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Robin Evans

Is debt the last taboo?

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Pal of mine not been himself lately to the point i was becoming concerned. I nipped round to see him.

After a good hour of prizing info out of him, the reasons for his poor mental health, distress and sense of desolation... turns out is debt.

Now, having been through and come out of the other side of debt and being happy to provide help and counselling, i knew what to do to resolve the situation and get the lad back some life. You can see the sense of relief on his face. He has a well managed plan and can now see a future.

Why don't people discuss debt? Leaving it resolves nothing and it just festers. Help really is available and it can be overcome.

People happily discuss their sexuality,  drug& alcohol addictions, gambling, obesity..... even seek help for more unhealthy or illegal activities.....

But folks in debt just clam up????

Come on folks..... if you're up sh it creek moneywise, just talk to a specialist. Get it out in the open. Get a plan together.

Its not the end of the world.....

Love n peace

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8 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Pal of mine not been himself lately to the point i was becoming concerned. I nipped round to see him.

After a good hour of prizing info out of him, the reasons for his poor mental health, distress and sense of desolation... turns out is debt.

Now, having been through and come out of the other side of debt and being happy to provide help and counselling, i knew what to do to resolve the situation and get the lad back some life. You can see the sense of relief on his face. He has a well managed plan and can now see a future.

Why don't people discuss debt? Leaving it resolves nothing and it just festers. Help really is available and it can be overcome.

People happily discuss their sexuality,  drug& alcohol addictions, gambling, obesity..... even seek help for more unhealthy or illegal activities.....

But folks in debt just clam up????

Come on folks..... if you're up sh it creek moneywise, just talk to a specialist. Get it out in the open. Get a plan together.

Its not the end of the world.....

Love n peace

Its because they are ashamed of themselves and would have to admit failure....its humiliating.

Edited by Kayakman
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Agree ... although I can understand that maybe some people might be ashamed of the reason why they have become in debt.

If it has come about because of possibly being made redundant then there would be no reason to feel any shame but if it is just due to having spent beyond their own means then maybe they don't wish to admit it.

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In our society people generally don't talk about money for politeness reasons and debt definitely features in this.

I suppose as somebody alluded earlier it is seen as a failure, especially if you don't have good reason like redundancy for instance. It's just a failure to manage your money and/or an attempt to keep up with the Jones' when you can't afford it.

I'm not sure how much good it would have done, but I wish they'd done more on money management in high school. I never got a credit card until ironically I sold them over the phones. At the time they were throwing them at me with ridiculous credit limits.

When I went travelling at 22/23, I was took them with me as a back up for my savings. I worked in Aus but didn't save anything, so decided to fund the last exciting 6 weeks down the East Coast and Thailand on credit cards. I don't regret that but I do regret not even trying to pay it off for about 8 years and treating my overdraft as free money. I'm not stupid and I'm good at maths but it wasn't until I sat down and added up how much I was paying in pure debt that I decided to do something about it.

As I've had setbacks (unemployed for a year) and life has happened (kids) it's been much harder getting rid of than I ever imagined. 

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1 hour ago, Maximus Decimus said:

In our society people generally don't talk about money for politeness reasons and debt definitely features in this.

I suppose as somebody alluded earlier it is seen as a failure, especially if you don't have good reason like redundancy for instance. It's just a failure to manage your money and/or an attempt to keep up with the Jones' when you can't afford it.

I'm not sure how much good it would have done, but I wish they'd done more on money management in high school. I never got a credit card until ironically I sold them over the phones. At the time they were throwing them at me with ridiculous credit limits.

When I went travelling at 22/23, I was took them with me as a back up for my savings. I worked in Aus but didn't save anything, so decided to fund the last exciting 6 weeks down the East Coast and Thailand on credit cards. I don't regret that but I do regret not even trying to pay it off for about 8 years and treating my overdraft as free money. I'm not stupid and I'm good at maths but it wasn't until I sat down and added up how much I was paying in pure debt that I decided to do something about it.

As I've had setbacks (unemployed for a year) and life has happened (kids) it's been much harder getting rid of than I ever imagined. 

Its always easier to spend than pay back...always.

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There are so m any debt solutions with more coming soon. There are many charities that will help. Don't suffer, get help. 

I am a great believer in teaching maths with a practical bent. Explain why kids need to learn %, calculating area etc. 

When I was at school (Primary) we had a school bank (well TSB came in each week) we had lessons about saving. I'd say in the current climate of instant gratification the realities should be taught. I am sure Steph McGovern does stuff for school kids.

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Has your mate thought about consolidating all his debts into one manageable loan?

It’s a surefire way to sort it out. Carol Vorderman said so.

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Some people establish money habits when young and then it becomes as natural as breathing. Changing habits can feel like holding your breathe.

