The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[wiganermike]

17 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

If and it is a very big if, Toronto are going to replaced by a Championship club through on-field performance, then preperation time to commence hostilities will be required and no doubt squad strengthening for all the competing clubs would be considered. If they are going to be replaced by selection then that could alienate a lot of fans.

Why and how long would you wait for a decision David?

As I have posted previously it would be possible IMO to take a month to make the decision and announce it. That would take us to around August 23rd. The proposed Autumn competition won't begin until October so it would be a further 5 weeks before the first blows would be struck in that competition. That gives time for a considered decision to be made without the initial anger causing a knee-jerk reaction and plenty of time for players to train before resuming if they were to compete on-field for the 12th SL spot. If a selection process was chosen instead then there would be 3 months (from August 23rd) in which bids could be put together, submitted, assessed and a decision on the successful applicant made by the time that the SL season ends, which is when a team winning promotion on the field would have known they were going up anyway.

I understand that you're frustrated, I would be in your situation but it has only been 4 days since Argyle made his pitch to SL and the RFL and that according to reports wasn't well received. Have patience.

[Loup]

3 hours ago, haskey said:

How can we want or expect TWP to participate in 2021 without any players.? Toi me it is a non-starter

With Championship and L1 shut down for the rest of the season, players don't have many places to go. If TWP continues, the club will have players.

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Harry you are a deadset whinger.

Have you got a stammering impediment?

 if you make accusations back them up or shut up

[Loup]

3 hours ago, DimmestStar said:

Actually 75% do not want Toronto in Super League in 2021.

Did you ask the Wolfpack fans?

[Gerrumonside ref]

4 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Harry you are a deadset whinger.

I think he sees an opportunity for Leigh here.

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

As I have posted previously it would be possible IMO to take a month to make the decision and announce it. That would take us to around August 23rd. The proposed Autumn competition won't begin until October so it would be a further 5 weeks before the first blows would be struck in that competition. That gives time for a considered decision to be made without the initial anger causing a knee-jerk reaction and plenty of time for players to train before resuming if they were to compete on-field for the 12th SL spot. If a selection process was chosen instead then there would be 3 months (from August 23rd) in which bids could be put together, submitted, assessed and a decision on the successful applicant made by the time that the SL season ends, which is when a team winning promotion on the field would have known they were going up anyway.

I understand that your frustrated, I would be in your situation but it has only been 4 days since Argyle made his pitch to SL and the RFL and that according to reports wasn't well received. Have patience.

No format for lets call it a qualification competition if we are to have one as not yet been devised, it could take longer than 8 weeks to complete, and do you know for certain that those teams who would compete would be waiting for the gates to reopen,  they could decide to play a portion of them behind doors if they wished to.

[The Rocket]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Have you got a stammering impediment?

 if you make accusations back them up or shut up

You heard me .

[Harry Stottle]

4 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I think he sees an opportunity for Leigh here.

I see an opportunity for as many clubs as want to take part.

[Gerrumonside ref]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

I see an opportunity for as many clubs as want to take part.

Yes, I stand corrected and agree with much of what you’ve said so far on this thread.

[Kayakman]

31 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

My argument has always been that until Toronto are a proven finished article I don't see the point of allowing other clubs from the same part of the world into the system to make the same mistakes, I said which you will remember simply because you commented about it was my proposed learning and assesment period to evalute Toronto's good and not so good expierences of 7years.

Life must go on in Rugby League circles, it is now a very simple YES Mr Argyle we agree to your demands, or NO we don't, he has already said what course of action he will take whatever the outcome, wouldn't you like to know what next year brings for your club? 

Ping pong ball my ariss.

You may frame it that way but it is incorrect....there has to be a process and there is lots of room between either a straight 'Yes' or 'No'-as are most things in life...I've mentioned this to you before Harry-we call its called 'flexibility'.

Nice backhand smash Harry but the ping pong ball is back on your side....watch your step there...we don't want you to trip and lose the point!

[wiganermike]

6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

No format for lets call it a qualification competition if we are to have one as not yet been devised, it could take longer than 8 weeks to complete, and do you know for certain that those teams who would compete would be waiting for the gates to reopen,  they could decide to play a portion of them behind doors if they wished to.

You are right about that, I am just going on the basis that we do have a proposed competition pencilled in for an October start and so using that as the basis seems most likely. If a decision was announced in less than a month from last week's meeting that a qualifying competition was to happen I'm sure some clubs would be eager to get going ASAP, but there are the issues of a lack of training causing greater injury risk and that ultimately only one club would gain access to the SL money so you would want to minimise losses for the others. Those also need to be considered.

[Kayakman]

27 minutes ago, Dave T said:

As per my reply to Derwent, we should be making this decision urgently, probably in the next 7 to 14 days, but I'm not going to accuse them of dragging their feet so far. 

I agree...they need to take some some time, pause and seriously consider all the options available to them.  Then they need to put aside any personal discriminations and nativism they clearly have...once that has happened they need to choose the best option for the sport, make the necessary changes for the long term gain and get on with it one way or another.   We all know what should happen for the good of the sport.

It will all work out in the end...we are all this Covid thing together.

[Eddie]

I’m still astounded by the number of people who think Toronto have failed through fault of their own. I doubt there’s a single other SL club who’d have been able to carry on with no TV money and no home games. 

[Spidey]

17 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Elsewhere in LE, Gary Hetherington calls for an appointed group of SL & RFL officials - not the clubs - to choose the 12th club for 2021 based on “finance, stadium, crowd and commercial potential and player production” with the one deemed to be of most value given an equal distribution of central funding.

