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philipw

18-19 Oct: World Cup 9s (TV)

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1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Not really got an opinion on this , just pointing out the lack of ' fine detailing ' when suggesting various ideas ?

"Ideas" are great until you have to make them work and not lose a fortune in the process.

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12 minutes ago, Gibbo said:

Ponga had a poor Nines IMO.

So much was expected and only a little delivered along with a few mistakes and some ball hogging.

Yeah it be interesting next year in nrl. It will be his defining season alot of hype at present.

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1 minute ago, winnyason said:

Yeah it be interesting next year in nrl. It will be his defining season alot of hype at present.

He has done pretty well with Newcastle in the last two seasons.

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3 minutes ago, winnyason said:

Yeah true i mean samoa, tonga fit into same category as does scotland and ireland.

Or England ? or maybe Australia depending on your definition of when a young immigrant can be selected to play for the Kangaroos.

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1 hour ago, Pulga said:

 

 

Cheers

 

So 900,000 Australia-wide for a RU World Cup Q/F  on FTA and PAY

v 150,000 for the Nines on PAY (but presumably, the PAY figure would be boosted by the fact it ran for 9 hours …)

So … not bad for the Nines, would people say??

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Jim from Oz said:

Cheers

 

So 900,000 Australia-wide for a RU World Cup Q/F  on FTA and PAY

v 150,000 for the Nines on PAY (but presumably, the PAY figure would be boosted by the fact it ran for 9 hours …)

So … not bad for the Nines, would people say??

 

 

Yeah, I think it was reasonable. I'd say Fox would be pretty happy. You can stick more ads in 9s too so it's more valuable.


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Having our game on Pay TV is a bad option.

I know many friends of mine in Oz said that the feed was third world quality with lag and buffering throughout the Nines particularly on "Kayo"

Free to air with the broadest reach is the way to go.

Remember when England played Samoa or Tonga on pay for view internet subscription a few years ago? about 10k bothered to watch it at best.

 

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16 hours ago, Shaggy said:

Exactly.

Plus, up and coming players were being selected for the Knights, so it really was not practical to pick yet another bunch of inexperienced (but possibly faster) players.  Australia were able to pick purely for this tournament.

The first option (I guess) was to put together a mix of players who would likely be in the test squad and some other reserves.

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10 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Not really got an opinion on this , just pointing out the lack of ' fine detailing ' when suggesting various ideas ?

I am just a fan so not a event organiser,  but if you cycle every four years and the chance it in your own backyard is once in every  16/20 years it won't die of overkill. Australia had their turn, if you go uk, france, canada, NZ, spain(Barcelona) it woyld be easier to promote and sell, also countries like Jamica,Serbia Ireland, Canada, USA and other countries would have targets to get sides in time for the 9s world cup. And shen it comes to Australia and Sydney has regularly failed to promote international events other states would probably be a better option. 

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16 hours ago, Futtocks said:

To be honest, if you asked most people who identified as Rugby Union fans who the current World Champions of 15-a-side were, they wouldn't have a clue either.

Haha the things some of you will say to make yourselves feel better

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3 hours ago, Gibbo said:

Having our game on Pay TV is a bad option.

I know many friends of mine in Oz said that the feed was third world quality with lag and buffering throughout the Nines particularly on "Kayo"

Free to air with the broadest reach is the way to go.

Remember when England played Samoa or Tonga on pay for view internet subscription a few years ago? about 10k bothered to watch it at best.

 

I watched it on Pay TV via satellite and I got no lag or buffering. I tried Kayo once and it was bad. Biggest RL problem with Foxtel is that Qld, although the second-biggest potential RL audience, also has the lowest Foxtel uptake. They had never needed to pay for RL on TV because Channel 9 always had the Broncos on Friday night free.

