Salford to move to Moor Lane?

[Spidey]

25 minutes ago, Scubby said:

They have defaulted on a £1.5m bill to the council so are being shafted off to Moor Lane's tiny stadium not in the best area for growing a club. Effectively, the council saved them from administration and now are calling the shots - hence being punted to Moor Lane. SL should be stepping in and saying you will be relegated regardless in 2022 if this is your only available solution.

The SL either has minimum standards or is a Sunday pub league.

While I agree, the predicament is though Wakey & Cas should be booted out also

SL have made a rod for their own back now and won't make the tough calls

[ShropshireBull]

2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Franchising and minimum standards are a completely different thing. Salford are free to play where they like and sign who they like to stay up unless minimum stadium requirements are enforced. Salford are looking to move to a toy town stadium and have no intention of dropping down to the Championship and getting relegated. That is the thread.

I will accept franchising and min are different but I think a 5000 stadium that is 60/70% full offers more to the product than an empty box.  

Think it is going to be academic as cant see them above Toulouse tbh. 

[Davo5]

3 minutes ago, Route66 said:

Is moor lane really as bad as being made out? Was good enough to be accepted into the football league, brand new construction and a capacity big enough to easily take Salford's average attendance, give the club a chance and see what happens 

Yeap,poor location,no parking,tiny metal stands with no corporate facilities,it’s fine for non league & tier 4 football but that’s about it.

[Damien]

This again for me shows the issue with the current low salary cap. Clubs can be artificially propped up in Super League safe in the knowledge that any promoted club has significant disadvantages to overcome and that they cant be outspent, or at least outspent enough to make a difference when it comes to building a squad in a few months.

I don't particularly like the idea of clubs being booted out but things like the salary cap are at odds with P&R and allowing the cream to rise to the top. If we are to have a salary cap then minimum standards should certainly be part of that. The sport has a real mish mash of policies to placate all stakeholders and these contradict each other and only serve to hold the game back.  

[Scubby]

10 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Yeap,poor location,no parking,tiny metal stands with no corporate facilities,it’s fine for non league & tier 4 football but that’s about it.

Hence why Gary Neville is shrewdly capitalising on Salford's poor predicament at the moment to engineer this switch. It doesn't matter if Salford FC get promoted in the next few seasons - if they draw top opposition in the cups they now have a venue to capitalise on.

However you want to dress it up, the AJ Bell Stadium was built for Salford RLFC - they have done nothing to take that opportunity and have effectively been cuckooed out of it by more ambitious rivals.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Scubby

[Toby Chopra]

3 minutes ago, Scubby said:

However you want to dress it up, the AJ Bell Stadium was built for Salford RLFC - they have done nothing to take that opportunity and have effectively been cuckooed out of it by more ambitious rivals.

I don't think that's quite fair. Mr Koukash himself funded a decent quality team that ultimately made 2 finals in two years, offered free entry on occasion, put bands on and tried his best to make a noise about the club.

Despite all that, hardly anyone extra turned up. 

Some will say it was the location,  others that the COVID shut down came at the worst possible time. Maybe those things made a marginal difference, but plenty of other sports clubs have overcome similar. The bigger picture is that rugby league just doesn't capture the imgaination of many people in Salford any more, if it ever did. 

Had they stayed at the dilapidated Willows, even remaining in SL like Wakey and Cas, the numbers would have caught up with them in the end and we'd probably be where we are now, or worse. 

[DoubleD]

5 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

I don't think that's quite fair. Mr Koukash himself funded a decent quality team that ultimately made 2 finals in two years, offered free entry on occasion, put bands on and tried his best to make a noise about the club.

Despite all that, hardly anyone extra turned up. 

Some will say it was the location,  others that the COVID shut down came at the worst possible time. Maybe those things made a marginal difference, but plenty of other sports clubs have overcome similar. The bigger picture is that rugby league just doesn't capture the imgaination of many people in Salford any more, if it ever did. 

Had they stayed at the dilapidated Willows, even remaining in SL like Wakey and Cas, the numbers would have caught up with them in the end and we'd probably be where we are now, or worse. 

Correct. You only need to look at the lack of community clubs to see there isn't a high level of interest in the city

[HawkMan]

23 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Hence why Gary Neville is shrewdly capitalising on Salford's poor predicament at the moment to engineer this switch. It doesn't matter if Salford FC get promoted in the next few seasons - if they draw top opposition in the cups they now have a venue to capitalise on.

