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paul hicks

WHATS GOING ON AT ODSAL

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

This move will be interesting to watch, hopefully it will work but these things are always a risk.

Naturally Mick has now come round to toe the party line quoting that it makes sense as the stadium costs have reduced from c£30k per game to c£2k per game, but the difference in income has to be factored in. 

We saw at Saints that even when they made the temporary move to Widnes when their new ground was actually being built crowds dropped substantially. 

But if this does go ahead as stated then hopefully it can happen as Chalmers is claiming and a new ground can be built.

But none of this is good news. It is sad to potentially see the end of Odsal. The history the stadium has is unbelievable, and has staged some of the biggest events during the SL era, the game is poorer for not having those events. And if a nice little ground is built in the next 5 years, sadly it is an acknowledgement that the aims for the Bulls are far more modest than recent history, and the death of that super club is officially dead. I know that has probably been the case for the last few years in reality, but it is still sad.

Those figures keep being bandied about but I don't think that they are directly comparable. The £2k quoted, if it is correct, is simply a rental charge which should be compared with the £72 pa that they have been paying at Odsal. There is a bland assumption being made that the Bulls won't have to make any contributions to ground and pitch maintenance but would this actually be the case? AC has already commented about significan changes needing to be made to the bar and catering facilities - Dewsbury won't be paying for any of this. Add in considerable additional costs on match days and the cost to Bradford will start to significantly exceed £2k. None of us has any idea what the real costs will be.

If I were a betting man I would hazard ten bob on the Bulls playing in Bradford next season.

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Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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1 hour ago, The Future is League said:

Are you on planet earth?

If the Bulls had the money why did the RFL have to take over the lease?

Not having any income from food and alcohol is a huge financial black hole for any club.

If you think that the Bulls are only paying £2,000 a game for Dewsbury ground let me know what you are smoking as i would like some

1. The head lease with the council was less than the commercial sub let lease from the RFL.  You are confused with your analysis.  The sale of the lease was not about the ability to pay it (peppercorn) it was about cash flow elsewhere and it was sold as an asset.  Our rent went UP.

2. You have no knowledge whatsoever as to the commercial game day arrangements.

3.The game day rental amount is now in the public domain. See 2.

You know nowt.


Forever in our shadow, forever on your mind.

 

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Odsal is not suitable for professional sport.

Odsal is not suitable for spectators,players,sponsors or the media.

I dont know what will happen but at least someone has made a decision. I hope someone makes a similar decision re the groundsat Castleford and Wakefield. I have hope for Wakefield,little for Castleford.

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6 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Those figures keep being bandied about but I don't think that they are directly comparable. The £2k quoted, if it is correct, is simply a rental charge which should be compared with the £72 pa that they have been paying at Odsal. There is a bland assumption being made that the Bulls won't have to make any contributions to ground and pitch maintenance but would this actually be the case? AC has already commented about significan changes needing to be made to the bar and catering facilities - Dewsbury won't be paying for any of this. Add in considerable additional costs on match days and the cost to Bradford will start to significantly exceed £2k. None of us has any idea what the real costs will be.

If I were a betting man I would hazard ten bob on the Bulls playing in Bradford next season.

It was Mick G who quoted those numbers. On that basis alone I have no doubt that they are absolute tosh.

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6 minutes ago, Konkrete said:

 

2. You have no knowledge whatsoever as to the commercial game day arrangements.

Do you? 

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Just now, fairfolly said:

D.K.W.

             Follow Measts posts, The Future is League, The Cougar. All quite obviously detest the Bradford club.

Have they said they want bulls to go under? Or want to see no rl in Bradford? 

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I would assume that Bradford will have to pay for any extra maintenance etc. costs and any costs needed to enlarge the Bar and Catering facilities, and so they should do. As I posted earlier Mark Sawyer and Andrew Chalmers are not fools, any extra costs to the Dewsbury club will be met by Bradford Bulls. As for the rent,some posters on here seem to know what it is, but I certainly have not seen any official confirmation.

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10 minutes ago, cookey said:

Odsal is not suitable for professional sport.

Odsal is not suitable for spectators,players,sponsors or the media.

I dont know what will happen but at least someone has made a decision. I hope someone makes a similar decision re the groundsat Castleford and Wakefield. I have hope for Wakefield,little for Castleford.

Which ground would you suggest they share ?

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It’s worrying to see them leave the city but their options to return are limited and aren’t great

I know Bradford Park Avenue are ambitious but I can only see major developments to Horsfall if they get to the FL which looks a million miles away since they are bottom of National League North.

Valley Parade looks like the best option (it’s in better shape than Odsal) but it wouldn’t make financial sense to leave Odsal because of running/ maintenance costs to move to VP and pay high rent.

The third option is to find a magic money tree and build a new stadium.

IMO Bradford isn’t big enough to have 2 major sports stadiums and unfortunately both the Bulls and City are not rich or successful clubs.

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D.K.W. Have you read the absolute garbage they post when they quite clearly no absolutely nothing what has gone on or is going on at Bradford. I am a Bradford supporter and I can state quite categorically what they are posting about the club is totally incorrect. I personally know nothing about what is going on with the Club,the Council and the R.L.F. so how anybody with no connections with the club knows is obviously things they make up in their own heads and post them as facts.I read your posts about the situation regarding the Councils decision to postpone the W.C. and the abandonment of your new ground but I do not comment because I do not live there nor do I have any knowledge of how your Council works.I do however have every sympathy with your position if your Council is half as bad as Bradfords.

