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Super League Promotion (Merged Threads)


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3 minutes ago, Phil said:

From the fourth largest city in North America to a satellite town of Wigan.

Small towns, small ambitions, small chance of expansion.

Great chance of remaining small, parochial and northern. 

What kind of stupid do you have to be to not understand Toronto FAILED!!! BUST!! LIQUIDISED!! INSOLVENT!! NO PAY NO PLAY! BROKEN! GONE! S**t boom or bust business plan. Toronto put at risk our TV deal!

Expansion will work in NA as soon as they have a TV deal and a few wealthy people prepared to chuck money in and create their own league. Same in France.'

The game IS small, parochial and northern and yet still has some of the most pioneering community work in all of the UK.

Leigh have been chucked in as a capable all rounder to help save the TV deal not to attract Saudi investment and thye have been chucled in because TORONTO FAILED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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"We've got a bit of a PR issue lads, in that we're seen as a small-town sport with no ambition and an actual hostility towards anyone who might actually want to attract new fans to the game." "Wh

From the fourth largest city in North America to a satellite town of Wigan. Small towns, small ambitions, small chance of expansion. Great chance of remaining small, parochial and northern. 

Congratulations to Leigh Centurions. If every club in the system had to go through this process then they would be one of the top 12 candidates so full credit to them. I hope they give it a great crac

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18 minutes ago, phiggins said:

Presumably, you know which big brands the other clubs would bring in then? 

Of course, London had years to bring in the big brands and help with the sport's national profile. So plenty of pointers there.

We've been swimming in sponsorship since bringing in a french club, so bring another in.

I mean, you've read all six bids haven't you? Otherwise you're just talking pompous tosh, and that can't be true...

So the answer is NO.

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38 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

How many years has Rugby League been played in Salford and what are there crowds like?

That's irrelevant. One of the big arguments used for London is around potential and new audiences, expanding the footprint of the sport etc. My question is, how long do you give London Broncos before you expect some return on that in terms of crowds or sponsorship? After 20 years in SL it's not unreasonable to expect the third largest city in Europe to produce crowds above a couple of thousand.

For what it's worth London were my second choice behind Toulouse. I was not happy Toronto got booted out. I am an expansionist but just because a team is seen as an expansion project it doesn't put them above criticism, especially when they have consistently failed to deliver any return on the potential they bang on about. I'm getting a bit bored of people who purport to be all about promoting the sport doing nothing but talking it down in the form of digs at other clubs.

Leigh isn't the exciting choice. It's not a sexy choice. But it is the safe option and they do look best equipped to compete on the pitch in 2021. Good luck to them.

Also worth noting unless any of the clubs makes their bids public, we don't know how they stacked up beyond the face value of location, ground and squad.

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2 minutes ago, Magic XIII said:

Nope, not as of 1 minute ago

It's there now. I'm going to guess you're on bbc.com.

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51 minutes ago, Colin James said:

London had 20 years in SL and get smaller crowds than dying pit villages. They had a fair shot. 

I am not sure I understand this. Leigh are in the Super League as a result of an “independent panel” . London got there on the last occasion on the pitch. As did Toronto.

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Phew! Finally caught up on this thread having come to the party two hours late!

Overwhelming feeling is relief that it wasn't my club (Bradford). We simply weren't ready. I'm sure we had to apply, but I'm glad we didn't get chosen.

Leigh are the common sense choice. Total lack of any ambition in this choice, but a solid application from a good club, with funding, ground and playing strength. Time you started an Academy though 😉 I'm sure they'll add to their squad, and they clearly need to. In fact, I would imagine that Degsy will have people lined up.

Best of luck to Leigh. Hope you stay up and send one of the existing cartel down into the Champ for 2022.

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38 minutes ago, EagleEyePie said:

The process has ended up choosing the club that looks the best placed to compete in Super League next year given the short notice and the probably the best placed to cope with any covid-related issues as Derek Beaumont has presumably said he'll foot the bill. They should also boost the attendances of local teams with away followings and benefit from good away followings themselves in what is a difficult time for clubs financially. It's a sensible decision, if that's all that the criteria was.

The problem is they built it up to be more than that. The report into Toronto certainly didn't help things when they questioned the commercial value of a club in Toronto and called it a crowded market. Then they added into the criteria that the new club would have to increase the commercial value of Super League. That sets lofty ambitions that ultimately Leigh don't really fulfil. After all, when it comes to a crowded market they've basically added a team competing for largely the same local fan base as Wigan (and potentially Warrington and Salford too in some areas).

