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So we’ve got Fev and Fax next , which I give us no chance in .. and after that we’ve got Sheffield , Bulls , York at home  then Haven and Rams . We’ve got to be picking up some points there to have any sniff , especially with us backloading lots of away games . It also reinforces how incredibly tough it is . 

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Hello Keith hope you are well.    Yes it's very confusing the RL Express as you say is 70-18...the Ourleague.com site shows it as 68-18, as did flashscore yesterday. It could only happen with RL eh,...... ha,ha.

Seems to have missed the Keith T quote off......whoops.

Edited by chromedome
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We expected a few of these this season but I honestly thought we would keep this under 50. All the discussions about our lowest crowds are interesting but⁸ a bit premature I hope, I was at the games mentioned but I find it a bit defeatist to be discussing this just yet. Most of us knew what we were getting into but would rather be watching these full time teams than West Wales or Coventry. The Club need everyone to stay loyal and back them, we are only 2 games in and we march on, bring on Fev. UTT.💪

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Supporters follow their club through thick and thin.

Big time Charlies jump on the band wagon when things are going good.

I think this promotion came a season too early for Chris and his long term plans but we had to take it and do the best we can.

Yes we will suffer a few heavy defeats but as long as the team show me effort and grit then that will do for me and hopefully we can get a couple of long term Loans in to help us develop our young talents and strengthen us for some of the games we should be targeting for wins.

Lets not forget where Chris has got us to in a short time and unlike a lot of other clubs he is looking at long term survival rather than or bust which should ensure we have a Club to support for many years to come and hopefully in a New Stadium which could assist him attracting players as well.

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Fully agree sausage. We were all ecstatic after the Donny game but when we sobered up the next morning reality set in.  Its such a huge leap from champ 1 to the championship, not many clubs avoid dropping back the following season, probably only York in recent years  managed to adapt and improve the following season. Swinton and Oldham are like a Yo Yo and haven would have almost certainly gone the same way if it wasn't for covid. I honestly believe the game below SL in in grave danger if we don't go back to one division in the near future. Some teams will struggle at first but hopefully would eventually find their feet and become competitive. We haven't got a rich owner or a sugar daddy donating on a regular basis, but what we do have is an exceptional coach with a young enthusiastic squad and a small hard working BOD who need our support. Talks about the new stadium are very welcome as an ageing DP is a mill stone around the clubs neck. Wouldn't it be great if the amazing  people who run the club didn't have to worry about patching the old place up. We are playing the best team in the championship on Sunday IMO, it's gonna be a daunting task to compete with them, but I can't wait. UTT .

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22 hours ago, Keith T said:

Town’s official site also gives the score as 68 - 18!!  The league table of the RL Express also shows it as 70 - 18!!  I would hate Town’s fate to be decided by 2 points at the end of the season!!!!!!

When the hooter went it was 68-18 Keith. 

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36 minutes ago, Unicorn 106 said:

Fully agree sausage. We were all ecstatic after the Donny game but when we sobered up the next morning reality set in.  Its such a huge leap from champ 1 to the championship, not many clubs avoid dropping back the following season, probably only York in recent years  managed to adapt and improve the following season. Swinton and Oldham are like a Yo Yo and haven would have almost certainly gone the same way if it wasn't for covid. I honestly believe the game below SL in in grave danger if we don't go back to one division in the near future. Some teams will struggle at first but hopefully would eventually find their feet and become competitive. We haven't got a rich owner or a sugar daddy donating on a regular basis, but what we do have is an exceptional coach with a young enthusiastic squad and a small hard working BOD who need our support. Talks about the new stadium are very welcome as an ageing DP is a mill stone around the clubs neck. Wouldn't it be great if the amazing  people who run the club didn't have to worry about patching the old place up. We are playing the best team in the championship on Sunday IMO, it's gonna be a daunting task to compete with them, but I can't wait. UTT .