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Mr.Plow,

               Richard Dunn sports centre is due to be demolished,there is the perfect site in the perfect position,now all it needs is for the Bradford Council to make that land available to the Bulls and maybe then a Private Investor may just come along.One millionaire Investor has already promised he is willing to bring Bradford back into Bradford to a new stadium but the sticking point will be the council.However the site of The Richard Dunn centre and Odsal itself are more likely to stay vacant for a vast number of years if the Councils record is anything to go by.

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25 minutes ago, cookey said:

Odsal is not suitable for professional sport.

Odsal is not suitable for spectators,players,sponsors or the media.

I dont know what will happen but at least someone has made a decision. I hope someone makes a similar decision re the groundsat Castleford and Wakefield. I have hope for Wakefield,little for Castleford.

Osal would make a good landfill site.(AGAIN)

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30 minutes ago, cookey said:

Odsal is not suitable for professional sport.

Odsal is not suitable for spectators,players,sponsors or the media.

 

How can a  venue have such a rapid turnaround. Not so long ago when we had franchising and ground criteria was a major issue odsal was deemed suitable. How long ago was it when rfl stepped in and got the lease. It was suitable then and more than that it was also iconic. 

Nothing about odsal as changed, if the bulls had not gone belly up multiple times, were still strutting around the top of SL and posting huge crowd figures ,no one would be having this conversation

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That is what it will become, a landfill site, how long will it take to fill it is the question. Then if anybody is allowed to build on it,which at the moment they are not, how long will the settlement period be. I do not how old you are but it certainly will not be in my lifetime.

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12 minutes ago, fairfolly said:

That is what it will become, a landfill site, how long will it take to fill it is the question. Then if anybody is allowed to build on it,which at the moment they are not, how long will the settlement period be. I do not how old you are but it certainly will not be in my lifetime.

Rubbish creates methane etc. And is usually grassed over afterwards isn't it?  Proper consolidated hard-core costs money.  Even then, surely it is costly and difficult to build on on top of the huge depth of fill that would be there. 

I had forgotten about the Dunn Sports Centre.  If that could be utilised with associated space then some sort of complex might come out of it.

As for Odsal, it might be best for an underground car park with something commercially viable built on top of it.

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1 hour ago, Konkrete said:

1. The head lease with the council was less than the commercial sub let lease from the RFL.  You are confused with your analysis.  The sale of the lease was not about the ability to pay it (peppercorn) it was about cash flow elsewhere and it was sold as an asset.  Our rent went UP.

2. You have no knowledge whatsoever as to the commercial game day arrangements.

3.The game day rental amount is now in the public domain. See 2.

You know nowt.

I know more than you and if i know nowt that doesn't look good on you.

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4 hours ago, Konkrete said:

There’s a lot of talk on here about financing. The money is and always has been locked into the site.  If we leave Odsal and the ground is sold then what’s important is what happens to that sale money and who gets what in the divvy up.

I suspect that the value of the site would easily fund a modest new stadium somewhere in the south of the city. But that might not happen. Bradford Council have a very important part to play.  Let’s hope they’re up to the task. 

when the bulls move out then they have no right to any of the money from the stadium as they were only tenants .

as for the money I would favour the RFL putting it into junior development around the country . any council money I would think would go into the pot to pay council services with maybe a portion towards servicing  community sports in the city.

for me long gone are the days were councils should be giving money away to professional clubs in any sport when they are having there government grants cut to the bone .

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Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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1 hour ago, fairfolly said:

Mr.Plow,

               Richard Dunn sports centre is due to be demolished,there is the perfect site in the perfect position,now all it needs is for the Bradford Council to make that land available to the Bulls and maybe then a Private Investor may just come along.One millionaire Investor has already promised he is willing to bring Bradford back into Bradford to a new stadium but the sticking point will be the council.However the site of The Richard Dunn centre and Odsal itself are more likely to stay vacant for a vast number of years if the Councils record is anything to go by.

its already been marketed for retail development and at least two investors are thought to be interested including the Scarborough group that has just opened a very popular retail and leisure development in Colton Leeds  among many of its developments .

 

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5 hours ago, Agbrigg said:

How can a  venue have such a rapid turnaround. Not so long ago when we had franchising and ground criteria was a major issue odsal was deemed suitable. How long ago was it when rfl stepped in and got the lease. It was suitable then and more than that it was also iconic. 

Nothing about odsal as changed, if the bulls had not gone belly up multiple times, were still strutting around the top of SL and posting huge crowd figures ,no one would be having this conversation

well here is the grade b rating they got for licencing in 2011 . you will note the comment about ageing facilities to say nothing of sustainability and further growth. 

just how soon after that did people jump ship

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Edited by paul hicks

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Just now, paul hicks said:

its already been marketed for retail development and at least two investors are thought to be interested including the Scarborough group that has just opened a very popular retail and leisure development in Colton Leeds  among many of its developments .

Then a big underground car park at Odsal and shops above linked to a stadium and restaurants/ conference hall.

Simples. 

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The point you are making is "interested". It may have been marketed for Retail but now Bradford Council are adamant that the Bulls will be back in Bradford a.s.a.p. .Who says they will not change their minds and provide this land.You quite obviously do not live in Bradford,if you did you might be able to tell me and lots of other Bradfordians why businessess are moving away to Leeds and others closing down. Just this morning the only Bar/Club left in the West End of Bradford announced it was closing its doors this evening and leaving meaning this area is now devoid of any business.This by the way is in the Town Centre.I think I along with many older Bradfordians know the reason but quite obviously cannot say in case I am classified as racist.

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