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Very enjoyable overall . Hopefully more 9s in the future . Predictable final and result I guess .England very disappointing I thought . Hope GB goes better in the coming weeks . Everyone had a go though and got into the spirit of it . Fast moving and fast decision making which is a joy . Most right , a few wrong but you cop it when they’re actually making the calls ( VR ones )and we get on with it . Not much to say about the women’s game , I’d no idea where we stood compared to the anzacs but it looked a pretty big  chasm . Hopefully this grows in time , more folk watch , and over the next few weeks we win some test matches 

Edited by DavidM

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1 hour ago, DavidM said:

Fast moving and fast decision making which is a joy

It's interesting when you look back through this thread that people were saying that the video ref must come into 9's to get the decisions right.

But the best team in the tournament won. And if we didn't have the video ref in Super League the best team would still win. Same with the NRL.

TV officials is something we have been brainwashing into thinking are essential to sport to guarantee a fair outcome. It really isn't true. If we let referees make their own decisions they will get some right and some wrong but the best teams will win in the end.

Was every Premier League season and every Premier League champion rendered invalid because VAR was only introduced this year? 

Were the McEnroe vs. Borg Wimbledon finals invalid just because we didn't have Hawkeye?

We don't need TV to referee our game, let the refs do it. It will all be ok in the end.

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3 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

It's interesting when you look back through this thread that people were saying that the video ref must come into 9's to get the decisions right.

But the best team in the tournament won. And if we didn't have the video ref in Super League the best team would still win. Same with the NRL.

TV officials is something we have been brainwashing into thinking are essential to sport to guarantee a fair outcome. It really isn't true. If we let referees make their own decisions they will get some right and some wrong but the best teams will win in the end.

Was every Premier League season and every Premier League champion rendered invalid because VAR was only introduced this year? 

Were the McEnroe vs. Borg Wimbledon finals invalid just because we didn't have Hawkeye?

We don't need TV to referee our game, let the refs do it. It will all be ok in the end.

Whatever happens, VR or no VR, one referee or two, someone will claim that any given decision is the greatest injustice in human history. That'll be sport, then.


"Men will be proud to say 'I am a European'. We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land." (Winston Churchill)

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1 minute ago, Futtocks said:

Whatever happens, VR or no VR, one referee or two, someone will claim that any given decision is the greatest injustice in human history. That'll be sport, then.

The thing is, if you look at two of the biggest moments in English sporting history, the goal from Geoff Hurst against West Germany which may or may not have crossed the line and the Maradona 'Hand of God', they would have been resolved with technology and we would have lost two of the most iconic sporting moments. 

Sport is about passion and emotion, it doesn't need to be this clinical. I know we get more results right as a result of technology but I also think we lose something as well.

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7 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

Whatever happens, VR or no VR, one referee or two, someone will claim that any given decision is the greatest injustice in human history. That'll be sport, then.

I’m finding football fascinating in this respect . It’ll deal with incidents of fact ... it’ll take away controversy and confusion etc etc . That’s all going well then . In reality there’s still subjectivity , still opinion ... only someone else’s . Introduce this and the nature of the game changes and it just infiltrates further and further . Cricket is not so intolerable as it’s deliberately limited , but in terms of rugby league the sooner they get shot of it the better . I watch rugby , we all get home by half past four , moan at the ref’s decisions but no one bothers and we all go back next week . Have a VR and the officials use it as a comfort blanket and actually stop making important decisions 

Edited by DavidM
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15 minutes ago, DavidM said:

I’m finding football fascinating in this respect . It’ll deal with incidents of fact ... it’ll take away controversy and confusion etc etc . That’s all going well then . In reality there’s still subjectivity , still opinion ... only someone else’s . Introduce this and the nature of the game changes and it just infiltrates further and further . Cricket is not so intolerable as it’s deliberately limited , but in terms of rugby league the sooner they get shot of it the better . I watch rugby , we all get home by half past four , moan at the ref’s decisions but no one bothers and we all go back next week . Have a VR and the officials use it as a comfort blanket and actually stop making important decisions 

Some folks are still picking at mental scabs from decades ago. Mention Chris Joynt and voluntary tackles, for instance. People like this can't be helped, because they even moan about the refereeing in matches their team won.