I know quite a few people in their 50s who are drowning in debt and are seriously stressed about the life options they have as they age. During their early years they’d spend and borrow like it was going out of style. They brought it upon themselves.

For the others who struggle due to external factors such as illness, responsibilities thrust upon them and other life circumstances, it can be very hard and stressful. I’ve been there and I hated it. I’ve turned off the hot water system, weighed dried legumes before soaking and cooking them, had one or two light bulbs, walked for distances up to 10km etc. 

I’ve been there and done that and it’s horrible however those money saving measures did give me a feeling of control over my life for those years.

You have to have a plan and stick to it as it gives back at least a tiny bit of control and improved mental health.

Best of luck.

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1 hour ago, Red Willow said:

There are so m any debt solutions with more coming soon. There are many charities that will help. Don't suffer, get help. 

I am a great believer in teaching maths with a practical bent. Explain why kids need to learn %, calculating area etc. 

When I was at school (Primary) we had a school bank (well TSB came in each week) we had lessons about saving. I'd say in the current climate of instant gratification the realities should be taught. I am sure Steph McGovern does stuff for school kids.

There has been a push to get it included on the curriculum, its as important as many other subjects I feel.  

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With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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1 hour ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

There has been a push to get it included on the curriculum, its as important as many other subjects I feel.  

I've just finished teaching a prototype unit to 15 year olds.

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11 hours ago, Copa said:

Some people establish money habits when young and then it becomes as natural as breathing. Changing habits can feel like holding your breathe.

I know quite a few people in their 50s who are drowning in debt and are seriously stressed about the life options they have as they age. During their early years they’d spend and borrow like it was going out of style. They brought it upon themselves.

 

This and a combination of redundancy and a career change left me up sh it creek. It got ridiculous the amounts i was paying in interest alone. It couldn't continue.... and it didn't.

The worry, stress and distress and feelings of helplessness that i recognised in my pal, I've felt first hand.

A plan. Managed and adhered to every month meant i got a break. Someone else was doing the arguing with debtors. I was managing the debt.... not debt controlling me.

Its been sorted a few years now and the sense of relief overwhelming.

It really can be sorted. Just speak to an independent and get the ball rolling.

Some of the behaviour by the banks making debt freely available is not much more ethical that dealers offering a free bag to try....

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classic but nothing changes 


the grass may be greener on the other side of the fence but the crows are just as black

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21 hours ago, Johnoco said:

Has your mate thought about consolidating all his debts into one manageable loan?

It’s a surefire way to sort it out. Carol Vorderman said so.

That's it in a nutshell. The companies out there that keep saying "take out more debt to pay your debt, and don't worry about that interest, it's just a number and you now only have us to pay, and why don't you have a nice holiday and a better car while you're at it."

When your head is in the hole, it's hard to look up to see how to fix it.

We're completely debt free, but for our mortgage, but it took six years in an IVA (Individual Voluntary Arrangement) to do it and only after we were pushed in that direction by our bank (Barclays) did we even know that was an option.

If we can't pay for it with free cash in our bank account now, we don't need it. I can't see any way I'd ever get a sizeable debt again as there be demons that way.

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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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23 minutes ago, ckn said:

That's it in a nutshell. The companies out there that keep saying "take out more debt to pay your debt, and don't worry about that interest, it's just a number and you now only have us to pay, and why don't you have a nice holiday and a better car while you're at it."

When your head is in the hole, it's hard to look up to see how to fix it.

We're completely debt free, but for our mortgage, but it took six years in an IVA (Individual Voluntary Arrangement) to do it and only after we were pushed in that direction by our bank (Barclays) did we even know that was an option.

If we can't pay for it with free cash in our bank account now, we don't need it. I can't see any way I'd ever get a sizeable debt again as there be demons that way.

I start teaching them about the 5 rules of gold from The Richest Man In Babylon...then we cover "The Wealthy Barber".

We start every lesson with an update on the Wolfpack of course.

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21 minutes ago, ckn said:

That's it in a nutshell. The companies out there that keep saying "take out more debt to pay your debt, and don't worry about that interest, it's just a number and you now only have us to pay, and why don't you have a nice holiday and a better car while you're at it."

When your head is in the hole, it's hard to look up to see how to fix it.

We're completely debt free, but for our mortgage, but it took six years in an IVA (Individual Voluntary Arrangement) to do it and only after we were pushed in that direction by our bank (Barclays) did we even know that was an option.

If we can't pay for it with free cash in our bank account now, we don't need it. I can't see any way I'd ever get a sizeable debt again as there be demons that way.

It’s a real issue for many people for sure. I remember a good mate getting a 110% mortgage in order to both get a flat and sort out his debts....he sold the flat a couple of years later, just as much in debt as when he started. 
 

