Jump to content

Super League Promotion (Merged Threads)


Col81

Recommended Posts

38 minutes ago, EagleEyePie said:

The process has ended up choosing the club that looks the best placed to compete in Super League next year given the short notice and the probably the best placed to cope with any covid-related issues as Derek Beaumont has presumably said he'll foot the bill. They should also boost the attendances of local teams with away followings and benefit from good away followings themselves in what is a difficult time for clubs financially. It's a sensible decision, if that's all that the criteria was.

The problem is they built it up to be more than that. The report into Toronto certainly didn't help things when they questioned the commercial value of a club in Toronto and called it a crowded market. Then they added into the criteria that the new club would have to increase the commercial value of Super League. That sets lofty ambitions that ultimately Leigh don't really fulfil. After all, when it comes to a crowded market they've basically added a team competing for largely the same local fan base as Wigan (and potentially Warrington and Salford too in some areas).

Leigh don't increase the commercial value of Super League. Super League wasn't a commercial juggernaut when Leigh were previously in the competition. They might bring slightly more away fans to games on the western side of the M62 though. Ultimately that's what was more appealing.

This is a short term decision but the process made it come across as something much more than that. So now we've had Toronto kicked out for being not commercially valuable and then made a song and dance about who the new club would be, provided several big city options with Bradford, London, Toulouse and York and then announced that Leigh is the way forward. It comes across to those within the game as being insular, and probably to those from the outside looking in as a bit embarrassing.

That's all fair enough. The only other thing I would say is that I don't think any single club will make much of an impact on Super League's commercial value alone. Not Leigh, not London, not Toronto. 

Publishing criteria was well intentioned, but it just created a circus like when the sport attempted franchising. What Leigh will bring is a squad that is already assembled that hopefully will not be whipping boys in the league. If Leigh could stay in Super League for any length of time, it offers a pathway into the game for a lot of players in the area that would otherwise pack in the idea of playing professional rugby league whilst in their teens. Fanbase wise, there'll be 5,000+ home fans at each game. 

I'm not sure who else ticks all of those boxes. Potentially Toulouse, but I don't know enough about their gates or rugby in the area to comment. Bradford have the fans and the academy, but maybe not the squad. London have the academy, maybe the squad, but not the fans. Don't know what Fev would expect on the gate in Super League.

York probably have potential to grow in all three areas, and would've been a decent bet for a three year license, unfortunately that's not what the panel were deciding on.

Will leave it at that for now. Find myself dragged into petty squabbles on this forum, which do my blood pressure no favours. Am just looking forward to being able to watch a game again. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Replies 2.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply
12 minutes ago, Colin James said:

That's irrelevant. One of the big arguments used for London is around potential and new audiences, expanding the footprint of the sport etc. My question is, how long do you give London Broncos before you expect some return on that in terms of crowds or sponsorship? After 20 years in SL it's not unreasonable to expect the third largest city in Europe to produce crowds above a couple of thousand.

For what it's worth London were my second choice behind Toulouse. I was not happy Toronto got booted out. I am an expansionist but just because a team is seen as an expansion project it doesn't put them above criticism, especially when they have consistently failed to deliver any return on the potential they bang on about. I'm getting a bit bored of people who purport to be all about promoting the sport doing nothing but talking it down in the form of digs at other clubs.

Leigh isn't the exciting choice. It's not a sexy choice. But it is the safe option and they do look best equipped to compete on the pitch in 2021. Good luck to them.

Also worth noting unless any of the clubs makes their bids public, we don't know how they stacked up beyond the face value of location, ground and squad.

It isn't irrelevant though and the point you ignore

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, westlondonfan said:

I am not sure I understand this. Leigh are in the Super League as a result of an “independent panel” . London got there on the last occasion on the pitch. As did Toronto.

My point being, the biggest argument for London seems to be 'they have huge potential for bringing new fans and sponsors to the sport'. Is 20 seasons in SL not a big enough sample to show that this potential is massively overstated?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Have the pubs opened early?

Unlike Leigh and their small crowds, Toronto's crowds were growing year on year and they had around 10,000 for the million pound game.  Safe to assume then that they would average over 10,000 in Super league if the stadium allowed. So no, you don't need to be drunk to think that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, binosh said:

What kind of stupid do you have to be to not understand Toronto FAILED!!! BUST!! LIQUIDISED!! INSOLVENT!! 

Toronto might have failed but they have not gone into bankruptcy or have been liquidated. I believe they are still an ‘active’ company and non of their creditors have attempted to take the legal route to collect what is owed to them. 

