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RLWC a different format?


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a 16 team world cup would include emerging nations, obviously. so why not have a "plate" comp for teams that do not qualify for WC quarter finals? would give the 8 non qualifiers a chance to win something. plate comp could be played as double headers with WC q/f/ s/f & night before final as curtain raiser

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8 minutes ago, thebrewxi said:

Interestingly he has chosen to play for Fiji again now. I assume he would qualify for France, and soon England, and would certainly walk into the latter's onion team. Does that say anything about international League?

He hasn't chosen, he didn't have a choice as he had represented Fiji previously in sevens. If he could have played elsewhere he almost certainly would have and the ARU would have tried to sign him from League instead of him going to France.

Edited by Damien
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1 hour ago, langpark said:

I think you've put a very glamorous spin on that. The reality for 99% of them is, representing their heritage nation is their Plan B, when not chosen by Aus, NZ, England. Notable exception is Taumalolo and a couple of others.

Hell, Radradra, born and raised Fijian, who speaks broken English, even chose Australia over Fiji. 

 

 Some players will feel different about it than others, probably depending a lot of their individual circumstances and whether their family maintains ties with people of their own cultural background and this certainly isn`t uncommon, at least in Oz.

I think there has been a definite change in the mentality surrounding representing your ancestral nation now and given the rise of nationalism around the world and identity politics, it`s hardly surprising we have seen a corresponding desire for some of these blokes to seek out their roots. It may also explain Radradras change of heart.

But you know what, I don`t care and dammit Rugby League deserves a break and this has been a break and anyone who criticises it can go  #5&@ themselves. I`m not having a go at you there.

 

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59 minutes ago, kev p said:

a 16 team world cup would include emerging nations, obviously. so why not have a "plate" comp for teams that do not qualify for WC quarter finals? would give the 8 non qualifiers a chance to win something. plate comp could be played as double headers with WC q/f/ s/f & night before final as curtain raiser

Why would we do that? 

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51 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

 Some players will feel different about it than others, probably depending a lot of their individual circumstances and whether their family maintains ties with people of their own cultural background and this certainly isn`t uncommon, at least in Oz.

I think there has been a definite change in the mentality surrounding representing your ancestral nation now and given the rise of nationalism around the world and identity politics, it`s hardly surprising we have seen a corresponding desire for some of these blokes to seek out their roots. It may also explain Radradras change of heart.

But you know what, I don`t care and dammit Rugby League deserves a break and this has been a break and anyone who criticises it can go  #5&@ themselves. I`m not having a go at you there.

There is no doubt it has greatly benefitted from the grandparent rule. Whether they are "proud" or not of their roots does not really effect the overall bigger picture here.

But I do get a bit tired of hearing blokes who just found out yesterday, that they qualify for X nation, telling us how proud they are etc. I aporeciate the honesty of those that just say that it was their only opportunity to play international RL or in a WC.

Now, there obviously those that are genuinely proud, Kevin Naquiama is one example that comes to mind. But not every player is like him. 

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8 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

What's the Radradra story? Is he playing in our World Cup?

 

No Irish, I think they mean that under union international eligibility rules he HAS to play for Fiji because he has represented them before in 7`s. Unfortunately won`t be playing at our World Cup. That blokes ability to score long range tries, slip one-handed offloads while going to ground was unsurpassed. He`d have to be in the top three wingers in the last 20 years.

The day that we don`t lose players like him to the dark side as I think you call it will be the day when I know we`ve really made it and we have all our stars at our WC.

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17 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

Really? 

RL has largely been dominated by three teams at international level. You now have Tonga and Fiji pushing those teams... Samoa if they got a full strength team on the field would not be far behind either. 

The game is more competitive international than ever before. 

Exactly, the starting point is flawed, making the whole point wrong. 

The last few years has seen the Kiwis, GB and the Aussies lose games to these 'lesser nations'. 

Edited by Dave T
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34 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

No Irish, I think they mean that under union international eligibility rules he HAS to play for Fiji because he has represented them before in 7`s. Unfortunately won`t be playing at our World Cup. That blokes ability to score long range tries, slip one-handed offloads while going to ground was unsurpassed. He`d have to be in the top three wingers in the last 20 years.

