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Lowdesert

Hull FC under severe threat

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3 hours ago, dboy said:

Clearly not, otherwise the banks would have funded them.

Obvs.

Don’t know the ins and outs of Hulls Application but I can confirm through me and a few others that the banks are being utter prats as usual with these loans

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1 hour ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

It's a sad day in our sport when a club worries about going under and some "fans" of the game feel the need to turn the knife.

Sad day.

  I don't think anyone is turning the knife.Nor do I remember too much weeping and wailing when Hull FC subsumed another rugby league club and cared little for their supporters,and sponsors.

  Here is an 'elite' club which has enjoyed the success and wealth following winning and other appearances at Wembley looking to have financial difficulties only a month after games started to be postponed.

   If ever we return to cold,snowy winters it is rather worrying.

  This is an elite club with a large fanbase blaming others even before lower league soccer clubs or clubs in the other code.

  Mr Pearson doesn't seem to be Mr Popular outside of the fanbase of Hull FC.

    That isn't turning the knife.

   Hull KR haven't gone running to the press about any financial difficulties despite their lack of Wembley success in recent years,and with a smaller fanbase.

    Perhaps they need to merge the Hull clubs...

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     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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With costs excl wages frozen no self respecting SL club owner should have any problems dealing with 3/6 months of cash issues, if they have they shouldn't be in SL

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35 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

With costs excl wages frozen no self respecting SL club owner should have any problems dealing with 3/6 months of cash issues, if they have they shouldn't be in SL

3 months maybe , 6 will be pushing everybody 

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3 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

It's a sad day in our sport when a club worries about going under and some "fans" of the game feel the need to turn the knife.

Sad day.

Had this been Hull KR in that position are you telling us the silence from the other side of the city would have been deafening ?

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My wife complains I selfishly stop her fulfilling her true ambition -

she really wants to be a rich widow

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2 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

With costs excl wages frozen no self respecting SL club owner should have any problems dealing with 3/6 months of cash issues, if they have they shouldn't be in SL

Nah, this is rubbish, not many businesses are sitting on six months of non-wage cash. You stop selling but your creditors still need paying (in theory), wages even in RL clubs are only at most 50% of outgoings, especially those with capital loans to pay (e.g. I wouldn't fancy being in Leeds' shoes right now).

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Pearson doesn't come out of this great, but I do understand what he's saying here. The SME loans system have been criticised for a lack of accessibility.

In the context of things, I'd prefer if we went for a guarantee all loans now and deal with failing businesses later. Jobs and livelihoods are on the line.

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4 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

It's a sad day in our sport when a club worries about going under and some "fans" of the game feel the need to turn the knife.

Sad day.

Like many on here have done about clubs like Oldham, Rochdale and Swinton ... but at the moment they aren't Super League clubs so not many bother about them.

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5 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

It's a sad day in our sport when a club worries about going under and some "fans" of the game feel the need to turn the knife.

Sad day.

Not like today’s RL fans ?

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10 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

The "rules" are that, unless someone else underwrites the debt, they won't lend you money that they aren't certain of getting back.

What are the rules for these grants Johnny.  Do they specifically ask for that or do they requires assets/shares etc that they can use to recover.  I’m presuming you’re in the know.

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7 hours ago, BJW said:

Had this been Hull KR in that position are you telling us the silence from the other side of the city would have been deafening ?

No, that’s a bit silly mate.  Rivalry exists, varying from friendly to extreme, but most fans want HKR in the league for the derbies and financials from those crowds alone.

Its not in either party’s interests.

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9 hours ago, M j M said:

Nah, this is rubbish, not many businesses are sitting on six months of non-wage cash. You stop selling but your creditors still need paying (in theory), wages even in RL clubs are only at most 50% of outgoings, especially those with capital loans to pay (e.g. I wouldn't fancy being in Leeds' shoes right now).

Leeds MDC are guarantors so it's the citizens of Leeds who will lose out most; a couple of rented stands will be really useful to them!

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17 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Leeds MDC are guarantors so it's the citizens of Leeds who will lose out most; a couple of rented stands will be really useful to them!

Leeds have an underlying viable business so I doubt the council wil be exposed in the long run but at the moment they will be facing a big crunch with both the RL business and the supporting businesses they built the stadium for all effectively closed.

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3 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

What are the rules for these grants Johnny.  Do they specifically ask for that or do they requires assets/shares etc that they can use to recover.  I’m presuming you’re in the know.

They're not Grants, they are Loans (sorry I know it's pedantic but an important distiction) - one good thing is they haven't asked me for a personal guarantee but then I was only asking for £30k, I don't know if they want guarantees fr bigger loans.

