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jroyales

The Second Great Schism

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The first schism was a breakaway from the power mad brokers down south who weren't prepared to support the full sport. They looked after their own interests and damned the rest. This is exactly what SL are proposing when they take over the Sky money. They want to keep it all and the Championship and League 1 can go to the wall. SL seem to think that they deserve the money, what they don't realise is that when Sky pulls out they will also be damned because their attendances won't be adequate to run a professional club - with the exception of one or two with money men behind them.

The time is NOW for ALL clubs outside of SL to breakaway, a "Second Great Schism."

It could return our game to winter, the amateur game could also follow suit so attracting more players away from summer pursuits, all television deals and other could be poured back into our game , there must be many more pluses than negatives for a breakaway.

Sadly, all the chairmen outside of SL will just wait and see what happens! They already know, they will go out of existence within a year so following Carlisle, Bramley, Nottingham, Kent Invicta, Fulham, Scarborough, Huyton, Chorley out of existence and sadly are now just a memory.

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2 minutes ago, jroyales said:

The first schism was a breakaway from the power mad brokers down south who weren't prepared to support the full sport. They looked after their own interests and damned the rest. This is exactly what SL are proposing when they take over the Sky money. They want to keep it all and the Championship and League 1 can go to the wall. SL seem to think that they deserve the money, what they don't realise is that when Sky pulls out they will also be damned because their attendances won't be adequate to run a professional club - with the exception of one or two with money men behind them.

The time is NOW for ALL clubs outside of SL to breakaway, a "Second Great Schism."

It could return our game to winter, the amateur game could also follow suit so attracting more players away from summer pursuits, all television deals and other could be poured back into our game , there must be many more pluses than negatives for a breakaway.

Sadly, all the chairmen outside of SL will just wait and see what happens! They already know, they will go out of existence within a year so following Carlisle, Bramley, Nottingham, Kent Invicta, Fulham, Scarborough, Huyton, Chorley out of existence and sadly are now just a memory.

Oh give over.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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36 minutes ago, jroyales said:

It could return our game to winter

Remember pre-1996 when attendances at all the clubs outside of Wigan were booming, clubs had cash to burn with blue-chip sponsorships and the rugby played was champagne stuff every week?

No, me neither.

The game was dying pre-SL and whilst we haven't exactly had a re-birth of Lazarus proportions, the summer switch suited the next generation of fans.

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16 minutes ago, Cheshire Setter said:

 

Remember pre-1996 when attendances at all the clubs outside of Wigan were booming, clubs had cash to burn with blue-chip sponsorships and the rugby played was champagne stuff every week?

No, me neither.

The game was dying pre-SL and whilst we haven't exactly had a re-birth of Lazarus proportions, the summer switch suited the next generation of fans.

The game was part time before though so outgoing costs were much less. We could have had a summer switch and stayed part time. Most clubs (when you include non-SL clubs) had higher crowds pre-SL

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33 minutes ago, Lobbygobbler said:

The game was part time before though so outgoing costs were much less. We could have had a summer switch and stayed part time. Most clubs (when you include non-SL clubs) had higher crowds pre-SL

No we couldn't, union was going legal then and the Aussies were chucking money at players as the SL war broke out. We would have been asset stripped. I suggest you check your history before spouting drivel. 

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Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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40 minutes ago, Cheshire Setter said:

 

Remember pre-1996 when attendances at all the clubs outside of Wigan were booming, clubs had cash to burn with blue-chip sponsorships and the rugby played was champagne stuff every week?

No, me neither.

The game was dying pre-SL and whilst we haven't exactly had a re-birth of Lazarus proportions, the summer switch suited the next generation of fans.

Now that is utter, utter tripe...

In 1994/95 , 49 million people (yes 49 million) watched Rugby League on TV whether it be BBC or BSKYB or other. The biggest game attracted 4,5 million viewers . In addition , 1,7 million paid through the gate to watch a game of professional Rugby League.

In 2018 we had successfully managed to reduce that to 9 million ( 1.3 million for the biggest game) and 1.5 million through the gates. This of course in spite of record funding flowing into the game , in the hundreds of millions of pounds over 20 odd years.

As for the cash ask millionaires like Hanley, Offiah ,Davies and others what era they would have preferred to earn their crust in. Many players were paid more than many top professionals of 20 plus years later.

Sponsors?...then British Coal, Carling, Regal (John Player), Norweb, ICI,  Mcewans, John Smiths, Greenalls, Silk Cut...etc etc...now Cash Converters and erm....

It's easy to be brainwashed, and many have been, but thinking for ones self and examining the facts is a wonderful tool.

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44 minutes ago, Lobbygobbler said:

The game was part time before though so outgoing costs were much less. We could have had a summer switch and stayed part time. Most clubs (when you include non-SL clubs) had higher crowds pre-SL

Add to that the sporting public could actually name rugby league players too. 