Agree with everything you say on the Rugby side - but we all need to be careful about stadium plans ,  yes DP is ageing aren't we all but you dont have to search hard to see that a new stadium can also be a mill stone around the clubs neck.

A lot of teams that have given up their ground and either went into rental deals with council or ground sharing with Soccer are not happy, On our last stadium forum we had an Oldham fan write in saying they regret leaving Watersheddings [which was far older than DP or Borough Park] and since then they have been to Whitebank Stadium - Bower Fold - Boundary Park - Hurst Cross - Park Lane - Whitefield prior back to Whitebank Stadium - back to Bower Fold and back to Whitebank Stadium again, with a capacity of 1500. NO DISREPECT TO OLDHAM just showing what can happen when you leave your home.

HULL  are also currently in the news about renegotiating a new rental contract or face having to leave and I heard in past that Wigan have problems at times sharing with soccer.

RE: locally and supposed new stadium - How long and what is the rental plan for us with Allerdale council and more importantly what happens after that.

"hypothetical" What if one of the Reds or Town really improve and start getting large gates and start making money council will want a bit of that and would want to push up rent - then what happens to other team who may be same as now their rent would be a problem??

LOTS of things to think about properly - Upgrading DP & BP is hard and costly - but A shiny new stadium does not come free.

I read yesterday on site about Castleford uplift  - their council gave Cas, Wakey and Fev 2Million each to improve their existing stadiums, so if that is correct then they will not lose their homes or get into debt with rentals.

And dont forget about the lovely new stadium built for Darlington FC - who left there home ground to move to the new stadium on the A66 and then couldn't afford to play there.

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Whilst I agree with your sentiments about a new shared stadium and the dangers involved I think that it is something that with the proper business acumen should be our target.  Whilst you quote a number of cases where clubs have found difficulty in the past in the main they could have been avoided with a bit more thought and planning.  Some of your examples are where the rugby league club ground shares with a football club in a much higher division than our friends and neighbours, the Reds, and therefore a higher class of playing surface is required.  I’m sure that the Halton Stadium ( or whatever it is called these days) where Widnes play and share with, I believe, Everton Reserves, is an example of what could be achieved.  We have two old grounds that take a lot of money to maintain and that money could be better spent in a new stadium.  If it transpired that one or other of our two clubs hit the high notes and start to draw in crowds then surely it is not beyond the wit of man to have system where an extra amount of rent would be charged only when attendances were over a certain figure.  Alas having said all that and heard the various arguments over many years I just can’t see it happening anytime soon!!!!

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.

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2 hours ago, Derwent Parker said:

 

I read yesterday on site about Castleford uplift  - their council gave Cas, Wakey and Fev 2Million each to improve their existing stadiums, so if that is correct then they will not lose their homes or get into debt with rentals.

Personally I'd like to see something like this at DP rather than a new shared football stadium. Two new stands  behind the sticks and refurb the MS & PS. Maybe share with the zebras and make the stadium more multi-use.  Maybe leave the river end without a stand and leave an area for a stage for music events. Just a personal opinion

Edited by town4me
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Maybe this should be in the stadium thread but the crack that I heard from the reds match at the weekend is that some announcement will be made shortly, the ground will be managed by a committee representing both clubs and grants are still being looked into. My biggest concern at the minute is there is supposed to be 7.5 million coming from the towns deal fund but with the implosion of the Tories and a new council being formed will it still be available 

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Whatever is in the planning please think of the fans , while Widnes ground is nice and shared with other sports in the area it's facilities for spectators is poor by that i mean  hospitality, the only place we could get a drink was under the stand from a kiosk, after the match it was out and either the local pub or straight back on the bus, people might complaint about old DP and BP but at least fans can mingle in the Gus Risman and Shankly bar before and after the match, you can't beat Doncaster's lounge for visibility and comfort something like this would be ideal in opinion but maybe on a smaller scale .UTT.