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5 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

They're not Grants, they are Loans (sorry I know it's pedantic but an important distiction) - one good thing is they haven't asked me for a personal guarantee but then I was only asking for £30k, I don't know if they want guarantees fr bigger loans.

Without asking for too much detail and in part answer to low desert , does your business have genuine assets ? , A RL club doesn't , shares in a club are worthless , they are essentially a committment to put money in , not get it out 

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10 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Without asking for too much detail and in part answer to low desert , does your business have genuine assets ? , A RL club doesn't , shares in a club are worthless , they are essentially a committment to put money in , not get it out 

I've got some Apple Macs but that's it.

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1 minute ago, Chrispmartha said:

I've got some Apple Macs but that's it.

Then you've done well , must be your high profit margins ?

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12 hours ago, M j M said:

Nah, this is rubbish, not many businesses are sitting on six months of non-wage cash. You stop selling but your creditors still need paying (in theory), wages even in RL clubs are only at most 50% of outgoings, especially those with capital loans to pay (e.g. I wouldn't fancy being in Leeds' shoes right now).

I will assume Sky are still paying and Hull have the vast majority of admission and sponsorship income up front , as do most SL clubs. Variable match day income will be lucky to cover operating costs for that day - then add in the furloughed staff, spend on training and nutrition, medics etc

 

I do understand Leigh and TO have been put on stand by should any SL fail btw

Edited by sweaty craiq

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16 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

It's a sad day in our sport when a club worries about going under and some "fans" of the game feel the need to turn the knife.

Sad day.

I don't know enough about how the scheme operates to know whether Adam Pearson's criticisms are valid or not.

What I do know is that most of the people using his comments to have a go at him will share my lack of understanding.

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Old Faithful we never lose at Wembley

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7 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

No, that’s a bit silly mate.  Rivalry exists, varying from friendly to extreme, but most fans want HKR in the league for the derbies and financials from those crowds alone.

Its not in either party’s interests.

Not at all. Whilst nobody likes the idea of a club folding, to suggest had positions been reversed there would have been a discreet silence from west of the river is naive at best.

Think the criticism is aimed at Adam Pearson rather than Hull FC as any loan application, even in these dark times, must be open to due diligence so to be rejected apparently 5 times is interesting.


My wife complains I selfishly stop her fulfilling her true ambition -

she really wants to be a rich widow

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21 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

I dont like Pearson, he is always quick to blame someone else and often indulging in weird conspiratorial ramblings when doing so. 

However, the governments loan scheme looks so ill thought out and unsuccessful you have to wonder if it was deliberate.

Id also say i doubt Hull are the only ones in this position. Which is why the game should be desperately looking at how it can bring more money in 

We have to accept that the game lacks financial backbone and IMO always will, taking into account falling attendances, lavish salary payments and the influx of Aussie journeymen. Bring back part time rugby. The end result cannot be any worse.

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29 minutes ago, saddleworth said:

We have to accept that the game lacks financial backbone and IMO always will, taking into account falling attendances, lavish salary payments and the influx of Aussie journeymen. Bring back part time rugby. The end result cannot be any worse.

I do often think things were better in the 60s but then I remember I'm typing on a laptop pc in my garden instantly to a group of people from different parts of the globe over something as relatively trivial as sport and realise they probably weren't...

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If Hull or any other club haven't got enough money to survive then they do what everyone else does - they cut back with their financial outgoings.  If that then means not being able to but the best players then so be it. Many lower league clubs have been in that position for years.

Some of the Super League clubs should just think themselves lucky they have a "marketable name".

Edited by RL does what Sky says
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14 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

If Hull or any other club haven't got enough money to survive then they do what everyone else does - they cut back with their financial outgoings.  If that then means not being able to but the best players then so be it. Many lower league clubs have been in that position for years.

Some of the Super League clubs should just think themselves lucky they have a "marketable name".

I think that's a fair enough assessment, I don't disagree. I'd recommend you have a listen to the most recent 5Live podcast with Dave Woods and the former CEO of Melbourne Storm and Harlequins RU, he makes the point that Rugby League, and Super League in particular, don't have much to cut due to starting from such a low base. That's a potential positive as it means the game is less expensive to run, but it has the concurrent effect that in a time where all budgets are shrinking, RL doesn't have the room to cut too far before it reaches a critical level. What the implications of that are is as yet undecided. 

I don't think a marketable name is the main thing, arguably that only fits St Helens and Warrington maybe? The rest are where they are because their in markets that can sustain them both in terms of fans and sponsors - generally that's larger places. 

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