"Men will be proud to say 'I am a European'. We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land." (Winston Churchill)

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Much of the appeal of nines is the numerous games over a couple of days, the short games and the general speed of the game. Stopping the game for Video ref decisions doesn't make sense to me in that context and adds nothing.

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7 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

Some folks are still picking at mental scabs from decades ago. Mention Chris Joynt and voluntary tackles, for instance. People like this can't be helped, because they even moan about the refereeing in matches their team won.

Well indeed , therapy needs to come into then . Monday morning needs to be let it go time , you need to free up space to moan next week . But it’s slightly ironic that a VR never eliminates this , it’s just intrinsic in the game 

Edited by DavidM

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1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

Things evolve. It's really odd to decide that one specific are of the game wont evolve in spite of the obvious benefits.

I dont think the wrong decisions we saw added anything to the spectacle

But watching the nines you see that when they make calls due to necessity they get it right to an overwhelming degree . A ref , touchie and in goal touchie does the job . The small minority are wrong or debatable but it’s myth you don’t get the same with a VR . It turns refs into robots refereeing by remote control abrogating responsibility to someone else purely because it’s there . Get them back officiating games , and 99% of the game still does this amazingly enough 

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3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Things evolve. It's really odd to decide that one specific are of the game wont evolve in spite of the obvious benefits.

I dont think the wrong decisions we saw added anything to the spectacle

My argument is that there are no obvious benefits, that is a presumption you have made. Yes, decisions are more accurate but they steal the emotion from the sport as we all stand around waiting to see if we can celebrate.

And in the end the best team wins anyway.

I quoted two iconic incidents in world sport to emphasise the clinical nature of the VR. I don't expect wrong decisions to 'add' anything to the spectacle, my point is that the VR takes things away.

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3 minutes ago, DavidM said:

But watching the nines you see that when they make calls due to necessity they get it right to an overwhelming degree . A ref , touchie and in goal touchie does the job . The small minority are wrong or debatable but it’s myth you don’t get the same with a VR . It turns refs into robots refereeing by remote control abrogating responsibility to someone else purely because it’s there . Get them back officiating games , and 99% of the game still does this amazingly enough 

Careful! That's dangerously close to admitting that fully-qualified, experienced professional Rugby League referees are actually good at their job. You'll get letters... in green ink.

Edited by Futtocks
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"Men will be proud to say 'I am a European'. We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land." (Winston Churchill)

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4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

There are obvious benefits. Fewer incorrect decisions.

I cannot think of another situation whereby we would want more incorrect decisions or we would be better for doing so.

And whilst those incidents are well known they are infamous rather than iconic. In the same way as Mike Tyson biting evander holyfields ear or Eric cantona kicking a fan. I dont think anyone would want to create  a situation where we had more of those incidents.

The fact is we didnt start with VR because the technology wasnt there. But if we had, nobody would be arguing for us to not have them. 

There are very few fans who are young or new to the game who want rid of the VR. 

I do wonder how you got from removing video referees to players kicking fans or biting each other.

However, let's leave that to one side.

History has taught me to stop this conversation with you and so I will be doing just that.

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Back on topic, and this has probably been discussed in the 32 pages already but England’s side was predictably ineffective. They do not have the mobility or agility in their side. Players like Gildart, Newman should’ve been there and others would’ve got in from Saints (like Makinson) if it wasn’t for the Grand Final. The likes of Handley, Hall and McGillvary are not mobile enough. It was disappointing we couldn’t showcase our true ability. The likes of Bateman, Currie and Hodgson would also have been good to see. Tomkins and perhaps Graham were the only ones who impressed. Watts was surprisingly disappointing 

It was also an eye opener how far the women’s team are behind Australia and NZ - we just don’t have the athletes they do. I’m sure we’ll make vast improvements over the coming years but the schism is vast at the moment. Hardcastle impressed me though 

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