 53 times and ran for 423 metres.  And how many times did the two centres pass the ball in the entire game - 6 times between them! And that's not six times to their wingers, that's six times overall.

As far as I can recall, Ikuvalu had one try scoring opportunity (where he was bundled over the sideline) and Hall didn't get one.

Would Trent Robinson be disappointed with their performances?  Well, the back three for the Roosters ran for the most metres in the game for his team and from watching the Roosters a lot of times in their two Premiership winning seasons, how they start their sets with carries from the back three is a key part of their game plan and execution.

I am not here to defend Hall and his time at the Roosters (it may seem so at times) and I will not say he has been a success as that would not be true, on another thread I have rated him 6 out of 10 for his time with them.  But I do want to recognize what he does well for the team as others would prefer to just say he is shot and out of his depth as that isn't true either.

If people say he is 'out of his depth' they are a bit dim. However, expectation plays a part in the general disapointment of his performances.

I believe we had similar (very civil) back and forth on this regarding Sam Tomkins. I would say the same applies to Hall whereby hes expected to be much better than he is as it was only 3 years ago some were saying he was the best winger in the world.

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4 minutes ago, AB90 said:

If people say he is 'out of his depth' they are a bit dim. However, expectation plays a part in the general disapointment of his performances.

I believe we had similar (very civil) back and forth on this regarding Sam Tomkins. I would say the same applies to Hall whereby hes expected to be much better than he is as it was only 3 years ago some were saying he was the best winger in the world.

Yes, I certainly agree.  The likes of Hodgson and Whitehead have exceeded expectations while Tomkins and Hall have not lived up to what they were expected to achieve and this plays a big part in public perceptions.

I think a significant part of this for Hall is the serious injury he had that delayed his debut... his time with the Roosters has been stuttering at best. You do wonder if he had gone over fully fit and firing whether he would have cemented a starting spot and we would be having a different conversation now.

Anyway, as Cosmo Kramer once memorably said, 'it's all water near a bridge now'.

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4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Yes, I certainly agree.  The likes of Hodgson and Whitehead have exceeded expectations while Tomkins and Hall have not lived up to what they were expected to achieve and this plays a big part in public perceptions.

I think a significant part of this for Hall is the serious injury he had that delayed his debut... his time with the Roosters has been stuttering at best. You do wonder if he had gone over fully fit and firing whether he would have cemented a starting spot and we would be having a different conversation now.

Anyway, as Cosmo Kramer once memorably said, 'it's all water near a bridge now'.

A lot of the "not up to it" criticism has been aimed at British players who have been injured. Very chippy, very opportunist. 

Tomkins cut up defences a treat when he was fully fit, but once he got injured, it was months after leaving the NRL before he could even take to the field for Wigan. Same with Kallum Watkins, who really should be hitting his normal form for the Titans right now, if it wasn't for outside circumstances.

Hall has got fit again, after a long period out, but has found himself at a club where he's not getting much ball in the few games he's played. If I was him, I'd be studying the form to see which NRL clubs are prone to spreading the ball wide, then asking to go out on loan there. Even one of the lower clubs might turn out to be a mutually beneficial deal - Maumalo's absence from the Warriors could be a fine opportunity, for instance.

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"Men will be proud to say 'I am a European'. We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land." (Winston Churchill)

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2 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

A lot of the "not up to it" criticism has been aimed at British players who have been injured. Very chippy, very opportunist. 

Tomkins cut up defences a treat when he was fully fit, but once he got injured, it was months after leaving the NRL before he could even take to the field for Wigan. Same with Kallum Watkins, who really should be hitting his normal form for the Titans right now, if it wasn't for outside circumstances.

Hall has got fit again, after a long period out, but has found himself at a club where he's not getting much ball in the few games he's played. If I was him, I'd be studying the form to see which NRL clubs are prone to spreading the ball wide, then asking to go out on loan there. Even one of the lower clubs might turn out to be a mutually beneficial deal - Maumalo's absence from the Warriors could be a fine opportunity, for instance.

At the moment, with both Morris boys and Tupou on the sidelines, the Roosters outside backs are pretty thin on the ground.

In an ideal world this would be a chance for Hall to get some game time and maybe bag a couple of tries but with second rows in the centre I can see a repeat of this conversion again next week win, lose or draw for the Roosters.

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17 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Yes, I certainly agree.  The likes of Hodgson and Whitehead have exceeded expectations while Tomkins and Hall have not lived up to what they were expected to achieve and this plays a big part in public perceptions.

I think a significant part of this for Hall is the serious injury he had that delayed his debut... his time with the Roosters has been stuttering at best. You do wonder if he had gone over fully fit and firing whether he would have cemented a starting spot and we would be having a different conversation now.

Anyway, as Cosmo Kramer once memorably said, 'it's all water near a bridge now'.

And it's the same this way as well.

Trent Merrin was considered alright for Leeds last year however some said he was a disappointment. He was hands down Leeds best foward in 2019 and arguably their best player. But, because he is a former Origin and Kangaroos player, expectations were sky high for him which probably weren't achieved in his performances.

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Just like a puppy at Christmas, if you don't feed your wingers, you may as well chuck 'em in the canal.


"Men will be proud to say 'I am a European'. We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land." (Winston Churchill)

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Just now, AB90 said:

And it's the same this way as well.

Trent Merrin was considered alright for Leeds last year however some said he was a disappointment. He was hands down Leeds best foward in 2019 and arguably their best player. But, because he is a former Origin and Kangaroos player, expectations were sky high for him which probably weren't achieved in his performances.

After an underwhelming start, Merrin finished his stint at Headingley looking pretty good. Then again, you could say that about Leeds as a whole. When Merrin joined them, they were awful. He couldn't lift them on his own, but he did what he could.


"Men will be proud to say 'I am a European'. We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land." (Winston Churchill)

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11 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

Just like a puppy at Christmas, if you don't feed your wingers, you may as well chuck 'em in the canal.

I don’t fully buy into this. The best wingers will create their own opportunities. Hall has never been in a position on the end of breaks. But it’s defence which is more concerning, although it’s not easy being in and out the team, different wings with different players around you. 

I was more disappointed Watkins came back as he was looking much better this year. His best performances for GC were better than Hall’s best performances for Roosters IMO

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Quick question. If he's so useless, why is he still on the field. Aussi teams are not well known for their charity to poor players. 


Four legs good - two legs bad

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19 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Quick question. If he's so useless, why is he still on the field. Aussi teams are not well known for their charity to poor players. 

Ask Allora. :kolobok_wink:


"Men will be proud to say 'I am a European'. We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land." (Winston Churchill)

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If he's not getting scoring opportunities on the wing it's not his fault, if he's not doing his work in the middle or coming looking for the ball it's his fault, by his stats he's not being lazy, with Robinsons game plan I reckon he'll be happy with halls performances and stats, the roosters play with speed through the middle and prefer to hit a second row outwide one on one and get another quick play the ball than pass to the wing and get caught close to the touch line. 

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10 hours ago, JohnM said:

Quick question. If he's so useless, why is he still on the field. Aussi teams are not well known for their charity to poor players. 

He is 4th choice winger so with injuries to the roosters its stretching it a bit to ask how is he on the pitch. Look at any SL side and name the 4th choice winger. He was at his peak one of the best wingers but some of the straw clutching on here is embarrassing, and to keep harping on about metres, well stick him in the pack that maybe more useful. 

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