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5 minutes ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

Now that is utter, utter tripe...

In 1994/95 , 49 million people (yes 49 million) watched Rugby League on TV whether it be BBC or BSKYB or other. The biggest game attracted 4,5 million viewers . In addition , 1,7 million paid through the gate to watch a game of professional Rugby League.

In 2018 we had successfully managed to reduce that to 9 million ( 1.3 million for the biggest game) and 1.5 million through the gates. This of course in spite of record funding flowing into the game , in the hundreds of millions of pounds over 20 odd years.

As for the cash ask millionaires like Hanley, Offiah ,Davies and others what era they would have preferred to earn their crust in. Many players were paid more than many top professionals of 20 plus years later.

Sponsors?...then British Coal, Carling, Regal (John Player), Norweb, ICI,  Mcewans, John Smiths, Greenalls, Silk Cut...etc etc...now Cash Converters and erm....

It's easy to be brainwashed, and many have been, but thinking for ones self and examining the facts is a wonderful tool.

Dont be bringing facts into this the game is booming now. 

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6 minutes ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

Now that is utter, utter tripe...

In 1994/95 , 49 million people (yes 49 million) watched Rugby League on TV whether it be BBC or BSKYB or other. The biggest game attracted 4,5 million viewers . In addition , 1,7 million paid through the gate to watch a game of professional Rugby League.

In 2018 we had successfully managed to reduce that to 9 million ( 1.3 million for the biggest game) and 1.5 million through the gates. This of course in spite of record funding flowing into the game , in the hundreds of millions of pounds over 20 odd years.

As for the cash ask millionaires like Hanley, Offiah ,Davies and others what era they would have preferred to earn their crust in. Many players were paid more than many top professionals of 20 plus years later.

Sponsors?...then British Coal, Carling, Regal (John Player), Norweb, ICI,  Mcewans, John Smiths, Greenalls, Silk Cut...etc etc...now Cash Converters and erm....

It's easy to be brainwashed, and many have been, but thinking for ones self and examining the facts is a wonderful tool.

Do you believe that the whole sporting world would have stood still if we had done. 

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Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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7 minutes ago, Padge said:

No we couldn't, union was going legal then and the Aussies were chucking money at players as the SL war broke out. We would have been asset stripped. I suggest you check your history before spouting drivel. 

100% correct.  It is none of out business of course but the southern hemisphere were scared wotless by Aussie RL and they led the way with professionalism.

(this indeed was the 2nd great schism which destroyed the likes of Orrell, Coventry, Mosley, various Former Pupils and the London Welshes/Irishes etc of this world)

Without SKY, RL here would have collapsed.

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20 minutes ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

Now that is utter, utter tripe...

In 1994/95 , 49 million people (yes 49 million) watched Rugby League on TV whether it be BBC or BSKYB or other. The biggest game attracted 4,5 million viewers . In addition , 1,7 million paid through the gate to watch a game of professional Rugby League.

In 2018 we had successfully managed to reduce that to 9 million ( 1.3 million for the biggest game) and 1.5 million through the gates. This of course in spite of record funding flowing into the game , in the hundreds of millions of pounds over 20 odd years.

As for the cash ask millionaires like Hanley, Offiah ,Davies and others what era they would have preferred to earn their crust in. Many players were paid more than many top professionals of 20 plus years later.

Sponsors?...then British Coal, Carling, Regal (John Player), Norweb, ICI,  Mcewans, John Smiths, Greenalls, Silk Cut...etc etc...now Cash Converters and erm....

It's easy to be brainwashed, and many have been, but thinking for ones self and examining the facts is a wonderful tool.

You are smoking something illegal.

Attendances in 1994-95 were nothing special with Wigan looking good, Leeds average and everyone else mostly down.  30 games a season and total attendance 1.33 million.  To be fair thete were no Thursday games.

In 1995 just about every club were on the cusp of facing enormous costs to revamp their crumbling stadiums.

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3 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

You are smoking something illegal.

Attendances in 1994-95 were nothing special with Wigan looking good, Leeds average and everyone else mostly down.  30 games a season and total attendance 1.33 million.  To be fair thete were no Thursday games.

In 1995 just about every club were on the cusp of facing enormous costs to revamp their crumbling stadiums.

Central Park had its capacity cut to 1/3 of what was its record attendance. 

 


Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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14 minutes ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

Now that is utter, utter tripe...

In 1994/95 , 49 million people (yes 49 million) watched Rugby League on TV whether it be BBC or BSKYB or other. The biggest game attracted 4,5 million viewers . In addition , 1,7 million paid through the gate to watch a game of professional Rugby League.

