Salford to move to Moor Lane?

[Ray Cashmere]

13 minutes ago, dboy said:

So "no" then.

There's no "effectively" about it.

A lease is not ownership.

I have no idea what wider point you're trying to make here but the differences between long-term leasehold and freehold are immaterial in this context. 

 

What matters is who has effective control over the assets of the property. That would be Salford. 

 

 

[dead man inc]

On 02/11/2021 at 12:58, Ray Cashmere said:

... Money talks at the end of the day ...

 

Well it does when Salford decided to default on the £1.5 million pound loan from the council - taxpayers money that could/should have been used to help the most disadvantaged  in the Salford community

[JohnM]

29 minutes ago, Henson Park Old Firm said:

But would they own the ground?

Why is that so important to you?

[Scubby]

8 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Why is that so important to you?

He's an estate agent 

[Ray Cashmere]

13 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Have you guys looked into linking up with Salford Uní to establish another pathway and grow the brand.  

Our university partnerships and player pathway scheme were discussed in depth tonight:

• We have an existing partnership with Salford University and are also working with UoM and Manchester Met 
• 3 players who have graduated from our partnership with Wales Rugby League and will be playing in our reserves this upcoming season are to begin scholarships with UCLAN managed around their rugby. Our new reserves coach works at UCLAN and is developing this relationship further.
• We now have 3 player pathway partnership: Wales RL, Ipswich Jets & Ghana RL. The latter is longer-term but the aim is to bring players from all 3 into our player pathway and provide opportunities for them to study with Eccles College/UCLAN/Salford Uni and develop into potential Super League players. 
• We now have 84 partner schools in GM, the vast majority having not played rugby league before 
• We are working on pathways for ethnic minorities similar to the RFL's Tackle It Academy
• We have just launched the REDS programme for 14-17 year olds identified as having potential to come and train with the club with the potential of entering our pathway.

 

I get it's fashionable to clobber Salford for holding the sport back (understandably so given our recent history) but the present and future look very encouraging so long as the stadium issue is resolved.

[Davo5]

22 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

If Swinton dont move in with Salford I question what the point of that club is. 

3g the pitch,  Salford and Swinton under one roof and have it become a proper rugby league hub. 

It may not feel like it but this can be a positive for Salford and means they can be viable without SL funding. 

You do realise that 3G pitches are only suitable for hockey.

Multisport pitches are now 5G but even those aren’t great for playing RL on.

[DI Keith Fowler]

13 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

You do realise that 3G pitches are only suitable for hockey.

Multisport pitches are now 5G but even those aren’t great for playing RL on.

Pretty sure there's only 3G, everything after that is just marketing speak for the same thing.

[Davo5]

8 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

Pretty sure there's only 3G, everything after that is just marketing speak for the same thing.

Pretty sure your wrong 

[Mr Frisky]

10 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Pretty sure your wrong 

Hope they go for 6G then.

[Dave T]

10 hours ago, Ray Cashmere said:

Our university partnerships and player pathway scheme were discussed in depth tonight:

• We have an existing partnership with Salford University and are also working with UoM and Manchester Met 
• 3 players who have graduated from our partnership with Wales Rugby League and will be playing in our reserves this upcoming season are to begin scholarships with UCLAN managed around their rugby. Our new reserves coach works at UCLAN and is developing this relationship further.
• We now have 3 player pathway partnership: Wales RL, Ipswich Jets & Ghana RL. The latter is longer-term but the aim is to bring players from all 3 into our player pathway and provide opportunities for them to study with Eccles College/UCLAN/Salford Uni and develop into potential Super League players. 
• We now have 84 partner schools in GM, the vast majority having not played rugby league before 
• We are working on pathways for ethnic minorities similar to the RFL's Tackle It Academy
• We have just launched the REDS programme for 14-17 year olds identified as having potential to come and train with the club with the potential of entering our pathway.

 

I get it's fashionable to clobber Salford for holding the sport back (understandably so given our recent history) but the present and future look very encouraging so long as the stadium issue is resolved.

Posts like this should be trotted out when the forum comes round to its monthly cycle of questioning the value of existing teams like Salford. 

[M j M]

11 hours ago, JohnM said:

Why is that so important to you?

Ownership isn't important in itself.

Being able to exploit the full commercial opportunities of the stadium is however. And that generally comes with ownership or long leasehold (as many of the financially struggling Super League clubs who rent their stadia and have little control will confirm.)

[dboy]

11 hours ago, Ray Cashmere said:

I have no idea what wider point you're trying to make here but the differences between long-term leasehold and freehold are immaterial in this context. 

 

What matters is who has effective control over the assets of the property. That would be Salford. 

 

 

The point, explicit - not wide, is that you were asked directly "would Salford own the ground?"

You said yes, when the answer is no.

Just a matter of honesty, truthfulness and accuracy

If the lease is as little as 21 years, you wouldn't waste money painting the walls, never mind doing floodlights, stands and corporate upgrades.

 

[Henson Park Old Firm]

29 minutes ago, M j M said:

Ownership isn't important in itself.

Being able to exploit the full commercial opportunities of the stadium is however. And that generally comes with ownership or long leasehold (as many of the financially struggling Super League clubs who rent their stadia and have little control will confirm.)

