IMG Strategic Partnership Announced

[idrewthehaggis]

48 minutes ago, RP London said:

 

The key to me is the French angle. I think there are a lot who just enjoy seeing England beat France, but not a walk over as then its just "not their sport". A non NRL player England v France could be a great match and great advert for the Sport.

i would suggest that IMG perhaps consider an annual challenge match between France and an England XIII.

Play it in southern France, around Bastille Day and maybe even more so near where Le Tour finished that day.

Stick on music, fireworks/crackers and a large bar and it transcends RL and becomes an event. 

Both codes does "events" very well. Whether it is our Magic Weekend or their Judgement Day thang. 

I may perhaps suggest that the Game's new friends, look at such vehicles to raise exposure and earn monies. Whether that be a raucous night cheering Les Bleus, Heritage round or Supporting Veterans.

Edited May 11, 2022 by idrewthehaggis

[RP London]

34 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I just don't see it. All of the above sounds great, but in reality it ends after three years when we have 6k in Leigh or 1800 in Wrexham, maybe 1k in Neath. 

The RU comparisons just don't work. The 6N teams were all strong enough and the tournament big enough to effectively carry the Italy team, and Italian RU big enough to be able to deliver large crowds and commercial value up front. 

Wales do play plenty of internationals, we should support them to play more, including against England at times, but I think we should be trying to get the likes of Tonga, PNG, Samoa etc. over as well as the big two and have them with games against the lower ranked Euro nations. 

But again, we are getting told here that it is a new market - which Welsh folk are wanting to see the Welsh RL team take a hiding versus England each year? Welsh fans can get their Rugby fix if they want it through RU, they can get tickets for 6N and Autumn internationals. There is no silver bullet for Welsh RL, continue with the WC's and their Euro games and push for more touring teams and develop at the grass roots. 

I'm not even being unnecessarily negative on this, as I say, I've been a supporter of both Wales and Scotland over the years, but I dont see a proposition including Wales that could be big in say, 5 years. 

why is this an either/or? us doing a 3 way with France and Wales does not preclude our ability to play Aus, Nz or the pacific nations.. we should be doing both.. but France and Wales can be mid season. 

In answer to your first paragraph.. how very RL absolutely.. but don't stop, carry it on, keep it going.. its the France game that initially is more important for England. 

Wales don't play enough internationals at all.. they play some yes, against Ireland and Scotland both known to not be great RL teams. England is a different matter.. and why are we so against MORE internationals.. every one should play more. 

Why are you wanting it to be big in 5 years.. thats extremely short term and is exactly why we are where we are.. we expect things to happen in such short spaces and when it doesn't we bin it off.

There is absolutely no silver bullet which is why I emphasised, really hard BTW, that it is not about the one match its about everything before and after it, its about mid season so there are games to put people on to, its about general interest growth that then in turn leads down the road to bums on seats and supporters and players.. but if we look at 1 match, if we look for the silver bullet we will never get close to fixing this.. you have to start somewhere and this type of thing IMHO is the START.

[RP London]

39 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Both Davidson and Bower have stated no financial investment. Bowers article in the Guardian was linked to from IMG's twitter. 

More than prepared to be wrong on this but i would be surprised if IMG would put their name to this if they are going to rely on the skint RFL to follow through properly on any idea they come up with. They havent built what they have on the back of "if they had only invested properly in our ideas this is the intangible that they would have got".. they want numbers and figures to prove their superiority. 

But as I say it may be wrong.

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Wikipedia suggests 2018. Surely that cannot be right. 

I'm struggling to remember them being involved in anything since then. I know they've had a couple of women's matches but ...

Google not helping.

[Tommygilf]

14 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I'm struggling to remember them being involved in anything since then. I know they've had a couple of women's matches but ...

Google not helping.

They played Jamaica at Belle Vue in 2016 which isn't showing on the Wales results page so it is possible that there are games not on there. Perhaps around the time of the World Cup 9s?

Other than that I suspect the mid year test against France this year will be Wales' first full game in 3 and a half years.

