Wolves sign Josh McGuire

[LeytherRob]

30 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

Worth remembering that Charnley left Warrington on not the best of terms.

The RFL are essentially taking his word that McGuire said something offensive. Very peculiar and concerning.

Are they, were you at the tribunal?

[Old Frightful]

Reading elsewhere on the internet, it seems he said something extremely hurtful and personal about one of Josh Charnley's family members.

Absolutely inexcusable if so.

[Gavin Harrison]

Rugby league is well & truly lost here.

Ben Flower served a ban that saw him miss 10 Super League games.

Wright is out injured for Salford for weeks. Lees got one sixth of the ban McGuire has just been given.

Josh Charnely has suffered no harm whatsoever from whatever McGuire said. No other person has suffered any harm.

Madness.

 

 

[Snowys Backside]

57 minutes ago, Gavin Harrison said:

Rugby league is well & truly lost here.

Ben Flower served a ban that saw him miss 10 Super League games.

Wright is out injured for Salford for weeks. Lees got one sixth of the ban McGuire has just been given.

Josh Charnely has suffered no harm whatsoever from whatever McGuire said. No other person has suffered any harm.

Madness.

 

 

You don’t have to punch someone’s lights out to get an hefty ban. 
 

With his history and if you you are privy to what he has done, you would be scratching your head ! 
 

Its 2023 FFS ! 

[ELBOWSEYE]

4 hours ago, Snowys Backside said:

You don’t have to punch someone’s lights out to get an hefty ban. 
 

With his history and if you you are privy to what he has done, you would be scratching your head ! 
 

Its 2023 FFS ! 

Looks like he finished with his contract to be terminated in next few days, but even though it's 2023 you have to look at the way the RFL react to things( nothing to do with Leigh or Charnley) Cas fans homophobic chanting against Gareth Thomas (paltry fine, when the club could have forced to play behind closed doors) Ben Flower on our biggest stage (and this is shown regularly on sports dirtiest player's clips) in comparison received a light ban, Gil Dudson not far behind Flower received a 5 match ban(he really only served 4).

I know lots of posters on here are applauding the RFL stance ,but what happens when crowd chants cross the line and there will be plenty every week the referees parentage is questioned.

People should always be careful what they wish for,there are growing numbers of people out there who find it very easy to be offended against (and they don't have to be present). The only thing that provides some sort of protection is we are only a tiny sport and most people don't notice or care about RL.

Edited June 7, 2023 by ELBOWSEYE

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Looks like he finished with his contract to be terminated in next few days, but even though it's 2023 you have to look at the way the RFL react to things( nothing to do with Leigh or Charnley) Cas fans homophobic chanting against Gareth Thomas (paltry fine, when the club could have forced to play behind closed doors) Ben Flower on our biggest stage (and this is shown regularly on sports dirtiest player's clips) in comparison received a light ban, Gil Dudson not far behind Flower received a 5match ban(he really only served 4).

I know lots of posters on here are applauding to he RFL stance ,but what happens when crowd chants cross the line and there will be plenty every week the referees parentage is questioned.

People should always be careful what they wish for,there are growing numbers of people out there who find it very easy to be offended against (and they don't have to be present). The only thing that provides some sort of protection is we are only a tiny sport and most people don't notice or care about RL.

I don't think you can compare crowd and player actions when it comes to punishments. They are completely different and the punishments will be. That's the case in all sports.

Whilst I understand your point this is his second ban in a year for the same thing. His first ban was 7 games and he had to undo mandatory education, which obviously didn't work. Committing the same offence 4 months later has to be a more severe punishment than the first, hence the 12 games.

[ELBOWSEYE]

45 minutes ago, Damien said:

I don't think you can compare crowd and player actions when it comes to punishments. They are completely different and the punishments will be. That's the case in all sports.

Whilst I understand your point this is his second ban in a year for the same thing. His first ban was 7 games and he had to undo mandatory education, which obviously didn't work. Committing the same offence 4 months later has to be a more severe punishment than the first, hence the 12 games.

Plenty of posters on here have quoted perception of sports image,well crowds come into that.

[Old Frightful]

Ir people want to call a 12 game ban "madness", without any idea what he said and who it was directed at, then that's up to them. In this country you are allowed an opinion through free speech, no matter how extreme it might be.

And in my opinion, if what's been suggested elsewhere is correct, what McGuire said has to be just about the worst thing anyone could say to Josh Charnley or indeed any adult in his position.

Nearly 40 years ago, I was at a game at Post Office Road between Featherstone Rovers and Hull FC. Steve Norton was having his usual influential game and Hull were looking comfortable winners. For seemingly no reason whatsoever, Norton stated targeting one of the Fev players and had to be restrained by his team mates. The Hull coach at the time, Arthur Bunting, realised that Norton had lost control and ordered him to be substituted before he was sent off. After a lot of heated exchanges on the pitch, Norton eventually jogged off, straight down the tunnel, making an obscene gesture towards the Hull FC bench as he went.

