Ralph Rimmer and Nigel Woods legacy

[The Daddy]

Ralph Rimmer and Nigel Wood have undone every good initiative made in domestic uk rugby league by Richard Lewis. 

The sport is in a much worse place than it was when Lewis had left rl and it's just sad that he had to leave because he brought so much. I think the sport was gradually heading in a direction which was positive and optimistic. Now we are left with an RFL which is nothing more than administrative body and in my view the tv (deal) value and general interest around the sport has decreased. MMA, Boxing, Union and Women's soccer have overtaken rl. 

Let's take a look at some of their decisions and highlights: 

- Bring back promotion/relegation. (Yes, franchising was actually a good thing)

- Facilitate and bringing in the concept of jeopardy via a middle eights format as recommended by a consultancy firm

- Bring back the GB Lions in a tour which doesn't include matches against Australia. It also looks like England aren't going to play next year a year before the World Cup 

- Scotland playing World Cup and 4 Nations games in Cumbria (This would not have happened under Lewis)

- Decrease in the number of development officers and RFL staff

- Decrease in playing numbers and national sports funding in each of the home nations

Congratulations to both of them for their remarkable achievements. 

[Man of Kent]

Also in Nigel Wood’s ledger:

2013 World Cup 

£200m Sky TV deal

£25m UK government funding for 2021 World Cup

North American expansion (if you believe that’s a good thing)

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

Richard Lewis was a big loss to the sport.

Nigel Wood and Ralph Rimmer have been a costly calamity and done a lot of damage. 

[The British Lion]

I couldn't agree more with @TheDaddy 

Richard Lewis sorted the game out at a time of huge crisis and no confidence, aligned all the para-organisations, and the biggest struggle, BARLA at the time, to unify the game. Introduced England as the national team. (GB has a place in international sport for me, but not in place of England).

Wood actually did a lot of good - as highlighted by Man of Kent, and was a good expansionist, and Internationalist. 

I have no idea what happened behind closed doors to force Wood out. The SL chairmen, plus Rimmer perhaps wanting the top job? Now Elstone running SL, and the Championship clubs threatening to break away too. Expansion having little to less encouragement, no 'tangable' international competition, more make shift (in the northern hemisphere).

I was chatting to my brother watching the semi finals today...I enjoyed the wire v hull game, as my team won...but we are both genuinly bored with the same old same old. Bored of watching Wire V (choose neighbouring team x 4/5 times a year).

We both want to get excited about an international calendar and watch England V whoever! 

RL DESPERATELY needs different interests outside the Super League, Challenge Cup.

I honestly look at Rugby Union with envious eyes. You can shoot me down for my next comments, however you wish. Ive been a long time RL supporter, but im now so disengaged with the game as a regular due to the very poor vision, and management from the RFL, that I just don't see how it will ever change. My money is precious, and I do now pick and choose when and where I go, as opposed to being a regular season ticket holder. The world is bigger than the M62 corridor my friends. For me, Rimmer should be ousted as soon as possible, and replaced with a visionary leader (as per Lewis, back then) to re-unify our fractured sport. Push through and cast vision for international presence, and re-ignite connection with existing and potential supporters.

[The Daddy]

On 25/07/2019 at 21:56, Man of Kent said:

Also in Nigel Wood’s ledger:

2013 World Cup 

£200m Sky TV deal

£25m UK government funding for 2021 World Cup

North American expansion (if you believe that’s a good thing)

Asides from the 2021 World Cup (and I'm being generous) I don't think you can prove that any of the above you listed wouldn't have happened without Nigel.

[DOGFATHER]

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but most of the blame directed at Wood and Rimmer seems somewhat unfair. (Tin hat at the ready). I'm not saying they are blameless BTW, because they have made some bizarre decisions, but maybe the finger should be pointed at the people who put them in to these positions? 

All of the major decisions have been decided by the chairmen of the SL clubs since SL's inception. They control the majority of the money coming it to the game. The Sky deal is, and always has been with SL. The RFL get a percentage of that deal. Therefore, what power has the RFL really had since Sky came in? 

You could argue that Wood was the Chairman of SL, so he would have had some say in the matter. However, there are a few question marks regarding that argument:-

1. Who appointed him in to that role? The SL Chairmen.

2. What qualified him to get the job in the first place?  - AFAIK His only notable entry in to the world of RL, was bankrupting Halifax, I fail to see how that would make him the best qualified person for the job. It could be argued he would be one of the worst choices. 

Therefore, was it simply a case that the SL Chairmen voted him in, because he would do as he was told? Why else put him there?

3. Even as the top dog in SL, all of the major decisions are decided and voted on by the clubs themselves, so what power would he have really had? His capacity would have equated to little more than putting the options forward and casting a deciding vote, if there wasn't a majority one way or the other. 

I find it hard to believe it is all just a coincidence, that he was relieved of his duties at the RFL and SL once he voiced his objections to SL clubs taking an even bigger share of the next TV deal. 

