Champions

[AiredaleMike 13]

The League Champions are 16 points clear with two games still to go. Time to wake up people, or do you still believe that mediocrity should prevail ?

[Tommygilf 4,198]

2 hours ago, AiredaleMike said:

The League Champions are 16 points clear with two games still to go. Time to wake up people, or do you still believe that mediocrity should prevail ?

Can't compare the 2 systems like this.

If champion was decided by finishing top teams would approach the season differently to how they do now. 

Its not, so saying their 16 points clear proves nothing in a playoff based Grand Final system.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Tommygilf

[GeordieSaint 5,965]

4 minutes ago, AiredaleMike said:

The League Champions are 16 points clear with two games still to go. Time to wake up people, or do you still believe that mediocrity should prevail ?

At least you are consistent; post similar every year.

I personally prefer the play-off system.

[ELBOWSEYE 745]

Most sports in the world have play off systems only football is still big on first past the post.

[superten 192]

You have to have play offs when you have an in balance of fixtures.

[AiredaleMike 13]

This post is not a question of what you prefer, or what other sports do or not,  but should mediocrity prevail ?

[Tommygilf 4,198]

6 minutes ago, AiredaleMike said:

This post is not a question of what you prefer, or what other sports do or not,  but should mediocrity prevail ?

Its not mediocrity its the system. Salford and Wigan are the form teams in the league and are coming good at the right time to win a playoff. Had it been champion decided by league position we would expect the rest of the league to push harder all season. 

Also problematic that clubs don't have an even fixture list with Magic and loop rounds.

[AiredaleMike 13]

Hi Tommy,

Mediocrity is entwined with the system, it would seem that currently you can not have one without the other.

 

[DEANO 1,167]

It would seem most people would rather watch 29 rounds of glorified friendlies and then a few meaningful games at the end of the season

[GUBRATS 3,651]

1 hour ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Most sports in the world have play off systems only football is still big on first past the post.

Yes , but , do these other sports operate as single league systems ?

[GUBRATS 3,651]

11 minutes ago, DEANO said:

It would seem most people would rather watch 29 rounds of glorified friendlies and then a few meaningful games at the end of the season

But they don't actually , as the attendances attest to 

[Mr Frisky 696]

1 hour ago, AiredaleMike said:

The League Champions are 16 points clear with two games still to go. Time to wake up people, or do you still believe that mediocrity should prevail ?

Yet when this happens in other sports everyone praises how good the top team are and that the rest need to up their game.

Not sure why this is just a RL issue.

[Whippet13 658]

1 hour ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Most sports in the world have play off systems only football is still big on first past the post.

And even football has playoffs for promotion in all its professional leagues.

[Liverpool Rover 463]

If Saints don't beat mediocre teams in the playoffs what will it say about them?

[Tommygilf 4,198]

2 hours ago, AiredaleMike said:

Hi Tommy,

Mediocrity is entwined with the system, it would seem that currently you can not have one without the other.

 

Hi Mike

What would you say is the mediocrity that is problematic? I don't think anyone has won a Grand Final being mediocre. 

 

[SL17 750]

3 hours ago, AiredaleMike said:

This post is not a question of what you prefer, or what other sports do or not,  but should mediocrity prevail ?

Well take Saints, yeah won the League, failed in the CC and the GF not a given. I'm not sure where your wording as in mediocrity actually prevails.

[Tommygilf 4,198]

37 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Well take Saints, yeah won the League, failed in the CC and the GF not a given. I'm not sure where your wording as in mediocrity actually prevails.

They also will have played 55% of their league games against sides in the bottom half of the table - showing the problem of awarding the championship to top of the league in a comp with loop fixtures.

[RL does what Sky says 2,226]

It always used to be that the Challenge Cup (or at least, playing at Wembley) was the "most-wanted" trophy rather than winning the League Championship. However, we then - of course - copied the Australian system of not caring too much for a knockout event and concentrating more on the Championship as it rewarded teams who had been more consistently successful over the entire season.

That I can certainly understand. However, although we now "reward" those who finish top of the league with the League Leaders Trophy", who actually ever remembers who won it ?  Yet most RL supporters could rhyme off the winners of the Super League trophy for years after it was won.

Therefore, we adopted the Australian way because it rewarded consistency rather than just one-off wins, yet we now have a system where a team could win all their league games (or most of them as St.Helens have done this season) and yet have history totally forget about them if they don't win a couple of knockout games at the end of that campaign. Alternatively a team could ease off towards the end of the regular season and still finish 5th (as some have done) and still have a chance of being the Champions.

Yes, I know it's all to do with money and having an end-of-season final but it does appear somewhat funny that we have downgraded the Challenge Cup knockout event yet promote another one that also relies on one-off results and forgets the most consistent team of the season.

[Mr Plow 933]

3 hours ago, AiredaleMike said:

This post is not a question of what you prefer, or what other sports do or not,  but should mediocrity prevail ?

You have to be both consistent and good at knockout rugby to be able to be Champions

[RL does what Sky says 2,226]

1 minute ago, Mr Plow said:

You have to be both consistent and good at knockout rugby to be able to be Champions

But we have the Challenge Cup for those who are good at knockout rugby.

[Tommygilf 4,198]

Just now, RL does what Sky says said:

But we have the Challenge Cup for those who are good at knockout rugby.

And we have the LLS for those who are good at consistency.

[RL does what Sky says 2,226]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

And we have the LLS for those who are good at consistency.

But what glory or other financial reward do they get for winning it ?

Does anyone really bother who wins it ?

Edited September 6, 2019 by RL does what Sky says

[DC77 222]

4 hours ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Most sports in the world have play off systems only football is still big on first past the post.

St Helens are league champions. While I understand why the play offs are there (knockout games attract more interest), finishing top over 30 games and seven months play is a bigger achievement than winning 2 play off games over a few weeks. 

You allude to other sports that have play offs (US sports especially). It works because they have conferences where only a small percentage of teams are in a group (there can’t be a champion until they have all played each other), so the play offs brings them all together. In rugby league (and Union) this isn’t the case. All the teams are together for seven months, so whoever finishes top is the best. The playoff system in the case of the two rugbys is manufactured.

[AiredaleMike 13]

Hi Tommy,

There are of course mediocre teams in every sport, and it is of course a relative term. This season, everyone is mediocre compared to Saints, as 16 points difference attests. So, if Saints don't win it, a mediocre team will. Why then reward a team that only put together a handful of good performances towards the end of the season. This system has to be an reward for mediocrity. The Rhinos for example have won many a Grand Final with a mediocre team/season.

So mediocrity isn't the problem per se, it is rewarding mediocrity that is the problem.

[Tommygilf 4,198]

Just now, RL does what Sky says said:

But what glory or other financial reward do they get for winning it ?

As much as they choose to place on it themselves. For some clubs, IE Huddersfield and Cas its the first bit of silverware they've won in years. Its a sign of playing winning rugby all year round. 

Doesn't mean they're champions because of several reasons however.