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Sat 5 Jun: CCSF: Hull FC v St Helens KO 14:30 (TV)


Who will win?  

25 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win?

    • Hull FC
      9
    • St Helens
      16

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  • Poll closed on 05/06/21 at 14:00

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Just glad the fages score wasn't the difference. Nothing against him and I admire him as a player. Like I've said it could have been dealt with better. This sort of thing doesn't happen very often. Really disingenuous for people to say this could happen every week if allowed. I've snapped a cruciate after offloading a ball. Believe me you're not worried about where the ball is.

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Jake Connor almost won it for Hull single handedly so it was a pity his pass was picked off by Regan Grace. He kept chancing his arm and it was coming off but maybe he pushed his luck one time too many.

Hull were a lot better when they started offloading the ball, prior to that they were quite ineffective. Sneyd had a poor game and Reynolds was mostly anonymous.

All the ex players on BBC agree that there was nothing wrong whatsoever with Fages picking up the ball and scoring. Hull coach Brett Hodgson was also of that opinion. The feeling was that every player is taught to play to the whistle and that Griffin should have kept hold of the ball. Jones- Buchanan recalled when he had his eye socket and cheekbone broken but he still didn't let go of the ball.

It was just unlucky from a Hull point of view

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18 minutes ago, Rob Nash said:

Just glad the fages score wasn't the difference. Nothing against him and I admire him as a player. Like I've said it could have been dealt with better. This sort of thing doesn't happen very often. Really disingenuous for people to say this could happen every week if allowed. I've snapped a cruciate after offloading a ball. Believe me you're not worried about where the ball is.

It's impossible to say. Assuming everything else played out the same (which it wouldn't have), we wouldn't have been behind when we threw that pass so likely wouldn't have thrown it.

 

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16 minutes ago, DimmestStar said:

All the ex players on BBC agree that there was nothing wrong whatsoever with Fages picking up the ball and scoring. Hull coach Brett Hodgson was also of that opinion. The feeling was that every player is taught to play to the whistle and that Griffin should have kept hold of the ball. Jones- Buchanan recalled when he had his eye socket and cheekbone broken but he still didn't let go of the ball.

This is the important point for me. We can argue all we want whether Fages should have scored or stopped the game but ex pro's typically show a huge amount of concern, consideration and respect for each other and if they are OK with the try then I am as well.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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Posted (edited)

Really nervy match as you would expect for a semi final.  

The Fages moment was big and kept us away from Hull for a while. Incredible bad luck that you can't account for. The suggestion that Griffin should have held on to the ball is ridiculous too, the pain must have been excruciating.

A second big point was kicking. Coote nailed two sideline conversions. If Hull had the post 40-20 set with the scores as 21-20, that game ends very differently.

Pleased to see Saints becoming more clinical in attack. The ability to hold off Hull in a strong first 15 was key too. A few years ago, I don't think we would have coped with the start.

I thought we deserved the win, although we rode our luck and the scoreline was very flattering.

Edited by Chris22

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1 hour ago, Old Frightful said:

I was initially amazed when Griffin dropped the ball but I can't blame him as I've never been in so much pain as he clearly was.

As to Fages, well it's a professional sport but I think any further reasonable thoughts as to his actions evaporated with the way he celebrated with complete disregard to Griffin's plight.

Completely agree, mate. Ridiculous to critcise Griffin in the circumstances and I don't blame Fages for playing to the whistle but his celebration was unnecessary and undignified.

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Old Faithful we never lose at Wembley

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1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Really enjoyed that game and we won, which is always an added bonus. Wouldn’t have had any complaints had Hull nicked that, they were in the ascendancy in that second half and scored some good tries. 

Jake Connor won it. At the biggest moment, he lobbed a ball to Regan Grace, whose not going to turn down that chance and then missed a catch for the final try.

Wembley, then. Terrifying. Warrington are in good form and the opposition we want to avoid here. 

NOT looking like Warrington. 

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7 minutes ago, Ullman said:

Completely agree, mate. Ridiculous to critcise Griffin in the circumstances and I don't blame Fages for playing to the whistle but his celebration was unnecessary and undignified.