The day that we don`t lose players like him to the dark side as I think you call it will be the day when I know we`ve really made it and we have all our stars at our WC.

When I spoke about him playing for Aus instead of Fiji I was talking about his RL days. I have no idea what he's done then as I do not follow union. 

Edited by langpark
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On 13/01/2021 at 13:09, Tommygilf said:

Absolutely 

In a slightly unintended consequence it also opens a can of worms for the likes of Catalonia, California and other separatist movements that consider themselves as independent (or at least some of the people involved in running RL there do) despite coming under the jurisdiction of a national governing body.

That's not to say I don't support those movements etc but I also think RL might be best off following political direction in this area rather than leading it.

But we already have England and the separate Scotland and Wales etc.

Logic as proposed here is that we have NSW and Queensland...

We have now gone the way of 'England' and lost GB (well, 'UK').  So I dont see why you are worrying about Catalonia. 

My country is The United Kingdom of Great Britain.  Since as an e.g. England cricket represent all GB I dont see why we cannot do the same for the UK.

I must also say (re the original post) that talking about an Aboriginal team... and recognising it as basically an inferior and makeweight  outfit is well, looking down a bit.

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2 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

But we already have England and the separate Scotland and Wales etc.

Logic as proposed here is that we have NSW and Queensland...

We have now gone the way of 'England' and lost GB (well, 'UK').  So I dont see why you are worrying about Catalonia. 

My country is The United Kingdom of Great Britain.  Since as an e.g. England cricket represent all GB I dont see why we cannot do the same for the UK.

I must also say (re the original post) that talking about an Aboriginal team... and recognising it as basically an inferior and makeweight  outfit is well, looking down a bit.

Just for info:

England represent England & Wales. The ECB is, in full, the England & Wales Cricket Board. It annoys some that they never acknowledge that.

Scotland have their own side and their own board, Ireland do too and they are now a Test nation.

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52 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

But we already have England and the separate Scotland and Wales etc.

Logic as proposed here is that we have NSW and Queensland...

We have now gone the way of 'England' and lost GB (well, 'UK').  So I dont see why you are worrying about Catalonia. 

My country is The United Kingdom of Great Britain.  Since as an e.g. England cricket represent all GB I dont see why we cannot do the same for the UK.

I must also say (re the original post) that talking about an Aboriginal team... and recognising it as basically an inferior and makeweight  outfit is well, looking down a bit.

What's up with Northern Ireland?

England don't represent all of GB at cricket, Scotland have their own team as do Ireland (on an all-ireland basis). Its not worth getting into the separate existence of virtually every Scottish and English institution since 1701 either. 

My point is rather that RL allowing say Catalonia to compete internationally opens a can of worms with the Spanish authorities and any other country with unhappy regional separatists that also happen to play RL. The UK works as England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland (either alone or as part of an All Ireland team) are happy to compete separately or together. The issue with Catalonia did literally happen in RL too 

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3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

What's up with Northern Ireland?

England don't represent all of GB at cricket, Scotland have their own team as do Ireland (on an all-ireland basis). Its not worth getting into the separate existence of virtually every Scottish and English institution since 1701 either. 

My point is rather that RL allowing say Catalonia to compete internationally opens a can of worms with the Spanish authorities and any other country with unhappy regional separatists that also happen to play RL. The UK works as England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland (either alone or as part of an All Ireland team) are happy to compete separately or together. The issue with Catalonia did literally happen in RL too 

Cornwall for RLWC 2025!

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4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Just for info:

England represent England & Wales. The ECB is, in full, the England & Wales Cricket Board. It annoys some that they never acknowledge that.

Scotland have their own side and their own board, Ireland do too and they are now a Test nation.

A world class fast bowler born in Scotland would soon qualify for England.  

Is there any reason why England RL cannot be linked as "England and Wales"?

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3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

What's up with Northern Ireland?