I have never been in debt, possibly because I grew up with very little and only get stuff that I can afford (or realistically need and can afford to pay on credit) There again my sister is a bit of a spendthrift and always having money issues. 

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Sadly the world is full of people driving nearly new Audis, Range Rovers and so on, living in houses well beyond their real means who haven't really got a pot to pee in. Low interest rates, car PCP's and credit cards fuel the whole bubble. (Loads of them where I live, plastic card millionaires).

Next debt crisis coming soon folks !

Not tarring the unfortunates who have lived within their means and have the rug pulled via redundancy or similar with that brush though. Been there myself a few times, not nice.

Two sides to every coin, if the government helps the deserving, they'll have to help the feckless, reckless and greedy.

No easy answers. Society needs to change. 

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This is a vital area, one in which I have some experience in advice. If anyone feels the need, Step Change and Christians Against Poverty are 2 wonderful charities which offer free advice and can take over the negotiations for you to reduce monthly re-payments. They can also handle all correspondence, to eliminate the stress of dealing with demands via the post. They have qualified lawyers too, to handle disputes and summonses.

All free.

Edited by dixiedean
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On 20/01/2020 at 21:29, BryanC said:

Sadly the world is full of people driving nearly new Audis, Range Rovers and so on, living in houses well beyond their real means who haven't really got a pot to pee in. Low interest rates, car PCP's and credit cards fuel the whole bubble. (Loads of them where I live, plastic card millionaires).

Next debt crisis coming soon folks !

Not tarring the unfortunates who have lived within their means and have the rug pulled via redundancy or similar with that brush though. Been there myself a few times, not nice.

Two sides to every coin, if the government helps the deserving, they'll have to help the feckless, reckless and greedy.

No easy answers. Society needs to change. 

I teach a girl who spent 6 months living in a bedsit because her family had lost the family home and had nowhere to go. 

Mum is a single parent and until recently was driving a BMW. She recently changed it for an Audi... 

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17 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I teach a girl who spent 6 months living in a bedsit because her family had lost the family home and had nowhere to go. 

Mum is a single parent and until recently was driving a BMW. She recently changed it for an Audi... 

Our car is a 2006 model and my cousin, who earns about half what I do, keeps on boasting about his 2019 Audi A4 that he got brand new and why don’t I get one as well. He also keeps boasting about his house that’s worth twice ours, and surely we can upgrade to a bigger house. He goes on 2-3 holidays a year to nice places, and he can’t understand why we don’t spend 5 figures a year on holidays.

His plan is to keep getting promotions and pay rises to keep ahead of bills. That’ll work well then.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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There are people being daft and circumstances.

I have an OK wage and my wife earns too, we are comfortable. No debt other than the outstanding mortgage. But, what made that easy was getting a bigger wage. Having a middle class job and living in Oxford made it very tough to save, I was far better off with a working class job in Liverpool. I remember a bloke from the LSE at the time saying that our generation should have a more modest car, go on fewer holidays and perhaps only go out once or twice a week to eat. Of course, what he thought was a more modest lifestyle was far more extravagant than we could aspite to.

I saved pretty hard to put aside 100 quid a month and frankly, I should not have bothered. It was not worth the worn shoes etc. I recall wondering how other people seemed to be better off, the answer is some had other income (this is Oxford and that is a slight taboo) and others were falling into debt.

It is easy to sneer at younger people, but I wanted a serious relationship and to take part in the lifestyle that I saw around me. It is easy to dismiss that as an older man, but I am not sure it would be wise.

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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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On ‎22‎/‎01‎/‎2020 at 20:18, Bob8 said:

There are people being daft and circumstances.

I have an OK wage and my wife earns too, we are comfortable. No debt other than the outstanding mortgage. But, what made that easy was getting a bigger wage. Having a middle class job and living in Oxford made it very tough to save, I was far better off with a working class job in Liverpool. I remember a bloke from the LSE at the time saying that our generation should have a more modest car, go on fewer holidays and perhaps only go out once or twice a week to eat. Of course, what he thought was a more modest lifestyle was far more extravagant than we could aspite to.

I saved pretty hard to put aside 100 quid a month and frankly, I should not have bothered. It was not worth the worn shoes etc. I recall wondering how other people seemed to be better off, the answer is some had other income (this is Oxford and that is a slight taboo) and others were falling into debt.

It is easy to sneer at younger people, but I wanted a serious relationship and to take part in the lifestyle that I saw around me. It is easy to dismiss that as an older man, but I am not sure it would be wise.

It is very hard - especially for the younger generations now that their intrinsic worth seems to be linked to what phone they have, or what console they have. They can be outcast if they have a rubbish Android, rather than the new iPhone.