I wouldn’t disagree with any of that. Probably the most sensible post I’ve seen on the subject. 

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When Farges put the ball down, I was celebrating as it wasn't clear what had happened. Except that St Helens had scored 

Then the camera switched to Josh Griffin and my first thought was is he ok. 

I think both players did the only thing they could. It was one of those freak situations. 

There didn't seem to be any bad feeling between the players at the end.

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I would like to say well done to Bret Hodgson for his comments on the Fages try

Quote "It is the rules of the game, Theo Fages has the opportunity to pick it up, it is fair play."

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, it is only human nature to have an emotional reaction to a play like that, especially in a cup semi, and I think this is a particularly dignified response from Hodgson straight after the game.

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Posted (edited)

I have played hundreds of games and you know when someone is badly injured. From Fages’ position it was crystal clear. I would be astonished if he didn’t hear either a snap or Griffin’s cry of agony. It was a simply disgusting display of a deliberate and callous disregard for another player’s health. The ex players will never ever criticise another player in these circumstances, that’s the job of commentators further removed from the game. 

Fages not only knew what he was doing, he celebrated his try, and Coote happily kicked a goal which was the difference between the 2 sides when the interception was thrown. It was as close to the reason FC aren’t getting to Wembley as you can ever get. Heartbroken for FC and its many excellent fans, though not unhappy to put my woollen top away given how hot it’s been.

Edited by Exiled Wiganer
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5 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I would like to say well done to Bret Hodgson for his comments on the Fages try

Quote "It is the rules of the game, Theo Fages has the opportunity to pick it up, it is fair play."

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, it is only human nature to have an emotional reaction to a play like that, especially in a cup semi, and I think this is a particularly dignified response from Hodgson straight after the game.

His class doesn’t take away from the act. It does show that FC and its coach have style, and highlights  a gulf between the 2 clubs. 

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3 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

His class doesn’t take away from the act. It does show that FC and its coach have style, and highlights  a gulf between the 2 clubs. 

I can't agree with that at all.

To be honest, I would have been OK with Saints stopping the game or even, after reflection, allowing an FC 'walk-through' try after the kick off. I would have been praising their sense of fair play.

But the bottom line is that the try was legal. The ex-pro's agree as did the coach of the team scored against.

I hope Griffin has a speedy recovery and that his injury is not as serious as first feared but this try is not as controversial or disgusting as we are making it out to be on here.

for decades I have heard that Rugby League is a tough game and that players play to the whistle. Was that not true, should the players just stop playing at every injury? If so the game would be a farce.

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19 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I have played hundreds of games and you know when someone is badly injured. From Fages’ position it was crystal clear. I would be astonished if he didn’t hear either a snap or Griffin’s cry of agony. It was a simply disgusting display of a deliberate and callous disregard for another player’s health. The ex players will never ever criticise another player in these circumstances, that’s the job of commentators further removed from the game. 

Fages not only knew what he was doing, he celebrated his try, and Coote happily kicked a goal which was the difference between the 2 sides when the interception was thrown. It was as close to the reason FC aren’t getting to Wembley as you can ever get. Heartbroken for FC and its many excellent fans, though not unhappy to put my woollen top away given how hot it’s been.

Let’s imagine that this was the Challenge Cup Final and there are just a few seconds left.  A player from the side that’s 2 points in front drops the ball close to his line because of injury. Does the other side do the gentlemanly thing and allow the game to be stopped and subsequently lose the game or do they take advantage of the situation and score a try that wins them the cup? Let’s have honest answers only please.

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17 minutes ago, Jinking Jimmy said:

Let’s imagine that this was the Challenge Cup Final and there are just a few seconds left.  A player from the side that’s 2 points in front drops the ball close to his line because of injury. Does the other side do the gentlemanly thing and allow the game to be stopped and subsequently lose the game or do they take advantage of the situation and score a try that wins them the cup? Let’s have honest answers only please.