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

They played Jamaica at Belle Vue in 2016 which isn't showing on the Wales results page so it is possible that there are games not on there. Perhaps around the time of the World Cup 9s?

Other than that I suspect the mid year test against France this year will be Wales' first full game in 3 and a half years.

Found a handy database - which does seem to be as current as possible.

Last match is in 2018, next is the mid season v France.

https://rugbyleague.wales/wales-fixtures-and-results

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

Found a handy database - which does seem to be as current as possible.

Last match is in 2018, next is the mid season v France.

https://rugbyleague.wales/wales-fixtures-and-results

I can't remember if they had anything lined up specifically in the meantime. I seem to remember world cup warm up games being mooted but can't fully remember. 

Was 2020 supposed to host a European championship?

[Jughead]

4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I can't remember if they had anything lined up specifically in the meantime. I seem to remember world cup warm up games being mooted but can't fully remember. 

Was 2020 supposed to host a European championship?

They wanted an NHS Cup vs England at the back end of 2020 that didn’t go ahead. 

Wasn’t there a European Championship planned around the same time as England were due to play Australia?

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Jughead said:

They wanted an NHS Cup vs England at the back end of 2020 that didn’t go ahead. 

Wasn’t there a European Championship planned around the same time as England were due to play Australia?

That was my understanding.

[fighting irish]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

You are being a bit silly on this with respect BP. 

The aim doesn't need to be for everyone in the country to know about RL. Just like many don't understand the different forms of cricket, or know anything about netball, or understand the make-up of the United Rugby Union Championship etc. 

We don't need to set impossible aims so that we can fail and then moan about it. Having a a strong international game in England will absolutely grow the game and awareness of it. That just isn't in doubt. 

 

1 hour ago, RP London said:

Thats one mans experience.. I can give you the total opposite experience in 2 places I have worked at, including my present job and I was at a trade show in London the other week and overheard people talking about Super League (2 from Wales 1 from Norfolk) along with general chit chat I had with people on the stand and talking Rugby I would tell them my interest and that i played and we talked for a bit about the game, and they were from all over the place.. 

He's just a troll fella's, you are wasting your time. 

[Damien]

38 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I'm struggling to remember them being involved in anything since then. I know they've had a couple of women's matches but ...

Google not helping.

England have only played 1 international since then, against France last year, so I'm sure it is correct.

[Toby Chopra]

1 hour ago, Martyn Sadler said:

A key element of the deal is to create the conditions that will facilitate the development of clubs that might currently be viewed as small clubs to become much bigger.

Is there somewhere where such targets for the deal are laid out? That's a very specific aim. 

Also, what we consider 'small clubs' though is very much a moveable feast. It could mean WWR, it could mean Batley, it could mean Sheffield, or it even could mean Salford or Wakefield. "Growing" some of those would be far more worthwhile than growing others. 

I really hope we get some transparent targets soon, otherwise we won't  be able to hold either IMG, or SL/RFL to account.   

[gingerjon]

12 minutes ago, Damien said:

England have only played 1 international since then, against France last year, so I'm sure it is correct.

I see what you did there.

It is pitiful across the board, really. I'm not sure if we can be even said to have foundations at international level in the UK any more.

[Scubby]

4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I see what you did there.

It is pitiful across the board, really. I'm not sure if we can be even said to have foundations at international level in the UK any more.

There is not a single England fixture in the calendar for after the RLWC

[del capo]

I wonder if Martyn was privvy to  or has inside info on last weeks Board  meetings that signed off this IMG  deal?

IMG seem to be bringing the full force of their various companies ( 3000+ employees ) to the table.  Direct involvement is at Vice President level with impressive individual track records recently ( Euro Basketball League , World Table Tennis etc ).

I believe they will stand the costs for two years or until an additional net profit has been secured - and will thereafter take a slice. Win win situation.

First port of call is  competition restructure with as much consensus as possible . Minority views and vested interests  will however  not hinder them . It is to be across the game as a whole and starting at the top. A blue print I would expect to be available within months ( if not already ).

Both SLE and RFL have effectively recognised the challenges of getting into the really big world of major sport by creating RFL Commercial  to drive through change and involving true experts in that field .

