Batley or Halifax in Super League?

[paulwalker71]

So with the Championship play offs coming up this weekend, we find ourselves in a scenario where either Batley or Halifax could be promoted to Super League over 160 minutes of rugby.

Yes, it's highly unlikely. But it could happen.

I was wondering - do Halifax and Batley actually want to go into Super League? Would they accept the Super League place IF they won it? Would they try to be part-time in SL and is that even allowed? Would they try to go full-time (and probably end up going bust)?

As I say, highly unlikely, but could we end up in a situation where Leigh avoid relegation because the team eligible for promotion doesn't want to be in SL.

[Mumby Magic]

Good question. When I worked at Batley they said the aim was eventually SL. That was 20 years ago and I suppose things have changed though.

[M j M]

Would be great to see 'Fax back in SL although I'm not sure they would expect to be anywhere near.

[marklaspalmas]

Why not? Two good clubs, they'd deserve it.

[paulwalker71]

10 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

Why not? Two good clubs, they'd deserve it.

They would deserve it

But how would they approach it? Clearly both teams have nowhere near the kind of the squad or the back office structure to make a serious go at SL right now. Do they go into SL knowing that's just a one-season adventure, get battered every week and get relegated. Or do they try and 'scale up' quickly - and probably still get relegated and then be saddled with all sort of debt that would leave them worse off than they are now?

To be honest, I think a lot of the same issues apply to Featherstone too. 

Nobody is saying that they aren't 'good clubs' or that they'd deserve if through on-field activity. But I'm curious as to what the strategy would be

[Griff]

17 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

Why not? Two good clubs, they'd deserve it.

Deserve the headaches ?

That's a bit mean-spirited.

[Niels]

Batley are very well run. They have an excellent Chairman who has run the club financially solvent for a long time. He would always ensure the club doesn't spend beyond its means. Yet we always have a competitive team. 

We have been in the Championship over 20 years, never been relegated. We have won the Northern Rail cup and reached a grand final.

We also do great initiatives such as the Jo Cox game, pink game, and the game against an ethnic Asian team which is part of encouraging minority groups into the sport. I think we are one of the most proactive teams in this regard. 

I think we would be a breath of fresh air for Super league and I think we would certainly take our place. 

I can't speak for Halifax but they have history and potential of a good following.

 

 

[Eddie]

I think Halifax have more potential, due to number of fans and their ground, but good look to either of them if they do it, would be a great underdog story of Leicester proportions.  Imagine next season kicking off with Hull KR as reigning champions playing Batley. 

[dealwithit]

Watching both Batley and Halifax last weekend left me feeling content if either was promoted. 
Recruitment is the trick. Use the SL grant and assemble both a solid squad AND an impressive coaching team. Lingard and Grix both seem very composed characters. Neither club would be a blight on SL. 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

One of them reaching the final wouldn't be too much of a shock to me although I think it's very unlikely that either would be able to repeat the feat the following week to gain promotion. Looking back over the season there have been very few shock results so maybe we're due one?

I only hope that Covid doesn't play any part in it all

[paulwalker71]

1 hour ago, dealwithit said:

Use the SL grant and assemble both a solid squad AND an impressive coaching team. Lingard and Grix both seem very composed characters. Neither club would be a blight on SL. 

And how would either club do that when Leigh couldn't build a competitive squad even with Beaumont's money?

Availability of players is the key. Both clubs would essentially need a completely new (full time) squad to even have a chance to compete. And I don't know where all those players would come from.

It's unclear (to me at least) whether SL would permit a part-time team to be in Super League?

 

[paulwalker71]

38 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

One of them reaching the final wouldn't be too much of a shock to me although I think it's very unlikely that either would be able to repeat the feat the following week to gain promotion. Looking back over the season there have been very few shock results so maybe we're due one?

I only hope that Covid doesn't play any part in it all

I agree Les. Pulling a shock in one-off is one thing, but backing up the following week would seem unlikely in the extreme

But nonetheless, interesting to speculate

 

[The Blues Ox]

I would imagine both teams would obviously not turn down the chance but I would imagine both teams would have similar plans if they ended up there. In my opinion it would be best if we just banked the cash, ran a large but cheap squad, and then planned to be better prepared for the following season to look to gain promotion and then have a real shot at staying up. If Im honest I think Fev should do the same as they won't stay up either in all likelyhood but who is going to begrudge them their place other than any under threat SL teams. Also in my opinion Leigh's biggest mistake this season was believing they could compete and its now left them in a state where they are struggling to put a team together that could challenge for promotion next season.

[paulwalker71]

2 hours ago, Niels said:

Batley are very well run. They have an excellent Chairman who has run the club financially solvent for a long time. He would always ensure the club doesn't spend beyond its means. Yet we always have a competitive team. 

We have been in the Championship over 20 years, never been relegated. We have won the Northern Rail cup and reached a grand final.

We also do great initiatives such as the Jo Cox game, pink game, and the game against an ethnic Asian team which is part of encouraging minority groups into the sport. I think we are one of the most proactive teams in this regard. 