It is terrible that Argyle has refused to put any further money into the club but let’s not forget he put about $20 million of his own money into the game without taking a cent out of the game and a large portion of that money went to the north of England as well as the large amount of press for the sport. Yes it was a failure but id say the sport benefitted by having tried and failed instead of not trying in the first place. 
 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Damien said:

I keep hearing about Leigh having the stadium but is that really the be all and end all? They rent the stadium and its a key difference. I'd hazard a guess that someone like Fev would have far more income steams from their setup than Leigh.

They would. Happy its leigh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Hello said:

Unlike Leigh and their small crowds, Toronto's crowds were growing year on year and they had around 10,000 for the million pound game.  Safe to assume then that they would average over 10,000 in Super league if the stadium allowed. So no, you don't need to be drunk to think that.

It's not safe to assume any such thing. Having "around 10,000" for one game isn't remotely the same - especially given how they actually played once they got into Super League.

Toronto could have been a big club. It was exciting for the game that they existed. They were hamstrung by the authorities here in many ways. But please don't make stuff up.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, RobertAM said:

elstones master plan to grow the game taking shape now. Rest of the world buying ordnance survey maps to plot the global footprint of RL

So lets get this right. Under Elstones master plan to grow the game and bring in extra money into the game he sacrifices a team that could have given the game a foothold in the most lucrative sports market in the world for a team in that's a suburb of Wigan. That is some master plan Elstone. Don't forget your coat on the way out and shut the door

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, POR said:

 

It makes me laugh all this nonsense about touiouse covid  travel restrictions and SL remind me is the championship a covid free zone  

No, but it is easier and less of a problem to run the Championship one club short or even be cancelled altogether than it is do that with SL. If Toulouse were forced to pull out of the Championship nobody outside of the game would even notice, where as if they had to withdraw from SL then we would be back to square one.

I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

So lets get this right. Under Elstones master plan to grow the game and bring in extra money into the game he sacrifices a team that could have given the game a foothold in the most lucrative sports market in the world for a team in that's a suburb of Wigan. That is some master plan Elstone. Don't forget your coat on the way out and shut the door

How are Toronto doing by the way?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

So lets get this right. Under Elstones master plan to grow the game and bring in extra money into the game he sacrifices a team that could have given the game a foothold in the most lucrative sports market in the world for a team in that's a suburb of Wigan. That is some master plan Elstone. Don't forget your coat on the way out and shut the door

We could have learnt from the past and done our due diligence as a sport and framing of the future instead of prematurely going weak at the knees for any slightly exotic or distant name where someone has put a pin in a map. Unfortunately, we never did and we’re where we are now. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

So lets get this right. Under Elstones master plan to grow the game and bring in extra money into the game he sacrifices a team that could have given the game a foothold in the most lucrative sports market in the world for a team in that's a suburb of Wigan. That is some master plan Elstone. Don't forget your coat on the way out and shut the door

Canada is not the USA. Playing in Toronto does not get you a foothold into the most lucrative sports market in the world.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Yes. You've just confirmed my point. There's a reason rugby league isn't seen as a truly national sport by some and that's because it's not.

Most NRL teams are in Sydney.  Premiership RU teams are weighted around the M5.

If you and people who want to 'Like' you have the investment then go out and transplant the team of your dreams in the town of your choice.  

Start to face facts.  The reason we had this conversation is because TWP went belly up. It was pot luck who goes up.  And assuming Leigh don't go bankrupt they will struggle to stay up, as would any other.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It's not safe to assume any such thing. Having "around 10,000" for one game isn't remotely the same - especially given how they actually played once they got into Super League.

Toronto could have been a big club. It was exciting for the game that they existed. They were hamstrung by the authorities here in many ways. But please don't make stuff up.

Making stuff up, come on. They had several games over 8000 in the championship, some over 9000, and crowds had grown with each season. It's hardly making stuff up to extrapolate and conclude that over 10,000 would be a conservative target for crowds in super league, particularly when you consider the greater number of away fans in comparison to the championship

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, The Future is League said:

It's North American which is the most lucrative sports market in the world

You might as well say we've got a foothold in Germany because we're playing in Hull.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Hello said:

Making stuff up, come on. They had several games over 8000 in the championship, some over 9000, and crowds had grown with each season. It's hardly making stuff up to extrapolate and conclude that over 10,000 would be a conservative target for crowds in super league, particularly when you consider the greater number of away fans in comparison to the championship

It's a wishful projection for an average. Toronto were well supported, genuinely. But until they actually had a season with a 10,000 average you can't say that we've lost a club that had a 10,000 season average.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, gingerjon said:

Canada is not the USA. Playing in Toronto does not get you a foothold into the most lucrative sports market in the world.

The big Toronto clubs play in cross border leagues, it is respect as a sports city in the US and is the 3rd largest city in Canada and the US. So I would say it is part of one of the must lucrative sports market SL in the world. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.