I think it leads on from this into later life, where people view success and happiness in material possession, of who has the most expensive car, who goes on holidays the most, who spends the most on holidays, who has all the latest gadgets, etc.

It is quite sad how the world has gone to this.

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14 minutes ago, Click said:

It is very hard - especially for the younger generations now that their intrinsic worth seems to be linked to what phone they have, or what console they have. They can be outcast if they have a rubbish Android, rather than the new iPhone.

I think it leads on from this into later life, where people view success and happiness in material possession, of who has the most expensive car, who goes on holidays the most, who spends the most on holidays, who has all the latest gadgets, etc.

It is quite sad how the world has gone to this.

For reasons too complex and personal to go into, i threw cards about willy nilly about 15-20 years ago accruing enormous amounts of debt.

I spent 9k on a cruise to the Caribbean with upgraded flights and cabins etc.

Last year, i spent €300 on 8 nights in a cheap shed in the loire valley. I used my tesco points for free tunnel crossings.

Mates had the shed next to us. It was one of the best hols i have had in france.

Expense never has guaranteed enjoyment and that was the perfect example.

I have booked again this year. I've paid more this year.... €424 for ten nights in a shed whilst i scrat around vinyards and hidden away restos taking in plait du jours for €12 a go. 

Pal just returned from an aqua class cabin Singapore to hong kong cruise... premium economy flights over Christmas.... £11,250. 

Time was, i would have jumped at joining them. These days I'm in a much more contented place where i can be utterly consumed in a hol that ticks all my boxes for next to nowt.

I dont chase new tech or designer sheeite....(though getting designer sheeite in my size is a hoot).

Its nice having a few bob. But debt is a killer and its pizz easy to get there.

I got mine sorted. It took six years. Three months after I'd finally settled the companies who were hounding me and making my life a soddin misery, were then offering me thousands of credit again. Its immoral.

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1 hour ago, Robin Evans said:

For reasons too complex and personal to go into, i threw cards about willy nilly about 15-20 years ago accruing enormous amounts of debt.

I spent 9k on a cruise to the Caribbean with upgraded flights and cabins etc.

Last year, i spent €300 on 8 nights in a cheap shed in the loire valley. I used my tesco points for free tunnel crossings.

Mates had the shed next to us. It was one of the best hols i have had in france.

Expense never has guaranteed enjoyment and that was the perfect example.

I have booked again this year. I've paid more this year.... €424 for ten nights in a shed whilst i scrat around vinyards and hidden away restos taking in plait du jours for €12 a go. 

Pal just returned from an aqua class cabin Singapore to hong kong cruise... premium economy flights over Christmas.... £11,250. 

Time was, i would have jumped at joining them. These days I'm in a much more contented place where i can be utterly consumed in a hol that ticks all my boxes for next to nowt.

I dont chase new tech or designer sheeite....(though getting designer sheeite in my size is a hoot).

Its nice having a few bob. But debt is a killer and its pizz easy to get there.

I got mine sorted. It took six years. Three months after I'd finally settled the companies who were hounding me and making my life a soddin misery, were then offering me thousands of credit again. Its immoral.

I think this is the key point - Just because something is more expensive, does not mean that it will be "funner" or you will enjoy it more. 

My family enjoy going on Canal boat holidays - We used to rent the BBC Club's boat every year for about 15 years until the parents bought one for their retirement holidays.

It isn't cheap - especially if you are renting from one of those narrow boat companies around, but you see lots of friends going on holidays on them.

We also had to change our habits after getting a dog, finding holiday friendly destinations for the dog is easy if you have a canal boat - Not so easy to go abroad.

Money doesn't = enjoyment!

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15 hours ago, Click said:

It is very hard - especially for the younger generations now that their intrinsic worth seems to be linked to what phone they have, or what console they have. They can be outcast if they have a rubbish Android, rather than the new iPhone.

I think it leads on from this into later life, where people view success and happiness in material possession, of who has the most expensive car, who goes on holidays the most, who spends the most on holidays, who has all the latest gadgets, etc.

It is quite sad how the world has gone to this.

I am not sure it is new.

Edited by Bob8
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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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The country needs 250,000 houses to be built per annum. It's been building 100, 000 or so. House prices are high, building societies are asking for 10% deposits. Where is an early twenties couple going to get £20,000 cash deposit for a house in an average area of the country?

You can buy really cheap houses in the rustbelt, but generally in not-pleasant locations and there are fewer high-paying jobs in the private sector. In Bradford, a former bed shop has been granted planning permission for conversion into 10 (I think)  bedsitters.

Young people are getting penalised for not affording a mortgage by paying extortionate rents. If they have a mortgaage it takes too much out of their weekly nett income.

If we could resolve the housing crisis, we'd go a long way to resolving the debt crisis.


Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police

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