In 2018 we had successfully managed to reduce that to 9 million ( 1.3 million for the biggest game) and 1.5 million through the gates. This of course in spite of record funding flowing into the game , in the hundreds of millions of pounds over 20 odd years.

As for the cash ask millionaires like Hanley, Offiah ,Davies and others what era they would have preferred to earn their crust in. Many players were paid more than many top professionals of 20 plus years later.

Sponsors?...then British Coal, Carling, Regal (John Player), Norweb, ICI,  Mcewans, John Smiths, Greenalls, Silk Cut...etc etc...now Cash Converters and erm....

It's easy to be brainwashed, and many have been, but thinking for ones self and examining the facts is a wonderful tool.

A nice cherry picking of figures there. In 1994/1995 Wigan played 51 games. In 2018 they played 31. Every team played far more back in 1994. There were 30 League games alone and there were multiple cup competitions and even a tour by Australia. If there is only a 200,000 difference in paying customers then that reflects extremely poorly on the game in 1994/1995.

Any difference in TV figures is plainly obvious and needs little explanation. What does need to be pointed out is that the BBC did pay next to nothing for what it did show back then. BSkyB also paid little.

I don't particularly know if the players you refer to are millionaires or not but presumably you have see  their bank statements so I'll take your word for it. However I would certainly hazard a guess that the likes of Sam Tomkins, Sam Burgess et al are all millionaires in this era. I'd say even young players like George Williams will be soon enough. What is also clear is that the vast majority of players are better off in this era and can earn a full time wage in the game. Not just the elite or ex RU players, which by the way used to cause huge resentment amongst Rugby League born and bred players, many of which were part time and getting a fraction of what they were.

Many of the sponsors you cite are now replaced by the cig sponsors of this age, betting companies. There are no cig companies in sports sponsorship anymore because they banned from doing so. Warrington have been sponsored by Emirates, Wakefield by Asus, Leeds by Leeds Building Society - All major blue chip sponsors and bigger than any you cite.

You are certainly right on that it's easy to be brainwashed. Taking the rose tinted spectacles off and thinking for oneself is indeed a wonderful tool.

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23 minutes ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

Now that is utter, utter tripe...

In 1994/95 , 49 million people (yes 49 million) watched Rugby League on TV whether it be BBC or BSKYB or other. The biggest game attracted 4,5 million viewers . In addition , 1,7 million paid through the gate to watch a game of professional Rugby League.

In 2018 we had successfully managed to reduce that to 9 million ( 1.3 million for the biggest game) and 1.5 million through the gates. This of course in spite of record funding flowing into the game , in the hundreds of millions of pounds over 20 odd years.

As for the cash ask millionaires like Hanley, Offiah ,Davies and others what era they would have preferred to earn their crust in. Many players were paid more than many top professionals of 20 plus years later.

Sponsors?...then British Coal, Carling, Regal (John Player), Norweb, ICI,  Mcewans, John Smiths, Greenalls, Silk Cut...etc etc...now Cash Converters and erm....

It's easy to be brainwashed, and many have been, but thinking for ones self and examining the facts is a wonderful tool.

This was 1995 when there were just 4 TV channels, the internet hadn't been invented and there was a fraction of the entertainment alternatives available compared to today. 

British Coal - only sponsored us briefly to placate the "northern locals" until it was shut down as an organisation by the govt.

Regal & Silk Cut - horrible sponsors whose products kill people, an embarrassment to the game and thankfully banned.

Mcewan's, John Smith's, Greenhalls - From what I can make out there are as many beer sponsors in the game as ever, Wigan have just signed up with Kingfisher for example.

Modern sponsorship does not work the way it used to, companies have drifted away from sports clubs to more subtle forms of advertising.

49 million TV viewers does not sound right. On the BBC there was just the CC, Regal Trophy and internationals. The level of TV coverage is about the same (No RT, but more CC games) so I dont understand how that can be attributed to Sky. Ok, there was Scrumdown in Yorkshire, but I doubt that added tens of millions. Be interested to see a breakdown of this 49 million figure.

Many of the household names in 1995 were ex-Rugby Union players, they drove a lot of the public perception. That all dried up in 1996 when RU went full time pro, it was nothing to do with SL. Without Sky pretty much every top quality RL player in the UK would have switched to RU or the NRL overnight.

I'm not aware of any RL player from that era being a millionaire from playing, but the three you specifically mention (Hanley, Davies, Offiah) played for clubs which drove themselves to bankruptancy and lost their grounds through paying excessive wages before SL came along.

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It's been interesting reading the comments to the original post. It would be nice to know who DoubleD, gingerjon and Damien support.

I hope I am wrong and there will be life under SL - sadly I don't think so!