Picks it up and scores and wins the Cup. And honestly me thinks if you turn it round some Hull fans here would be saying exactly the same 

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Jinking Jimmy said:

Let’s imagine that this was the Challenge Cup Final and there are just a few seconds left.  A player from the side that’s 2 points in front drops the ball close to his line because of injury. Does the other side do the gentlemanly thing and allow the game to be stopped and subsequently lose the game or do they take advantage of the situation and score a try that wins them the cup? Let’s have honest answers only please.

Whenever I played we stopped when we knew someone was badly injured. It is quite simply the right thing to do, and I am astonished that it’s even debated in a hard but fair game like ours usually is. Fages chose not to. That’s all on him. Coote chose to kick the goal and that’s on him. 

Edited by Exiled Wiganer
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3 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Whenever I played we stopped when we knew someone was badly injured. It is quite simply the right thing to do, and I am astonished that it’s even debated in a hard but fair game like ours usually is. Fages chose not to. That’s all on him. Coote chose to kick the goal and that’s on him. 

I would love to be able conduct a poll of current and former professional players to find out what they would have done in the same situation.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Whenever I played we stopped when we knew someone was badly injured. It is quite simply the right thing to do, and I am astonished that it’s even debated in a hard but fair game like ours usually is. Fages chose not to. That’s all on him. Coote chose to kick the goal and that’s on him. 

Yes, we did when I played as well. But that was because a player had stayed down, obviously injured. 

I honestly can't remember a scenario like today where a player threw the ball away before the play was complete.  Not criticising Griffin, just saying it was pretty unique. 

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45 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I can't agree with that at all.

To be honest, I would have been OK with Saints stopping the game or even, after reflection, allowing an FC 'walk-through' try after the kick off. I would have been praising their sense of fair play.

But the bottom line is that the try was legal. The ex-pro's agree as did the coach of the team scored against.

I hope Griffin has a speedy recovery and that his injury is not as serious as first feared but this try is not as controversial or disgusting as we are making it out to be on here.

for decades I have heard that Rugby League is a tough game and that players play to the whistle. Was that not true, should the players just stop playing at every injury? If so the game would be a farce.

No one is arguing whether it was legal or not, it whether it is covered in the rules of the game it not.

They are arguing the sporting merit of playing on and scoring directly from a seriously injured player losing the ball, something they don't even do in football.

I get the argument that Fages may not have realised (although I don't believe it as it was blatantly obvious), to which case the sporting thing to do would have been to level up the scoring. You see this happen in football and I'd guess in other sports too. Positive headlines and a chance to show true sporting merit. Instead we're highlighting just how unsporting many of our players are, including those in the panel (Jon Wilkin being one, who ironically shortly after arguing about how ruthless the game is so it's fair game later starts crying about compassion for George Williams who wasn't allowed to play on for his side after saying he didn't want to be there).

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1 minute ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

No one is arguing whether it was legal or not, it whether it is covered in the rules of the game it not.

They are arguing the sporting merit of playing on and scoring directly from a seriously injured player losing the ball, something they don't even do in football.

I get the argument that Fages may not have realised (although I don't believe it as it was blatantly obvious), to which case the sporting thing to do would have been to level up the scoring. You see this happen in football and I'd guess in other sports too. Positive headlines and a chance to show true sporting merit. Instead we're highlighting just how unsporting many of our players are, including those in the panel (Jon Wilkin being one, who ironically shortly after arguing about how ruthless the game is so it's fair game later starts crying about compassion for George Williams who wasn't allowed to play on for his side after saying he didn't want to be there).

As I say, I would have praised Saints if that had happened. It could have gone either way and (as I have said previously) I have been swayed by the fact the ex-pro's were OK with it. They may not have called Fages all the names under the sun if they felt he was out of order but they would have made it known.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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34 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Picks it up and scores and wins the Cup. And honestly me thinks if you turn it round some Hull fans here would be saying exactly the same 

It doesn’t seem to be Hull fans with the strongest views on this. I wonder why that is. 

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27 minutes ago, Jinking Jimmy said:

I would love to be able conduct a poll of current and former professional players to find out what they would have done in the same situation.

 

 

In actual game play virtually every single player pro or amateur would’ve picked it up and scored. 

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