Is that the real reason that he is no longer in the posts? Up to that point, had it been a case of him towing the party line and doing as he was told by the Chairmen of SL, whilst collecting his £200k+ a year salary? Once he was set for life financially, did he decide he didn't have to tow the party line any more? 

Would anyone qualified/suitable really want the job?

Why would any really strong candidates with business acumen, a good track record and reputation want to take on such a role, if they could not make decisions? 

Why would anyone worth their salt do it? When they could earn the same sort of money, and probably more besides, running a business away from public scrutiny and be judged by their own actions and decisions, rather than those made by a committee of parochial, small minded and self interested northern sole traders and shopkeepers.

Could this be the real reason the Hearn's are not involved in the game?

Maybe the blame lies more with the likes of Lenaghan, Moran and McManus et al. than with the RFL, Rimmer and Wood.

[Big Picture]

Yet another sign that real progress for RL in the northern hemisphere can only come via a whole new organization outside/above the existing structure in the UK which would follow the tried and true practices of major North American pro sports organizations.

[philipw]

On 25/07/2019 at 22:44, The Daddy said:

It also looks like England aren't going to play next year a year before the World Cup 

I am assuming this statement is based on the comments in the other thread, however, it has already been confirmed that next year, England will play Australia in a three match series. 

[Man of Kent]

7 hours ago, The Daddy said:

Asides from the 2021 World Cup (and I'm being generous) I don't think you can prove that any of the above you listed wouldn't have happened without Nigel.

Just providing a little balance to your scapegoating, chief.

[Oxford]

Although there have been mistakes. as there will be with new things being tried, a lot of the criticism is based on few crteria and less measurement of either the change itself or the intention behind it. The results of all the raising the ghost of Christmas past is always getting rid of something far too early and the appearance of incompetence and ineffectual because constant change where ever it stems from paints only one picture. The dissatisfaction of fans, pundits and journalists alike contributes to these changes and makes the RFL reactive as an enterprise rather than proactive. The calls to bring back old ideas that worked badly in the first place is as much a part of this as anything else.

[Ackroman]

On 25/07/2019 at 22:44, The Daddy said:

Ralph Rimmer and Nigel Wood have undone every good initiative made in domestic uk rugby league by Richard Lewis. 

The sport is in a much worse place than it was when Lewis had left rl and it's just sad that he had to leave because he brought so much. I think the sport was gradually heading in a direction which was positive and optimistic. Now we are left with an RFL which is nothing more than administrative body and in my view the tv (deal) value and general interest around the sport has decreased. MMA, Boxing, Union and Women's soccer have overtaken rl. 

Let's take a look at some of their decisions and highlights: 

- Bring back promotion/relegation. (Yes, franchising was actually a good thing)

- Facilitate and bringing in the concept of jeopardy via a middle eights format as recommended by a consultancy firm

- Bring back the GB Lions in a tour which doesn't include matches against Australia. It also looks like England aren't going to play next year a year before the World Cup 

- Scotland playing World Cup and 4 Nations games in Cumbria (This would not have happened under Lewis)

- Decrease in the number of development officers and RFL staff

- Decrease in playing numbers and national sports funding in each of the home nations

Congratulations to both of them for their remarkable achievements. 

This is a rehash of the last thread you started, so please forgive my “off topic” reply. Please explain why you believe licensing would be such a great idea this year but it never occurred to you to make the same statement last year?

However regardless, I’m not one for chucking blame around because it doesn’t matter who’s in charge when it’s the SL clubs deciding on how the pie gets cut up.

secondly if SL did go down the closed shop route, the Broncos wouldn’t have a cat in hells chance. It’s a championship club at best. 

 

[Oxford]

10 minutes ago, Ackroman said:

This is a rehash of the last thread you started, so please forgive my “off topic” reply. Please explain why you believe licensing would be such a great idea this year but it never occurred to you to make the same statement last year?

However regardless, I’m not one for chucking blame around because it doesn’t matter who’s in charge when it’s the SL clubs deciding on how the pie gets cut up.

secondly if SL did go down the closed shop route, the Broncos wouldn’t have a cat in hells chance. It’s a championship club at best. 

 

All of these are rehashing the theme from A N Gaulton and the Manchester Guardian circa 1894. On the face of it though you look like you're gearing up for doing exactly the same with Super League.

I think the Bronco's results and the fact that they're hanging on in there means they're probably just an SL club in need of a few players. Huge squads at the top end probabably the most telling point for ensuring the competition remains much the same as always.

 

[saintspete83]

On 25/07/2019 at 21:56, Man of Kent said:

Also in Nigel Wood’s ledger:

2013 World Cup 

£200m Sky TV deal

£25m UK government funding for 2021 World Cup

North American expansion (if you believe that’s a good thing)

Wood can take credit for appointing Sally Bolton for the WC 13. It was her team that brought near capacity crowds to cook islands v USA midweek games in Bristol. 