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2 hours ago, jroyales said:

It's been interesting reading the comments to the original post. It would be nice to know who DoubleD, gingerjon and Damien support.

I hope I am wrong and there will be life under SL - sadly I don't think so!

London.

The last team I was a regular at was Hemel. I’ve frozen my nads off at Carlisle, Swinton and plenty of others.

I live too far away from any team right now.

Not sure how that helps you but there you go.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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5 hours ago, jroyales said:

The first schism was a breakaway from the power mad brokers down south who weren't prepared to support the full sport. They looked after their own interests and damned the rest. This is exactly what SL are proposing when they take over the Sky money. They want to keep it all and the Championship and League 1 can go to the wall. SL seem to think that they deserve the money, what they don't realise is that when Sky pulls out they will also be damned because their attendances won't be adequate to run a professional club - with the exception of one or two with money men behind them.

The time is NOW for ALL clubs outside of SL to breakaway, a "Second Great Schism."

It could return our game to winter, the amateur game could also follow suit so attracting more players away from summer pursuits, all television deals and other could be poured back into our game , there must be many more pluses than negatives for a breakaway.

Sadly, all the chairmen outside of SL will just wait and see what happens! They already know, they will go out of existence within a year so following Carlisle, Bramley, Nottingham, Kent Invicta, Fulham, Scarborough, Huyton, Chorley out of existence and sadly are now just a memory.

......really.

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5 hours ago, jroyales said:

The first schism was a breakaway from the power mad brokers down south who weren't prepared to support the full sport. They looked after their own interests and damned the rest. This is exactly what SL are proposing when they take over the Sky money. They want to keep it all and the Championship and League 1 can go to the wall. SL seem to think that they deserve the money, what they don't realise is that when Sky pulls out they will also be damned because their attendances won't be adequate to run a professional club - with the exception of one or two with money men behind them.

The time is NOW for ALL clubs outside of SL to breakaway, a "Second Great Schism."

It could return our game to winter, the amateur game could also follow suit so attracting more players away from summer pursuits, all television deals and other could be poured back into our game , there must be many more pluses than negatives for a breakaway.

Sadly, all the chairmen outside of SL will just wait and see what happens! They already know, they will go out of existence within a year so following Carlisle, Bramley, Nottingham, Kent Invicta, Fulham, Scarborough, Huyton, Chorley out of existence and sadly are now just a memory.

Most of those clubs disappeared before Super League existed.

You make the common mistake of harking back to a glorious past that never truly existed, and propose simplistic solutions that would in reality do more harm than good.

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42 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Most of those clubs disappeared before Super League existed.

You make the common mistake of harking back to a glorious past that never truly existed, and propose simplistic solutions that would in reality do more harm than good.

Absolutely, in the late 70s and start of 80s Wigan were only getting around 5,000, the pullers were the two Hull clubs. By the time Wigan's crowds started to take off Hull Kr where in decline and there crowds fell off. Then Hull fell away, the average across the board remained low as a consequence but was on an upward trend after years of decline and stagnation. 

The start of SL did see crowds fall, the last winter season kept short and the first summer was short and people hadn't adjusted, however after a couple of season SL at tendencies recovered and grew. 

Edited by Padge
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Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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3 hours ago, John Drake said:

Most of those clubs disappeared before Super League existed.

You make the common mistake of harking back to a glorious past that never truly existed, and propose simplistic solutions that would in reality do more harm than good.

So should this be moved to the Brexit thread?

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And when they found our shadows

Grouped around the TV sets

They ran down every lead

They repeated every test

They checked out all the data on their lists

And then the alien anthropologists

Admitted they were still perplexed

But on eliminating every other reason

For our sad demise

They logged the only explanation left

This species has amused itself to death

No tears to cry no feelings left

This species has amused itself to death

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23 hours ago, jroyales said:

The first schism was a breakaway from the power mad brokers down south who weren't prepared to support the full sport. They looked after their own interests and damned the rest. This is exactly what SL are proposing when they take over the Sky money. They want to keep it all and the Championship and League 1 can go to the wall. SL seem to think that they deserve the money, what they don't realise is that when Sky pulls out they will also be damned because their attendances won't be adequate to run a professional club - with the exception of one or two with money men behind them.

The time is NOW for ALL clubs outside of SL to breakaway, a "Second Great Schism."

It could return our game to winter, the amateur game could also follow suit so attracting more players away from summer pursuits, all television deals and other could be poured back into our game , there must be many more pluses than negatives for a breakaway.

Sadly, all the chairmen outside of SL will just wait and see what happens! They already know, they will go out of existence within a year so following Carlisle, Bramley, Nottingham, Kent Invicta, Fulham, Scarborough, Huyton, Chorley out of existence and sadly are now just a memory.

I don't know what you are on but please can i have some ?

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