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15 hours ago, Keith T said:

Whilst I agree with your sentiments about a new shared stadium and the dangers involved I think that it is something that with the proper business acumen should be our target.  Whilst you quote a number of cases where clubs have found difficulty in the past in the main they could have been avoided with a bit more thought and planning.  Some of your examples are where the rugby league club ground shares with a football club in a much higher division than our friends and neighbours, the Reds, and therefore a higher class of playing surface is required.  I’m sure that the Halton Stadium ( or whatever it is called these days) where Widnes play and share with, I believe, Everton Reserves, is an example of what could be achieved.  We have two old grounds that take a lot of money to maintain and that money could be better spent in a new stadium.  If it transpired that one or other of our two clubs hit the high notes and start to draw in crowds then surely it is not beyond the wit of man to have system where an extra amount of rent would be charged only when attendances were over a certain figure.  Alas having said all that and heard the various arguments over many years I just can’t see it happening anytime soon!!!!

this was on the Red's forum a couple of weeks ago, it was from their AGM

Big talking point was the stadium

Stadium will be super league standard 5k capacity.
plans are currently being drawn up.
theres £7.5m funding secured, a total of £12m is required (both clubs are applying for additional funding)
There is investment being looked at from other partners (non sporting).
Derwent park could be sold to help with funding.
Ground will be developed in 4 phases.
we will probably have to move out for 1 season whilst the development happens 
Allerdale BC want nothing to do with the running or operating of the ground. it will be left 2 both clubs.
A managment company is being set up at the moment. it will consist of 2 directors from reds, 2 from town and 2 independent. this company will manage and run the stadium.
there is another meeting planned for March where all the information should be available. if everything goes to plan construction will start May 2023.
 

So from the above it looks as if the two clubs will be responsible for the running and maintenance of the stadium, I just hope the agreement is watertight to ensure future directors of either club don't try to wrestle ownership from each other. 

let's remember Red's have access to FA grants which will never be available to RL clubs as the RFL are skint ! 

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Yeah, I heard that it is at the architect stage and they think they will be about 1.5 million short once all grants are received, which Allerdale is trying to fund.

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The race is not always to the swift nor the battle to the strong, but thats the way to bet!

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1 hour ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:


Stadium will be super league standard 5k capacity.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't one of the conditions for SL entry having good crowds that were quoted as above 5k. 

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I understand there is sentiment in leaving either DP or BP behind. But to appeal to the future fans and participants of both sports who don't hold the same sentiments, new facilities are required. Especially as both clubs has aspirations to play at higher levels. Thankfully members representing both clubs are in agreement on this and a way forward is being drafted up.

My only concern is the time its took already to get to this point, and the time it going to take for plans to be drawn, approval to be granted and ultimately funding confirmed before another political change that could scupper all the hard work done so far.

I see it as a plus that it will be left to both clubs to manage and maintain. Masters of your own destiny

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2 hours ago, town4me said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't one of the conditions for SL entry having good crowds that were quoted as above 5k. 

Super leagues minimum  capacity is 5000 and must include minimum of 2000 PERMENANT seats

That was in 2016 - dont know what it is now or in near future?

Edited by Derwent Parker
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15 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

Super leagues minimum  capacity is 5000 and must include minimum of 2000 PERMENANT seats

That was in 2016 - dont know what it is now or in near future?

I stand to be corrected, but I'm sure there was a caveat added at some point which would give any promoted team an timeframe to make any necessary changes to their capacity in the event of promotion which is how London, Hull KR  and Castleford got around the thorny issue of stadium capacity when they were promoted from the Championship.

In Castleford's case I think they have about 1500 seats, so are still 500 short of minimum standards, so I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it 

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1 hour ago, townie88 said:

I understand there is sentiment in leaving either DP or BP behind. But to appeal to the future fans and participants of both sports who don't hold the same sentiments, new facilities are required. Especially as both clubs has aspirations to play at higher levels. Thankfully members representing both clubs are in agreement on this and a way forward is being drafted up.

