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Tony Smith - bad taste

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I think he is right, especial the 2nd time Saints put out an almost academy+ team.

I see some using the first weakened team to make their point, but it doesn't wash for the really weak team 2nd time around. As I've said before it also shows what they really think of the paying public.

He is right to bring it up again as their needs to be some rules that can be applied to such circumstance. A body that can look at the team prior to and immediate after together with medical advice as to how blatant or reasonable any weakened team selection is.  

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29 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

The comments about Saints fielding a weakened team against London make me laugh.  We did the same against Leeds (and we beat them too) but they didn't end up in the relegation zone.  That might be because they managed to win enough games to secure their place rather than relied upon other teams to stay up, as HKR did.  I notice that HKR lost their final game so had London won, HKR would have gone down.  Maybe Smith needs to take stock of his coaching creds rather than moan about London and Saints.  Maybe Smith needs another break from the sport.  He went out whinging and it seems he's only been back in the sport five minutes before he's whinging again.  

I think he’s perceived as being pretty well respected.  

If Saints had done this once, then fair enough, but the 2nd time, the team was just as weak - some perceive even weaker.

He’s made his comments after the fact, not as some form of excuse and has been quite consistent in his view.

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16 minutes ago, redjonn said:

I think he is right, especial the 2nd time Saints put out an almost academy+ team.

I see some using the first weakened team to make their point, but it doesn't wash for the really weak team 2nd time around. As I've said before it also shows what they really think of the paying public.

He is right to bring it up again as their needs to be some rules that can be applied to such circumstance. A body that can look at the team prior to and immediate after together with medical advice as to how blatant or reasonable any weakened team selection is.  

The paying public were given plenty of notice about the team Saints would have out, with Holbrook even telling people on Monday in the local news rather than wait till the squad was named. They could choose not to go.

Which first team squad players should Saints not be allowed to play? Why wasn't us playing an "academy+" team an issue when we rested 7 of our starting 13 against Catalan in April? Oh, we won by 36 points...

Edited by Saint 1
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P&R has a place in our sport, but it has to be fair with each club expected to put out their strongest team each game. Plus all clubs playing the same fixtures as the others. Otherwise it is harder to argue that the weakest team are the team relegated or promoted, especially if we are by means of a lowest denominator salary cap trying to even out the competition so all clubs are as likely to succeed or fail.  Otherwise a case can be made that a factor was either due to an unfair fixture list (loop matches) or weakened opposition teams (as in the 2nd saints weakened team to play London).

On a wider front I pays my money in the hope of seeing the best teams playing, why should I bother if other teams take the same approach...

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5 minutes ago, Saint 1 said:

The paying public were given plenty of notice about the team Saints would have out, with Holbrook even telling people on Monday in the local news rather than wait till the squad was named. They could choose not to go.

Which first team squad players should Saints not be allowed to play? Why wasn't us playing an "academy+" team an issue when we rested 7 of our starting 13 against Catalan in April? Oh, we won by 36 points...

I'm a Saints fan myself and I thought it stank.... I decided not to travel, so your right I made that choice. 

It does not say much about the integrity of the competition, whether its the club I support or another. I can't argue that it was the right thing to do.  As it turned out his over resting of players over the period may well be a factor in how the team performed at Wembley - maybe,  maybe not.  

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14 minutes ago, Saint 1 said:

The paying public were given plenty of notice about the team Saints would have out, with Holbrook even telling people on Monday in the local news rather than wait till the squad was named. They could choose not to go.

Which first team squad players should Saints not be allowed to play? Why wasn't us playing an "academy+" team an issue when we rested 7 of our starting 13 against Catalan in April? Oh, we won by 36 points...

With respect, I think you are taking this whole conversation as an attack on the integrity of Saints.  I don't think it is.

I think Saints did 'earn' the right to rest players during the season because they were dominant enough to do so.

If you look at the wider picture though.  If two teams entered the final game of the season on equal points and one of the opponents put out a highly weakened team (not resting players for future games, but as an attempt to manipulate the results) there is absolutely nothing in the operational rules to disallow this from happening. 

Surely there should be for the integrity of the sport?

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Obviously I like Smith, being a Warrington fan, and I’m not arguing against his concerns as I think he has some valid points.

However, I do remember the odd occasion when he would field an understrength side when in suited whilst at Warrington 😊.

I think he’s just saying what he thinks he needs to be seen saying in charge of a club that has just survived the drop.   He doesn’t need to, he’s not really responsible for the mess they’re in.

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I would just like to interrupt this conversation and say that this is my 5,000th post since joining this forum.

Thanks for the Rugby League banter everyone, I really enjoy it.

And no Mrs Dunbar, I am not "wasting my time talking to those people on the internet again"!

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Just now, Cheshire Setter said:

Obviously I like Smith, being a Warrington fan, and I’m not arguing against his concerns as I think he has some valid points.