My glass is certainly more half full than half empty..........

[fighting irish]

7 minutes ago, del capo said:

I wonder if Martyn was privvy to  or has inside info on last weeks Board  meetings that signed off this IMG  deal?

IMG seem to be bringing the full force of their various companies ( 3000+ employees ) to the table.  Direct involvement is at Vice President level with impressive individual track records recently ( Euro Basketball League , World Table Tennis etc ).

I believe they will stand the costs for two years or until an additional net profit has been secured - and will thereafter take a slice. Win win situation.

First port of call is  competition restructure with as much consensus as possible . Minority views and vested interests  will however  not hinder them . It is to be across the game as a whole and starting at the top. A blue print I would expect to be available within months ( if not already ).

Both SLE and RFL have effectively recognised the challenges of getting into the really big world of major sport by creating RFL Commercial  to drive through change and involving true experts in that field .

My glass is certainly more half full than half empty..........

You speak with such confident authority .... i wonder if you are privy to, or have inside information on last weeks Board meetings.....?

 

[Adelaide Tiger]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

There is no such market. This is made up in your head. 

Which non-RL fans are craving these games? 

Of course there is a market for international games between England and Wales or England v France.

However, it appears that RL fans - and maybe you are one of them - are so insecure about how a blow out score will be perceived by the existing RL fan and non-RL fan that it has totally stifled the opportunity to grow the international game in the NH.

In football you have for example WC Qualifiers such as England v San Marino or Liechtenstein or Andorra.  Should those game be scrapped because the result is a foregone conclusion?  How about RUWC where you could get England v Namibia or Russia or Canada?  Are those games such a colossal mis-match that the RFU ought to refuse to play it in case England score a ton plus in each game? What about the Cricket World Cup where England might play Netherlands or Scotland and skittle them within twenty overs - ok, I admit that that is unlikely due a shambolic England team at present.

The difference is that those sports are not embarrassed by blow-outs and celebrate teams of all abilities playing in the same competition and therefore establish their international competitions whilst we hide our game from fear of being ashamed by a mis-match.

[RP London]

12 minutes ago, del capo said:

I wonder if Martyn was privvy to  or has inside info on last weeks Board  meetings that signed off this IMG  deal?

IMG seem to be bringing the full force of their various companies ( 3000+ employees ) to the table.  Direct involvement is at Vice President level with impressive individual track records recently ( Euro Basketball League , World Table Tennis etc ).

I believe they will stand the costs for two years or until an additional net profit has been secured - and will thereafter take a slice. Win win situation.

First port of call is  competition restructure with as much consensus as possible . Minority views and vested interests  will however  not hinder them . It is to be across the game as a whole and starting at the top. A blue print I would expect to be available within months ( if not already ).

Both SLE and RFL have effectively recognised the challenges of getting into the really big world of major sport by creating RFL Commercial  to drive through change and involving true experts in that field .

My glass is certainly more half full than half empty..........

I do wonder if this is the RFL actually doing what is best for the game. They've realised that there are too many vested interests around and any reform that they are going to try will get caught up in the "design by committee" model that never works. By "outsourcing" the hard job of getting everyone to tow the line they are going to cut through this and actually get some proper change done.. 

I certainly hope this is the case and that we look back and think that this was actually a masterstroke by them

[Adelaide Tiger]

5 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

That's my reading as well. They way I see it, SLE has simply appointed an agency to do the things that it doesn't have the resource or expertise to do, in the same way that many other companies appoint agencies to take care of marketing, advertising, content, research, etc. 

My entire thought on this is that I sincerely hope that the clubs / RFL / SLE don't simply see this as "that's the marketing taken care of" - which I think was the sentiment behind the clamour for Eddie Hearn. Even though IMG have work to do, all stakeholders have to buy into what IMG want to do to make this a success, embrace what they want to implement and just as crucially, continue to invest in their own individual marketing and growth strategies. 

That is the best post I have seen so far.

[Dunbar]

1 hour ago, idrewthehaggis said:

i would suggest that IMG perhaps consider an annual challenge match between France and an England XIII.