As with North American expansion putting a self funding team into league 1 was not a stroke of genius, not was a no lose situation for Wood as it cost the RFL absolutely nothing. 

[Oxford]

12 minutes ago, saintspete83 said:

On 25/07/2019 at 21:56, Man of Kent said:

Also in Nigel Wood’s ledger:

2013 World Cup 

£200m Sky TV deal

£25m UK government funding for 2021 World Cup

North American expansion (if you believe that’s a good thing)

Wood can take credit for appointing Sally Bolton for the WC 13. It was her team that brought near capacity crowds to cook islands v USA midweek games in Bristol. 

As with North American expansion putting a self funding team into league 1 was not a stroke of genius, not was a no lose situation for Wood as it cost the RFL absolutely nothing. 

There's alway another side to everything as well!

[M j M]

On 25/07/2019 at 21:44, The Daddy said:

Ralph Rimmer and Nigel Wood have undone every good initiative made in domestic uk rugby league by Richard Lewis. 

The sport is in a much worse place than it was when Lewis had left rl and it's just sad that he had to leave because he brought so much. I think the sport was gradually heading in a direction which was positive and optimistic. Now we are left with an RFL which is nothing more than administrative body and in my view the tv (deal) value and general interest around the sport has decreased. MMA, Boxing, Union and Women's soccer have overtaken rl. 

Let's take a look at some of their decisions and highlights: 

- Bring back promotion/relegation. (Yes, franchising was actually a good thing)

- Facilitate and bringing in the concept of jeopardy via a middle eights format as recommended by a consultancy firm 

- Bring back the GB Lions in a tour which doesn't include matches against Australia. It also looks like England aren't going to play next year a year before the World Cup  

- Scotland playing World Cup and 4 Nations games in Cumbria (This would not have happened under Lewis)

- Decrease in the number of development officers and RFL staff

- Decrease in playing numbers and national sports funding in each of the home nations

Congratulations to both of them for their remarkable achievements. 

The agendas of some people know no bounds - the number of factual inaccuracies in this little lot are too many to counter.

But for starters - where do you think Scotland would have been playing in RLWC '13 if not Cumbria had Lewis remained? Give that the venues (originally Whitehaven) were announced before Lewis left?

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

Lewis did what many men at the top do: make changes that give short term gains but bail out before the reality of those changes cause the brown stuff to hit the spinning thing.

[Dave T]

I think we have too many people within RL who think if something isnt exactly what they want then it is a farce worthy of a rant petition.

On here we would probably get 100 different ways of running it but there is an arrogance that only their way is the 100% correct way and any deviation from that is an abject failure.

[Man of Kent]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think we have too many people within RL who think if something isnt exactly what they want then it is a farce worthy of a rant petition.

On here we would probably get 100 different ways of running it but there is an arrogance that only their way is the 100% correct way and any deviation from that is an abject failure.

Perfection is the enemy of progress 

[Mr Plow]

Did this article inspire this thread:

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/can-i-have-a-rewind-rugby-leagues-lost-decade/

[Mr Plow]

3 hours ago, saintspete83 said:

Wood can take credit for appointing Sally Bolton for the WC 13. It was her team that brought near capacity crowds to cook islands v USA midweek games in Bristol. 

As with North American expansion putting a self funding team into league 1 was not a stroke of genius, not was a no lose situation for Wood as it cost the RFL absolutely nothing. 

What was the legacy of 2013 wc?

[Dave T]

Just now, Mr Plow said:

What was the legacy of 2013 wc?

Frustratingly it was an area that the RFL were really weak on. Missed opportunities on the back of that definitely.

The one thing you can call out though is that it raised the bar for RLWC's - it laid the groundwork for 2021 and the government investment  we have obtained. So I do think there is some legacy, and it looks like in 2021 they have taken that part of it far more seriously, they have obviously learnt from that.

[Scubby]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Frustratingly it was an area that the RFL were really weak on. Missed opportunities on the back of that definitely.

The one thing you can call out though is that it raised the bar for RLWC's - it laid the groundwork for 2021 and the government investment  we have obtained. So I do think there is some legacy, and it looks like in 2021 they have taken that part of it far more seriously, they have obviously learnt from that.

People also conveniently forget that the so called "legacy" for the RLWC 2013 was a 4 Nations in 2014 (Australia), and another tour overseas in 2015, and no England home games until 2016!! WTF?

It was only the Aussies whinging and cancelling in 2015 that produced a hastily arranged home series with NZ. So for those people shouting about how great 2013 was, they seem to forget that the RFL wanted to put the shutters down on home internationals for 3 YEARS after the tournament!

[Manx RL]

[THE RED ROOSTER]

 

10 hours ago, Mr Plow said:

What was the legacy of 2013 wc?

An addiction to cheap and discounted tickets for internationals and major events which plagues the game today with fans (Including myself TBH  ) waiting for the discounted tickets to come onto the market.

[Clogiron]

The balance sheet the RFL issued last week is Dumb & Dumbers biggest legacy