Look at Hull, Huddersfeild, Wigan

[Tonka]

To be fair to Ray he quite deliberately said "full commercial control" in his original post.  When he says "effectively, yes" on the issue of legal ownership, he's not trying to suggest that leasehold = legal ownership of the title.  We all know, however, that leasehold ownership is akin to full ownership if you can treat the asset as yours, and that's all he's saying.  The length of the lease will be important (21 years is different to 100, for example), as will whether Salford as leaseholder is free to develop the seating capacity or make any other changes to enhance the stadium.

I just want to wish good luck to Ray, he comes across as pragmatic and on top of the issues.

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

44 minutes ago, Tonka said:

To be fair to Ray he quite deliberately said "full commercial control" in his original post.  When he says "effectively, yes" on the issue of legal ownership, he's not trying to suggest that leasehold = legal ownership of the title.  We all know, however, that leasehold ownership is akin to full ownership if you can treat the asset as yours, and that's all he's saying.  The length of the lease will be important (21 years is different to 100, for example), as will whether Salford as leaseholder is free to develop the seating capacity or make any other changes to enhance the stadium.

I just want to wish good luck to Ray, he comes across as pragmatic and on top of the issues.

Agreed!

[DI Keith Fowler]

12 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Pretty sure your wrong 

I'm not, currently the RFL, FA and RFU only recognise 3G as a technology. What is being called 4G, 5G etc. is marketing for products which while may be better than predecessors are fundamentally the same 3G technology otherwise they wouldn't be allowed. 

I think from when you said hockey you're thinking of 2G astroturf i.e. sand without rubber infill. 

[M j M]

2 hours ago, Henson Park Old Firm said:

2 hours ago, M j M said:

Ownership isn't important in itself.

Being able to exploit the full commercial opportunities of the stadium is however. And that generally comes with ownership or long leasehold (as many of the financially struggling Super League clubs who rent their stadia and have little control will confirm.)

Look at Hull, Huddersfeild, Wigan

Huddersfield are a different case as they have, at least for now, an element of ownership and control.

Hull and Wigan though, exactly - two of what should be our strongest clubs have major issues one way or another.

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, dboy said:

The point, explicit - not wide, is that you were asked directly "would Salford own the ground?"

You said yes, when the answer is no.

Just a matter of honesty, truthfulness and accuracy

If the lease is as little as 21 years, you wouldn't waste money painting the walls, never mind doing floodlights, stands and corporate upgrades.

 

If you knew you were going to live in a house for 21 years wouldn’t you bother decorating it then? 

[Wanderer]

44 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

I'm not, currently the RFL, FA and RFU only recognise 3G as a technology. What is being called 4G, 5G etc. is marketing for products which while may be better than predecessors are fundamentally the same 3G technology otherwise they wouldn't be allowed. 

I think from when you said hockey you're thinking of 2G astroturf i.e. sand without rubber infill. 

I have also seen reference to Synthetic and Hybrid pitches - where do these fit into the picture?

We probably need a separate 'plastic pitch' thread to discuss 

[dboy]

14 minutes ago, Eddie said:

If you knew you were going to live in a house for 21 years wouldn’t you bother decorating it then? 

Not talking about decorating though, are we.

I'd roll it in glitter, but I wouldn't build a £10m extension.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

6 minutes ago, dboy said:

Not talking about decorating though, are we.

You brought it up!

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Dave T said:

Posts like this should be trotted out when the forum comes round to its monthly cycle of questioning the value of existing teams like Salford. 

As positive as those things are, I don't think they negate all the downsides or mean they get away from criticism. They are going backwards and are going to play in a ground with approx a 5K capacity - and this in a supposedly elite competition. Put whatever spin you like on this, but it's not a positive development. 

That said, I wish them all the best and hope their fortunes improve. 

[Eddie]

Just now, ShropshireBull said:

When we say 3g everyone bar people who have some curious people knows what we are talking about. A non grass pitch that can be used constantly and consistently throughout the year, the like that would transform Salford from a 13 game a season activity into a genuine community club who should be having University teams, Cat 3 academy and schools using the ground in the afternoon and then renting the pitch from 6-10pm in the evening. 

I know it’s a good idea in principle, but you seem to mention Universities in every post now (progress from York and Newcastle). I don’t think a meaningful university link up would be easy to arrange. 

[Tonka]

47 minutes ago, dboy said:

Not talking about decorating though, are we.

I'd roll it in glitter, but I wouldn't build a £10m extension.

Well it depends, doesn’t it?

If the numbers work, spending £x on even a 21 year lease to add 3k to the capacity might be more than viable, whether or not they extend the lease after that time or look elsewhere.

[Ray Cashmere]

4 hours ago, dboy said:

The point, explicit - not wide, is that you were asked directly "would Salford own the ground?"

You said yes, when the answer is no.

Just a matter of honesty, truthfulness and accuracy

If the lease is as little as 21 years, you wouldn't waste money painting the walls, never mind doing floodlights, stands and corporate upgrades.

 

It's a matter of pedantry.

Unless we were planning on having an open top bus parade to celebrate the official copies of title stating Salford Red Devils as possessing the freehold then the practical and commercial implications of a having a long-lease instead are nil.