My mini licencing analysis based on the above would have clubs as follows, with probably Toulouse getting the nod (if TWP not available):

	Finance	Commerce	Stadium	Crowd	Players	Score
Toulouse	5	5	3	3	3	19
Widnes	3	3	5	3	5	19
Leigh	5	3	5	3	1	17
London	3	5	1	3	5	17
Bradford	3	3	1	3	5	15
Featherstone	3	3	1	3	1	11

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

My mini licencing analysis based on the above would have clubs as follows, with probably Toulouse getting the nod (if TWP not available):

	Finance	Commerce	Stadium	Crowd	Players	Score
Toulouse	5	5	3	3	3	19
Widnes	3	3	5	3	5	19
Leigh	5	3	5	3	1	17
London	3	5	1	3	5	17
Bradford	3	3	1	3	5	15
Featherstone	3	3	1	3	1	11

Thanks for the visualisation mate, have you taken into account Toulouse playing at Ernest Wallon?

[Man of Kent]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

My mini licencing analysis based on the above would have clubs as follows, with probably Toulouse getting the nod (if TWP not available):

	Finance	Commerce	Stadium	Crowd	Players	Score
Toulouse	5	5	3	3	3	19
Widnes	3	3	5	3	5	19
Leigh	5	3	5	3	1	17
London	3	5	1	3	5	17
Bradford	3	3	1	3	5	15
Featherstone	3	3	1	3	1	11

Very nice.

Further to Tommy's post about the stadium (surely a 5-star venue as far as Northern Hemisphere rugby league goes), Widnes (and the other English clubs) wouldn't be able to bring in an additional paying TV contract, so I suggest that would tip the balance in favour of Toulouse.

[Oldbear]

Still think SL will contract to 10, fewer snouts in the trough means more food for everyone. Just a question of who goes with TWP? Personally I think this is a lousy idea but the SL clubs will go self interest over the actual good of the game.

[GUBRATS]

9 minutes ago, Spidey said:

My mini licencing analysis based on the above would have clubs as follows, with probably Toulouse getting the nod (if TWP not available):

	Finance	Commerce	Stadium	Crowd	Players	Score
Toulouse	5	5	3	3	3	19
Widnes	3	3	5	3	5	19
Leigh	5	3	5	3	1	17
London	3	5	1	3	5	17
Bradford	3	3	1	3	5	15
Featherstone	3	3	1	3	1	11

Spidey , I assume by players , you mean academy ? , Surely not actual 1 st team squad

[Eddie]

10 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Very nice.

Further to Tommy's post about the stadium (surely a 5-star venue as far as Northern Hemisphere rugby league goes), Widnes (and the other English clubs) wouldn't be able to bring in an additional paying TV contract, so I suggest that would tip the balance in favour of Toulouse.

What makes you think Toulouse will get a tv contract, their average attendance is about 2,000, not that appealing to a broadcaster. 
 

Widnes are ex-world champions and are much better supported, strange that you’re so dismissive of them. 

[Man of Kent]

6 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

Still think SL will contract to 10, fewer snouts in the trough means more food for everyone. Just a question of who goes with TWP? Personally I think this is a lousy idea but the SL clubs will go self interest over the actual good of the game.

Only way that will happen is if another club goes pop. More likely they'll stick with 11 but I don't believe that will happen either. As Hetherington says, this is an opportunity. With Toulouse in, and a French game at home every week, a French TV deal is a much easier sell.

[Eddie]

17 minutes ago, Spidey said:

My mini licencing analysis based on the above would have clubs as follows, with probably Toulouse getting the nod (if TWP not available):

	Finance	Commerce	Stadium	Crowd	Players	Score
Toulouse	5	5	3	3	3	19
Widnes	3	3	5	3	5	19
Leigh	5	3	5	3	1	17
London	3	5	1	3	5	17
Bradford	3	3	1	3	5	15
Featherstone	3	3	1	3	1	11

By crowd do you mean attendances? They’re not all 3s. 

[Big Picture]

5 hours ago, wiganermike said:

The poll is currently running on the TRL homepage so it may not be LE readers alone. The demographic spread is likely the same as that for RL supporters in general.

I see that the runaway leader there is Exclude them from all RFL competitions with 39% of the votes.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Big Picture said:

I see that the runaway leader there is Exclude them from all RFL competitions with 39% of the votes.

Even that would still indicate 61% support keeping them in some fashion

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

24 minutes ago, Spidey said:

My mini licencing analysis based on the above would have clubs as follows, with probably Toulouse getting the nod (if TWP not available):

	Finance	Commerce	Stadium	Crowd	Players	Score
Toulouse	5	5	3	3	3	19
Widnes	3	3	5	3	5	19
Leigh	5	3	5	3	1	17
London	3	5	1	3	5	17
Bradford	3	3	1	3	5	15
Featherstone	3	3	1	3	1	11

Some of those scores are, quite frankly, hilarious. 

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

Thanks for taking the trouble to do this, Spidey.

I agree with Tommygilf that Toulouse's stadium merits more than 3.  Likewise, I take Gubrats' point that players presumably does (or ought to) mean more than just first team.  On that point, worth remembering that Toulouse will have both reserve and U-19 sides playing competitive league games in 2021.

I think that Eddie is right that not all the crowd's would be 3's.  Do not Leigh, for instance, get on average more than some of the others?

Thanks again for doing this, Spidey, and hence stimulating this discussion; much appreciated!