England don't represent all of GB at cricket, Scotland have their own team as do Ireland (on an all-ireland basis). Its not worth getting into the separate existence of virtually every Scottish and English institution since 1701 either. 

My point is rather that RL allowing say Catalonia to compete internationally opens a can of worms with the Spanish authorities and any other country with unhappy regional separatists that also happen to play RL. The UK works as England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland (either alone or as part of an All Ireland team) are happy to compete separately or together. The issue with Catalonia did literally happen in RL too 

Nothing wrong with  NI, but its a bore to type with a thick thumb.

As we know, Morgan from Dublin plays for England at cricket.  The whole thing is a mess. This is before we get to the Olympics where of course they go out of their way to call themselves 'Team GB'.

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On 13/01/2021 at 23:53, Dunbar said:

No way is the Samoa game a comfortable win for England. I will be happy with a win in this game in any shape or form.

The expression is usually "any way, shape or form", was this a deliberate omission ? if so, it sounds like there are some `ways` you would rather not see employed, certainly turning on the `biff` maybe one way that could easily backfire, I`d hate to see you lose a couple of star players for the rest of the tournament, or are there `ways`, perhaps the `Bennett` way, you would just rather not see employed, Personally I consider this a 50/50 game as well and would definitely take a win using any tactics or `way`.

This a WC after all and any winning tactics will we good tactics. Think bodyline, bringing back Mike Brearley in `87 (?) all out of the box `ways ` that delivered results.

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7 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

The expression is usually "any way, shape or form", was this a deliberate omission ? if so, it sounds like there are some `ways` you would rather not see employed, certainly turning on the `biff` maybe one way that could easily backfire, I`d hate to see you lose a couple of star players for the rest of the tournament, or are there `ways`, perhaps the `Bennett` way, you would just rather not see employed,

I think you have read just a little bit too much into me typing a post too quickly because I was supposed to be working 😁

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6 hours ago, langpark said:

When I spoke about him playing for Aus instead of Fiji I was talking about his RL days. I have no idea what he's done then as I do not follow union. 

Yeah mate, the post after your post said that he had gone back to playing for Fiji, which I assumed that meant in union, someone else followed up explaining the union international eligibility rules, that`s the only way I knew it, as far as I am concerned , if he`s not playing League than I don`t really care what he`s doing, but that doesn`t mean I`m happy that he`s wasted over there in onion. much rather see blokes like him lighting up our WC, he`s definitely a player that could bring WC highlight moments, just the sort that many seem to think the game lacks now. He was a special.

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5 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I think you have read just a little bit too much into me typing a post too quickly because I was supposed to be working 😁

Won`t distract you much longer, interesting omission though, one might even think Freudian perhaps, you know " fair play and all that, old chap".😉 Sorry Dunbar, we do love our British stereotypes over here.

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On 13/01/2021 at 15:49, Dr Tim Whatley said:

This year, we've got a 16 team World Cup, giving the casual sports fan something simple to understand. Four groups, top two go through to QFs. That's great and should be the format - exclusively with 'real' nations* - for the foreseeable future.

Yes there will be blowouts, but other major world cups** don't fiddle around with things in order to avoid them and nor should RL.

 

*I want to be careful here. England, for example, isn't a nation state after all. But you know what I mean.

**Cricket just got rid of the 'minor' nations for the 2019 edition. A retrograde step in my view.

I'm so happy that it's a simple format. I REALLY hated the 14 team format.

One thing that they could have done, rather than a separate emerging nations, is just rankings games. So the top 2 from each group go into a Quarter Final, and the bottom 2 from each group go into a separate set of Quarter Finals. If you did winners vs winners and losers vs losers from each round you could actually have a final ranking for the World Cup (1-16).

It would mean that the emerging nations would get extra games in a system where quality games are hard to come by, as well as allowing the weaker teams more of a chance to play against teams of a similar level - e.g. Greece probably going to take three losses in their group, but might be more competitive against the other 4th seeded teams. Seeding means that groups will always have strong and weak teams, a ranking series could allow more competitive games at all levels as the WC goes on.

But to be honest, as long as they're rid of the 14 team format I'm happy and excited for the tournament!

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