Play it in southern France, around Bastille Day and maybe even more so near where Le Tour finished that day.

Stick on music, fireworks/crackers and a large bar and it transcends RL and becomes an event. 

Both codes does "events" very well. Whether it is our Magic Weekend or their Judgement Day thang. 

I may perhaps suggest that the Game's new friends, look at such vehicles to raise exposure and earn monies. Whether that be a raucous night cheering Les Bleus, Heritage round or Supporting Veterans.

I agree with all this but why not just have a  France vs. England test rather than an England XIII challenge match?

[Damien]

11 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Of course there is a market for international games between England and Wales or England v France.

However, it appears that RL fans - and maybe you are one of them - are so insecure about how a blow out score will be perceived by the existing RL fan and non-RL fan that it has totally stifled the opportunity to grow the international game in the NH.

In football you have for example WC Qualifiers such as England v San Marino or Liechtenstein or Andorra.  Should those game be scrapped because the result is a foregone conclusion?  How about RUWC where you could get England v Namibia or Russia or Canada?  Are those games such a colossal mis-match that the RFU ought to refuse to play it in case England score a ton plus in each game? What about the Cricket World Cup where England might play Netherlands or Scotland and skittle them within twenty overs - ok, I admit that that is unlikely due a shambolic England team at present.

The difference is that those sports are not embarrassed by blow-outs and celebrate teams of all abilities playing in the same competition and therefore establish their international competitions whilst we hide our game from fear of being ashamed by a mis-match.

You are comparing apples and pears here.

In Football, RU or Cricket they do not play these nations every year in a tournament, which is the suggestion. They actually play these kinds of nations very infrequently, unless they have to in a qualifier or World Cup. Its really not that different to RL.

[Jughead]

7 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Of course there is a market for international games between England and Wales or England v France.

However, it appears that RL fans - and maybe you are one of them - are so insecure about how a blow out score will be perceived by the existing RL fan and non-RL fan that it has totally stifled the opportunity to grow the international game in the NH.

In football you have for example WC Qualifiers such as England v San Marino or Liechtenstein or Andorra.  Should those game be scrapped because the result is a foregone conclusion?  How about RUWC where you could get England v Namibia or Russia or Canada?  Are those games such a colossal mis-match that the RFU ought to refuse to play it in case England score a ton plus in each game? What about the Cricket World Cup where England might play Netherlands or Scotland and skittle them within twenty overs - ok, I admit that that is unlikely due a shambolic England team at present.

The difference is that those sports are not embarrassed by blow-outs and celebrate teams of all abilities playing in the same competition and therefore establish their international competitions whilst we hide our game from fear of being ashamed by a mis-match.

Looking at past attendances, there is less interest in England football playing a San Marino, Andorra or the like than there is against bigger nations and it would appear that the same is true of Rugby League, looking at attendances of games against France in the past in non-tournament fixtures. 

[Toby Chopra]

38 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

No disrepect to Batley but if I´m a serious about growth it really isnt about growing Batley, it´s about establishing ourselves in bigger markets like Sheffield London and Manchester. 

Well, that's the key isn't it. Martyn suggested that WWR was such a club that could be targetted for growth. Personally, I'd put them more in Batley category than the Sheffield one, so which type of clubs benefit will determine how this strategy goes down in practice.  We really don't know which type it will be yet. (Or indeed, if growing certain clubs this really is a target.) 

 

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

So it never grows because we never play them so they never improve so it never grows. .. see the problem?

Yes last time England played Wales they pumped them.  That was 10 years ago.  Both games in Wales were held at same venue. The home international was held in Leigh.  No disrepect to Leigh but come on.  

Do it regularly so players know that committing to Wales gets them serious games.  Same for sponsors and commercially WRL have something to sell. 

The alternative is nothing because the NRL do not care about needing England anymore. 

You can make exactly the same points for Serbia. 

Growing RL isn't just playing internationals and everything works out nicely and grows. 

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

This is a genuine Q: when did Wales men last play a full international at all?

They couldn't play in 2019 because all of their stars were playing for Great Britain.