However you want to dress it up, the AJ Bell Stadium was built for Salford RLFC - they have done nothing to take that opportunity and have effectively been cuckooed out of it by more ambitious rivals.

Gary Neville has engineered nowt , the leaders in this are Sale. The Nevilles have said it's too soon for them but if they don't move now the chance may be gone if Sale are sole owners. I'm guessing but I'm sure they would also prefer sharing with Salford RL rather than Sale,  less wear and tear on pitch,  especially as Sale play European matches too.

[Scubby]

19 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

I don't think that's quite fair. Mr Koukash himself funded a decent quality team that ultimately made 2 finals in two years, offered free entry on occasion, put bands on and tried his best to make a noise about the club.

Despite all that, hardly anyone extra turned up. 

Some will say it was the location,  others that the COVID shut down came at the worst possible time. Maybe those things made a marginal difference, but plenty of other sports clubs have overcome similar. The bigger picture is that rugby league just doesn't capture the imgaination of many people in Salford any more, if it ever did. 

Had they stayed at the dilapidated Willows, even remaining in SL like Wakey and Cas, the numbers would have caught up with them in the end and we'd probably be where we are now, or worse. 

If Salford managed to take 10k+ to Old Trafford then the potential is there. Covid was tough on Salford more than most but the potential is still there.

[To Be Confirmed]

19 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

I don't think that's quite fair. Mr Koukash himself funded a decent quality team that ultimately made 2 finals in two years, offered free entry on occasion, put bands on and tried his best to make a noise about the club.

Despite all that, hardly anyone extra turned up. 

Some will say it was the location,  others that the COVID shut down came at the worst possible time. Maybe those things made a marginal difference, but plenty of other sports clubs have overcome similar. The bigger picture is that rugby league just doesn't capture the imgaination of many people in Salford any more, if it ever did. 

Had they stayed at the dilapidated Willows, even remaining in SL like Wakey and Cas, the numbers would have caught up with them in the end and we'd probably be where we are now, or worse. 

Koukash left at the end of 2017, the current Board of directors have since put the club on a far more stable trajectory. the signings that have been made are in most cases an improvement of those who have left. 

If the club do move to Moor lane then this will allow them to make the stadium work for themselves, the likes of sponsorship of the stadium will go to the club, F & B sales will go to the club, currently the only income that Salford get from match days is ticket sales. the club have come out and said that there obstacles that need to be overcome before any move takes place and the likes of parking etc are clearly some of those but none of them are insummountable. 

[To Be Confirmed]

52 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Hence why Gary Neville is shrewdly capitalising on Salford's poor predicament at the moment to engineer this switch. It doesn't matter if Salford FC get promoted in the next few seasons - if they draw top opposition in the cups they now have a venue to capitalise on.

However you want to dress it up, the AJ Bell Stadium was built for Salford RLFC - they have done nothing to take that opportunity and have effectively been cuckooed out of it by more ambitious rivals.

Gary Neville and Co arent capitalizing on the Rugby clubs predicament, Sale Sharks are looking at buying the stadium so they can generate much more from matchdays, Neville rightly knows that if they dont move now and buy the stadium with Sale and they get promoted they will have to move out of the city which they dont want. 

They have already confirmed that this move is coming to early for them but its either move now or risk moving out of the city.

[Scubby]

12 minutes ago, To Be Confirmed said:

Gary Neville and Co arent capitalizing on the Rugby clubs predicament, Sale Sharks are looking at buying the stadium so they can generate much more from matchdays, Neville rightly knows that if they dont move now and buy the stadium with Sale and they get promoted they will have to move out of the city which they dont want. 

They have already confirmed that this move is coming to early for them but its either move now or risk moving out of the city.

He may be doing it with a heavy heart but he is doing it. He is an honest guy.

He knows where he is moving from and where he is moving to. He also knows the history of Salford RLFC and the cul-de-sac they are heading down with Moor Lane in terms of what a SL club requires..

Edited October 18, 2021 by Scubby

[To Be Confirmed]

10 minutes ago, Scubby said:

He may be doing it with a heavy heart but he is doing it. He is an honest guy.

He knows where he is moving from and where he is moving to. He also knows the history of Salford RLFC and the cul-de-sac they are heading down with Moor Lane in terms of what a SL club requires..

no he is doing it to protect his club if they progress as there aspirations are to do. 