However, I do remember the odd occasion when he would field an understrength side when in suited whilst at Warrington 😊.

I think he’s just saying what he thinks he needs to be seen saying in charge of a club that has just survived the drop.   He doesn’t need to, he’s not really responsible for the mess they’re in.

I seem to remember when he coached the Wolves he put out a weakened against London once at the The Stoop and they got tanked

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3 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

With respect, I think you are taking this whole conversation as an attack on the integrity of Saints.  I don't think it is.

I think Saints did 'earn' the right to rest players during the season because they were dominant enough to do so.

If you look at the wider picture though.  If two teams entered the final game of the season on equal points and one of the opponents put out a highly weakened team (not resting players for future games, but as an attempt to manipulate the results) there is absolutely nothing in the operational rules to disallow this from happening. 

Surely there should be for the integrity of the sport?

I agree... or say Salford had already secured their position, they decided to rest almost the whole team (in readiness for play-off game) that played Hull KR... giving them a huge advantage on the final day.

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Its not the weakend team that's so much the issue, but the implication that the weakest team might not be relegated because the fixture list isnt balanced and there is a disparity between the top and bottom

Hull KR could have settled the season last week, but bottled it, Smith has right to be concerned but I think is concerned about the wrong things 

Ultimately London did way better than expected, but still went back down immediately, chances are that other than an existing club imploding the same will happen.

The game simply cannot support automatic relegation, not without accepting that if we have it then only 6 teams will have any real chance of being stable from season to season, the other 6 simply will be fighting over the scraps. 

I watched this format for 40 years, it absolutely failed 

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16 minutes ago, redjonn said:

P&R has a place in our sport, but it has to be fair with each club expected to put out their strongest team each game. 

Clubs have never done this in the entire time I have watched Rugby League. Same with Football and most other sports.

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6 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

I seem to remember when he coached the Wolves he put out a weakened against London once at the The Stoop and they got tanked

Do you? We have had two hammering by London in recent times. 2009 and 2012. A quick look at those teams doesn't suggest weakened teams, packed with the likes of Briers, Myler, Morley etc. And both were in non P&R seasons.

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What a thoroughly unlikeable bloke who seems to love moaning about absolutely anything. He’s already complained about this so why say it again? You won, you stayed up, now be gracious in victory and show some class. 

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13 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

I seem to remember when he coached the Wolves he put out a weakened against London once at the The Stoop and they got tanked

Possibly... 😉

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3 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

Hull KR were joint bottom (which they were if you look at the table) because they were one of the two worst teams in the league. They need to concentrate on making sure they aren't there again next season - which, judging by their recruitment thus far, they probably will be.

There seems to be a pattern to many of the signings they have made. 

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It is a real issue he is highlighting, his timing is rubbish though. 

He should have waited until all the dust had settled pulled out the appropriate regulation and asked are we going to apply it or not. 


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Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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I agree with Smith. The Saints teams that played London are the twenty times the scandal that Robert Hicks cup final refereeing was. It's unthinkable if that had caused someone else to go down, with the consequences that involves.

We need to put rules back in place about weakened teams.

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18 minutes ago, Padge said:

It is a real issue he is highlighting, his timing is rubbish though. 

He should have waited until all the dust had settled pulled out the appropriate regulation and asked are we going to apply it or not. 

I think to be fair, much of the discussion of the weekend has been about the relegation slots so I expect he had a window to get his feelings across here while it is the hot topic.

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4 hours ago, marklaspalmas said:

Wow? How low does Smith want to drag his tarnished reputation with this kind of sore-winner whining??

Good coach. World champion bet-wetting whinger.

This.

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Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think to be fair, much of the discussion of the weekend has been about the relegation slots so I expect he had a window to get his feelings across here while it is the hot topic.

But then you end up with his argument being dismissed because of the predictive position they found themselves in. The message is lost under a pile of sour grapes shouting. 

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Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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How many players did Hull KR get through this season with swaps, loans, buys etc.

And he has the temerity to have a go at a side which only brought in Brock Lamb, from memory.

Hull KR couldn't have stacked the deck any better.

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

Do you? We have had two hammering by London in recent times. 2009 and 2012. A quick look at those teams doesn't suggest weakened teams, packed with the likes of Briers, Myler, Morley etc. And both were in non P&R seasons.

I think he’s referring to the 2012 match Dave.   I think we did rest a fair few that day, deliberately.

I’ll be honest, I wasn’t complaining at 5pm the following Saturday ☺️

EDIT: Found a link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/19242024

Edited by Cheshire Setter
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And yet again.

This was the League One West Wales Raider type team we beat in the first game.

The revisionist history is unbelievable.

St Helens: Welsby; Swift, Naiqama, Percival, Grace, Richardson, Fages; Lees, Roby, Thompson, Paulo, Peyroux, Knowles.

Interchanges: LMS, Amor, Ashworth, Costello.

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