I think we would be a breath of fresh air for Super league and I think we would certainly take our place. 

I can't speak for Halifax but they have history and potential of a good following.

 

 

I'm not sure why there is the need to defend your club. I agree with all you say, I admire Batley as a club, but that's hardly the point that we are discussing here.

And, for the avoidance of doubt, I definitely do NOT want my club (Bradford Bulls) to be in SL right now. It would absolutely destroy the club. I don't want the same to happen to another club.

[RogerT]

Now this is a blo**y good question, as a Batley supporter the though of being up there with the high and mighty is a pipe dream, in my opinion it would be a step too far, i would rather be at or very near the top of the championship or in SL2 if that's the route the authorities decide upon. 

[David Shepherd]

36 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

And how would either club do that when Leigh couldn't build a competitive squad even with Beaumont's money?

Availability of players is the key. Both clubs would essentially need a completely new (full time) squad to even have a chance to compete. And I don't know where all those players would come from.

It's unclear (to me at least) whether SL would permit a part-time team to be in Super League?

 

Don't think the money part was the problem. Leigh were pretty abject in their previous foray into SL and had full central funding too.  

[David Shepherd]

38 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

And how would either club do that when Leigh couldn't build a competitive squad even with Beaumont's money?

Availability of players is the key. Both clubs would essentially need a completely new (full time) squad to even have a chance to compete. And I don't know where all those players would come from.

It's unclear (to me at least) whether SL would permit a part-time team to be in Super League?

 

In 2019 Fev stated they'd look to run a hybrid system if they won the GF. RFL didn't object and confirmed we were eligible to be promoted.

 

[paulwalker71]

6 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

In 2019 Fev stated they'd look to run a hybrid system if they won the GF. RFL didn't object and confirmed we were eligible to be promoted.

 

Interesting. I wasn't aware of that.

Being cynical, I suppose it suits the Super League clubs to have a 'whipping boy' club promoted as if protects them from relegation for another year.

[Spidey]

7 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

In 2019 Fev stated they'd look to run a hybrid system if they won the GF. RFL didn't object and confirmed we were eligible to be promoted.

 

I don’t think that’s true. FT and PT playing contracts are different and to play in SL I’m sure you have to sign a FT contract 

[iffleyox]

53 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

I would imagine both teams would obviously not turn down the chance but I would imagine both teams would have similar plans if they ended up there. In my opinion it would be best if we just banked the cash, ran a large but cheap squad, and then planned to be better prepared for the following season to look to gain promotion and then have a real shot at staying up. If Im honest I think Fev should do the same as they won't stay up either in all likelyhood but who is going to begrudge them their place other than any under threat SL teams. Also in my opinion Leigh's biggest mistake this season was believing they could compete and its now left them in a state where they are struggling to put a team together that could challenge for promotion next season.

this is one of the two sane options - you either refuse to go up, or you go up, run on a shoestring, expect to go down but have fun doing it and bank the difference.

In RU everyone forgets that London Welsh actually went up twice to the Premiership in three seasons. The first time they actually had fun, won some matches, and were in with a shout of staying up; it was the second time, when some people had delusions of a divine right to be there, that they lost every match.

Edited September 29, 2021 by iffleyox

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

Just now, Spidey said:

I don’t think that’s true. FT and PT playing contracts are different and to play in SL I’m sure you have to sign a FT contract 

I'm pretty sure that's a forum myth. There is nothing in the Operational Rules to say SL players must be FT. 

[Spidey]

8 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

I'm pretty sure that's a forum myth. There is nothing in the Operational Rules to say SL players must be FT. 

I’m sure it’s something around salary cap, more than anything

[overtheborder]

IMO I think whoever it is, whether they're prepared for it or not, it surely benefits a club as a whole to go up, give it as good a crack as they can, and even if they do get battered every week the increase in revenues from clubs like Leeds, Wigan, Warrington, Hull visiting will hopefully help them build, improve and maybe (even after two or three attempts at this cycle) become strong enough to establish a footing in SL.

I say this having zero experience chairing a club, but for me the key maybe is growing organically over a longer period of time rather than overspending to try to stay in SL first time round.

Edited September 29, 2021 by overtheborder

[Leyther_Matt]

54 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

Don't think the money part was the problem. Leigh were pretty abject in their previous foray into SL and had full central funding too.  

I think that’s a bit harsh given the win at Hull plus the home wins against Warrington, Saints and Wigan, not to mention the fact that we didn’t actually finish bottom of the SL table in 2017. 

[graveyard johnny]

4 hours ago, Mumby Magic said:

Good question. When I worked at Batley they said the aim was eventually SL. That was 20 years ago and I suppose things have changed though.

lots of things have changed in Batley in that time- the vibrant pub and club scene including legends  and the frontier has now been extinguished for one, once proud  buildings and businesses  are now rundown eyesores for another, its not just about the team been attractive its also about the appeal of the town which is now non existent