If they get promoted they have to move out of Moor Lane

[Scubby]

4 minutes ago, To Be Confirmed said:

no he is doing it to protect his club if they progress as there aspirations are to do. 

If they get promoted they have to move out of Moor Lane

Yes I get that but it seems one club is future proofing against aspiration and the other is downsizing and effectively hampering any ambition.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Scubby

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, Scubby said:

If Salford managed to take 10k+ to Old Trafford then the potential is there. Covid was tough on Salford more than most but the potential is still there.

I just don't think it is. Salford get a lot of free passes from people for a lot of reasons, but ultimately, they have a good ground (soon to be 'had'), they had a rich backer, they had plenty of good signings, they have been to Wembley and Old Trafford - but people are just not bothering. 

We can talk about potential all we want, we can talk about them being strategically important, but none of that counts for anything when they just keep returning really poor crowds an struggle to pay the bills. 

I like Salford - I used to like going to the Willows, and they generally bring a decent loud following to the HJ, but they are a really weak SL club, and I'm not sure I can ever really see that changing. I hope I'm wrong.

[sweaty craiq]

2 hours ago, To Be Confirmed said:

Koukash left at the end of 2017, the current Board of directors have since put the club on a far more stable trajectory. the signings that have been made are in most cases an improvement of those who have left. 

If the club do move to Moor lane then this will allow them to make the stadium work for themselves, the likes of sponsorship of the stadium will go to the club, F & B sales will go to the club, currently the only income that Salford get from match days is ticket sales. the club have come out and said that there obstacles that need to be overcome before any move takes place and the likes of parking etc are clearly some of those but none of them are insummountable. 

How have they put the club on a more stable trajectory, you failed to meet the cva and failed to pay rent agreed. No Koukash no club today

[Scubby]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I just don't think it is. Salford get a lot of free passes from people for a lot of reasons, but ultimately, they have a good ground (soon to be 'had'), they had a rich backer, they had plenty of good signings, they have been to Wembley and Old Trafford - but people are just not bothering. 

We can talk about potential all we want, we can talk about them being strategically important, but none of that counts for anything when they just keep returning really poor crowds an struggle to pay the bills. 

I like Salford - I used to like going to the Willows, and they generally bring a decent loud following to the HJ, but they are a really weak SL club, and I'm not sure I can ever really see that changing. I hope I'm wrong.

Harsh but fair.

And how does going to a Subbuteo sized stadium with click and build aluminium stands and zero hospitality facilities help this in any way? SL should be saying no way before this deal is done. Salford should know exactly where they stand before they move - the minimum criteria is now getting pretty silly for the game's top competition.

[Wholly Trinity]

15 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Harsh but fair.

And how does going to a Subbuteo sized stadium with click and build aluminium stands and zero hospitality facilities help this in any way? SL should be saying no way before this deal is done. Salford should know exactly where they stand before they move - the minimum criteria is now getting pretty silly for the game's top competition.

Can you give us a link to these "minimum" standards set at any time during the superleague era? 

Starting from 'framing the future' there have been SL standards,  eg min 2.5k seating, but afaik there have never been minimum standards. Even pitch size has exceptions as they backed away from enforcing full-sized pitches to accommodate those who play on soccer pitches. 

I believe Wakefield receive reduced central funding because the stadium doesn't meet SL standards, and lost points on licencing bids because of it. However, the stadium is but one of the criteria. If SL was to adopt meaningful minimum standards there would not be enough teams to form a league.

[theswanmcr]

While there’s some good and fair points on here there’s also a case of some kicking a club when it’s down.

Salford are not a big club. The Super League 1.5 joke was about right - along with a few others we are not really big enough for SL in terms of crowds. But only a few clubs are.
 

So were caught in the old catch-22 situation… move to Moor Lane in a ground that is perfect for now in terms of capacity and we’re hammered for a lack of ambition. Stay where we are (not that that’s an option) and we can’t pay the rent in an oversize stadium.

None of it is ideal. Moor Lane is fine, will get a good atmosphere. But if the RFL said that we couldn’t play there in SL due to minimum standards the fine - but you need to be just as strict with other clubs too.