My only concern is the time its took already to get to this point, and the time it going to take for plans to be drawn, approval to be granted and ultimately funding confirmed before another political change that could scupper all the hard work done so far.

I see it as a plus that it will be left to both clubs to manage and maintain. Masters of your own destiny

I am a Haven fan, and I don't understand how two separate clubs football & rugby can manage and maintain a stadium between one & the other. 

Example: Who controls the bar takings and stock ? How do they split the running costs, Water, Gas, Electric, Rates, Grass cutting, Pitch Marking, Cleaning, Repairs, Catering, Advertising, etc. I could go on endlessly.

Should the stadium be used for community purposes how does this figure in sharing the costs 

Unfortunately, you could find that a management company may be appointed by Allerdale to manage and run the stadium.

How are the costs to be shared ? those use the stadium most, pay the most ? or the biggest gates pay the most ?  

If a management company runs the stadium both the Reds & Town do not own or control the Stadium. 

Management company run facilities are run for profit and everything they do has a cost, volunteers for cutting grass, match day security, etc will not be acceptable.

I have spoke to friends who are Leigh supporters and they regret being attached to the Sports Village stadium, stating that the charges that arise are horrendous.

Fans have more say and control in the club that they have now.

However I am a Haven fan and my Town colleague Eunuchorn will probably say that I am just trying to spook you. 

Look before you Leap. 

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33 minutes ago, Billy Bob said:

I am a Haven fan, and I don't understand how two separate clubs football & rugby can manage and maintain a stadium between one & the other. 

Example: Who controls the bar takings and stock ? How do they split the running costs, Water, Gas, Electric, Rates, Grass cutting, Pitch Marking, Cleaning, Repairs, Catering, Advertising, etc. I could go on endlessly.

Should the stadium be used for community purposes how does this figure in sharing the costs 

Unfortunately, you could find that a management company may be appointed by Allerdale to manage and run the stadium.

How are the costs to be shared ? those use the stadium most, pay the most ? or the biggest gates pay the most ?  

If a management company runs the stadium both the Reds & Town do not own or control the Stadium. 

Management company run facilities are run for profit and everything they do has a cost, volunteers for cutting grass, match day security, etc will not be acceptable.

I have spoke to friends who are Leigh supporters and they regret being attached to the Sports Village stadium, stating that the charges that arise are horrendous.

Fans have more say and control in the club that they have now.

However I am a Haven fan and my Town colleague Eunuchorn will probably say that I am just trying to spook you. 

Look before you Leap. 

I agree with all the above and is pretty much what i meant when earlier in this topic.

I watched the Lock Lane v Oldham game - when the floodlights went out quite a few times.

As Part of a written apology from the Oldham director to the roughyeds fans he stated "

“After the Wakefield game, when we experienced similar problems, we took action based on what Avro had told us had caused the issue, but given that it happened again last night there’s clearly another problem. We will obviously follow this up again, given the recurring problem last night.

“What this does highlight, once again, is the massive issue that not having a ground of our own causes. For 25 years now we have battled against this problem and continue to do so. It is incredibly hard to move forward when, ultimately, we are not in control of our own destiny. Fans can rest assured that this is something we continue to work on to try and rectify and that will not change".

Therefore If Allerdale Council or a management company runs the stadium both the Reds & Town do not own or control the Stadium and will be in the same position as the Oldham director claims they are in.

If we share a stadium then it cant have a grass pitch or it will be ruined playing on it 52 weeks a year will ruin it - so we will have to be artificial pitch which means that it will have all the stupid markings on it to cater for both games.  As a matter of fact it was stated that also in the Oldham game listed above it a try was disallowed because the Oldham player "Brierley"  grounded the ball in the football area and not in the rugby in goal area, Because of double lining.

P.S once again i mean no disrespect to Oldham has I have now mentioned them a few times.

 

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