Leigh don't increase the commercial value of Super League. Super League wasn't a commercial juggernaut when Leigh were previously in the competition. They might bring slightly more away fans to games on the western side of the M62 though. Ultimately that's what was more appealing.

This is a short term decision but the process made it come across as something much more than that. So now we've had Toronto kicked out for being not commercially valuable and then made a song and dance about who the new club would be, provided several big city options with Bradford, London, Toulouse and York and then announced that Leigh is the way forward. It comes across to those within the game as being insular, and probably to those from the outside looking in as a bit embarrassing.

That's all fair enough. The only other thing I would say is that I don't think any single club will make much of an impact on Super League's commercial value alone. Not Leigh, not London, not Toronto. 

Publishing criteria was well intentioned, but it just created a circus like when the sport attempted franchising. What Leigh will bring is a squad that is already assembled that hopefully will not be whipping boys in the league. If Leigh could stay in Super League for any length of time, it offers a pathway into the game for a lot of players in the area that would otherwise pack in the idea of playing professional rugby league whilst in their teens. Fanbase wise, there'll be 5,000+ home fans at each game. 

I'm not sure who else ticks all of those boxes. Potentially Toulouse, but I don't know enough about their gates or rugby in the area to comment. Bradford have the fans and the academy, but maybe not the squad. London have the academy, maybe the squad, but not the fans. Don't know what Fev would expect on the gate in Super League.

York probably have potential to grow in all three areas, and would've been a decent bet for a three year license, unfortunately that's not what the panel were deciding on.

Will leave it at that for now. Find myself dragged into petty squabbles on this forum, which do my blood pressure no favours. Am just looking forward to being able to watch a game again. 

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5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It's there now. I'm going to guess you're on bbc.com.

It's there. I posted the link almost as soon as the announcement was made. Lord Caine's statement in there in full. 

Four legs good - two legs bad

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2 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

I don't get the replies of Leigh would be the most competitive. Toulouse have been the better team for 3 years.

In which case they have one season to consolidate and gain promotion. 

Four legs good - two legs bad

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12 minutes ago, Colin James said:

That's irrelevant. One of the big arguments used for London is around potential and new audiences, expanding the footprint of the sport etc. My question is, how long do you give London Broncos before you expect some return on that in terms of crowds or sponsorship? After 20 years in SL it's not unreasonable to expect the third largest city in Europe to produce crowds above a couple of thousand.

For what it's worth London were my second choice behind Toulouse. I was not happy Toronto got booted out. I am an expansionist but just because a team is seen as an expansion project it doesn't put them above criticism, especially when they have consistently failed to deliver any return on the potential they bang on about. I'm getting a bit bored of people who purport to be all about promoting the sport doing nothing but talking it down in the form of digs at other clubs.

Leigh isn't the exciting choice. It's not a sexy choice. But it is the safe option and they do look best equipped to compete on the pitch in 2021. Good luck to them.

Also worth noting unless any of the clubs makes their bids public, we don't know how they stacked up beyond the face value of location, ground and squad.

It isn't irrelevant though and the point you ignore

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4 minutes ago, westlondonfan said:

I am not sure I understand this. Leigh are in the Super League as a result of an “independent panel” . London got there on the last occasion on the pitch. As did Toronto.

My point being, the biggest argument for London seems to be 'they have huge potential for bringing new fans and sponsors to the sport'. Is 20 seasons in SL not a big enough sample to show that this potential is massively overstated?

 

 

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44 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Have the pubs opened early?

Unlike Leigh and their small crowds, Toronto's crowds were growing year on year and they had around 10,000 for the million pound game.  Safe to assume then that they would average over 10,000 in Super league if the stadium allowed. So no, you don't need to be drunk to think that.

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6 minutes ago, binosh said:

What kind of stupid do you have to be to not understand Toronto FAILED!!! BUST!! LIQUIDISED!! INSOLVENT!! 

Toronto might have failed but they have not gone into bankruptcy or have been liquidated. I believe they are still an ‘active’ company and non of their creditors have attempted to take the legal route to collect what is owed to them. 

It is terrible that Argyle has refused to put any further money into the club but let’s not forget he put about $20 million of his own money into the game without taking a cent out of the game and a large portion of that money went to the north of England as well as the large amount of press for the sport. Yes it was a failure but id say the sport benefitted by having tried and failed instead of not trying in the first place. 
 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Damien said:

I keep hearing about Leigh having the stadium but is that really the be all and end all? They rent the stadium and its a key difference. I'd hazard a guess that someone like Fev would have far more income steams from their setup than Leigh.

They would. Happy its leigh

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