[To Be Confirmed]

1 hour ago, sweaty craiq said:

How have they put the club on a more stable trajectory, you failed to meet the cva and failed to pay rent agreed. No Koukash no club today

Maybe so, however the club is now debt free by all intents and purposes, have a competitive squad, Rent was still an issue when Koukash was in charge and despite the millions he never paid the agreed rental figure either.  He also didnt pay off the CVA whilst he was in charge. 

He did however sell a number of players in order to reduce the money that he had to put in, he abolished the academy because he didn't see the benefit of it. 

So the fact that we are in the early stages of developing an academy, we are engaging more in the community and have no large debts hanging over the clubs heads means yes they are on a much more stable trajectory, granted the move from the AJ Bell if far from ideal but the club will deal with it they will be in a position to generate much more income from Moor Lane and move forward

[Angelic Cynic]

1 hour ago, Wholly Trinity said:

Can you give us a link to these "minimum" standards set at any time during the superleague era? 

Starting from 'framing the future' there have been SL standards,  eg min 2.5k seating, but afaik there have never been minimum standards. Even pitch size has exceptions as they backed away from enforcing full-sized pitches to accommodate those who play on soccer pitches. 

I believe Wakefield receive reduced central funding because the stadium doesn't meet SL standards, and lost points on licencing bids because of it. However, the stadium is but one of the criteria. If SL was to adopt meaningful minimum standards there would not be enough teams to form a league.

It is in the Operational Rules.Section A2.On a pdf.

The Salford commercial guy ain't despondent. Looking well ahead

https://m.soundcloud.com/devil-in-the-detail-srd/george

[Scubby]

54 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

While there’s some good and fair points on here there’s also a case of some kicking a club when it’s down.

Salford are not a big club. The Super League 1.5 joke was about right - along with a few others we are not really big enough for SL in terms of crowds. But only a few clubs are.
 

So were caught in the old catch-22 situation… move to Moor Lane in a ground that is perfect for now in terms of capacity and we’re hammered for a lack of ambition. Stay where we are (not that that’s an option) and we can’t pay the rent in an oversize stadium.

None of it is ideal. Moor Lane is fine, will get a good atmosphere. But if the RFL said that we couldn’t play there in SL due to minimum standards the fine - but you need to be just as strict with other clubs too.

It's certainly not kicking a club when it is down from my point of view. It is trying to maintain any kind of elite standards for the only other fully professional RL competition outside the NRL. I agree completely about being strict with other clubs.

If Salford said we were going to Moor Lane for 12 months while we sort our #### out then you could imagine a dispensation being allowed for perhaps 1 season. But this looks like the club is looking to permanently base itself in a stadium of 5k. That puts it alongside Dewsbury and even below the likes of Batley.

[theswanmcr]

3 minutes ago, Scubby said:

It's certainly not kicking a club when it is down from my point of view. It is trying to maintain any kind of elite standards for the only other fully professional RL competition outside the NRL. I agree completely about being strict with other clubs.

If Salford said we were going to Moor Lane for 12 months while we sort our #### out then you could imagine a dispensation being allowed for perhaps 1 season. But this looks like the club is looking to permanently base itself in a stadium of 5k. That puts it alongside Dewsbury and even below the likes of Batley.

That’s fair enough. Being realistic it’s hugely unlikely we’ll find/build another ground so it’s a 5k stadium or bust and we take our chances with that.

Unless of course this all changes… nothing signed and sealed yet and (another) multimillionaire might appear off Regent Road in the next few months!

[RigbyLuger]

Cas and Wakey weren't lucky enough to have a supermarket wanting to build a new store (though both should have done more of course.)

[GUBRATS]

8 hours ago, Scubby said:

I have nothing against Salford who have a great history but I really can't see what the difference is between Hunslet and Dewsbury being denied promotion in 1999-2000 ish and Salford wanting to play in a tiny box stadium. Twenty years on we are supposed to be moving forward aren't we?

Wakefield were initially denied promotion over their stadium 1998 (yes 1998!) and they wangled this fabricated story about playing games at Barnsley. Hunslet were then denied promotion despite having a 2500 grandstand and offering to erect temp seating. Dewsbury's stadium is exactly what we are talking about with Salford - denied!

Now, two decades on Ealing Trailfinders and Moor Lane are being allowed into SL - which still has Cas and Wakefield FFS. We then wonder about attractiveness to broadcasters and big name sponsors. 

And Leigh still doesn't have a train station at the LSV