It later materialised that the Fev player had made an appallingly hurtful comment to him about one of Norton's relatives, shall we say an entirely innocent and vulnerable member of his family. There was little wonder he lost control.

Something similar seems to have occurred here.

 

 

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Old Frightful said:

Ir people want to call a 12 game ban "madness", without any idea what he said and who it was directed at, then that's up to them. In this country you are allowed an opinion through free speech, no matter how extreme it might be.

And in my opinion, if what's been suggested elsewhere is correct, what McGuire said has to be just about the worst thing anyone could say to Josh Charnley or indeed any adult in his position.

Nearly 40 years ago, I was at a game at Post Office Road between Featherstone Rovers and Hull FC. Steve Norton was having his usual influential game and Hull were looking comfortable winners. For seemingly no reason whatsoever, Norton stated targeting one of the Fev players and had to be restrained by his team mates. The Hull coach at the time, Arthur Bunting, realised that Norton had lost control and ordered him to be substituted before he was sent off. After a lot of heated exchanges on the pitch, Norton eventually jogged off, straight down the tunnel, making an obscene gesture towards the Hull FC bench as he went.

It later materialised that the Fev player had made an appallingly hurtful comment to him about one of Norton's relatives, shall we say an entirely innocent and vulnerable member of his family. There was little wonder he lost control.

Something similar seems to have occurred here.

 

 

As I put earlier , abuse ( heat of the moment ) directed at another player will probably always happen , quite often using something physical , the examples I used were ' fat ' and ' bald ' while not very nice these tend to be acceptable , whereas using a racial reference ' black ' isn't acceptable , then of course using sexual or religious references similarly isn't , but when you go down the route of referencing a third party , it is a thought process that has gone into it , a deliberate action , just not acceptable 

If Mr McGuire doesn't understand this , he really has no place in the game in this country 

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

As I put earlier , abuse ( heat of the moment ) directed at another player will probably always happen , quite often using something physical , the examples I used were ' fat ' and ' bald ' while not very nice these tend to be acceptable , whereas using a racial reference ' black ' isn't acceptable , then of course using sexual or religious references similarly isn't , but when you go down the route of referencing a third party , it is a thought process that has gone into it , a deliberate action , just not acceptable 

If Mr McGuire doesn't understand this , he really has no place in the game in this country 

As you righy point out, sledging isn't banned, there are plenty of ways to get at players if yiu are that way inclined. But to go down a route which is racist, sexist, homophobic, etc it is right that a dim view is taken on this. 

I'm surprised it is even a debate in 2023 tbh. 

[LeeF]

8 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

12 match ban and the RFL don't even disclose what they've found him guilty of saying??

That's BS, in terms of transparency.

In the normal course of events that will be published either today or tomorrow depending upon whether there is an appeal. There is nothing to get irate about here unless you are McGuire or a fan of his and then it should be at the player for behaving how he did 

[Gavin Harrison]

5 hours ago, Snowys Backside said:

You don’t have to punch someone’s lights out to get an hefty ban. 
 

With his history and if you you are privy to what he has done, you would be scratching your head ! 
 

Its 2023 FFS ! 

Yes. It is 2023. 

You really should be fearful of what you are actually supporting here. Not just in terms of rugby league.

McGuire's history is what exactly, prior to arriving at Warrington?

A 12 match ban for words. Think about that.

 

[RP London]

9 hours ago, Damien said:

So he's been banned for a total of 19 games so far this season. One expensive signing for Warrington.

and it says he's already undertaken mandatory education after the last one! 

[RP London]

7 hours ago, Gavin Harrison said:

Rugby league is well & truly lost here.

Ben Flower served a ban that saw him miss 10 Super League games.

Wright is out injured for Salford for weeks. Lees got one sixth of the ban McGuire has just been given.

Josh Charnely has suffered no harm whatsoever from whatever McGuire said. No other person has suffered any harm.

Madness.

 

 

as has been said before you cannot compare offences like that.. This is about the game as a whole and allowing prejudice of players come through to alienate possible sections of the community from becoming involved in the game. Agree with that, and the harshness or not but thats why it is judged on a different level. Lets also remember its not his first offence and he has also been in mandatory education and hes still coming out with this nonsense.. 

[Old Frightful]

11 minutes ago, Gavin Harrison said:

A 12 match ban for words. Think about that.

He's lucky he didn't get stretchered off.

[Dave T]

18 minutes ago, Gavin Harrison said:

Yes. It is 2023. 

You really should be fearful of what you are actually supporting here. Not just in terms of rugby league.

McGuire's history is what exactly, prior to arriving at Warrington?

A 12 match ban for words. Think about that.

 

None of this is new. We've seen players receive hefty bans before for racism, homophobia - we've seen clubs fined and banned for racist, sexist, homophobic abuse. We see in other sports, particularly around Europe real problems with fan racist abuse. 

All just 'words'. 

The reason Mcguire has an unprecedented 12 matches is because he had already been done once in the first half of the season. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by Dave T

[RP London]

1 hour ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Looks like he finished with his contract to be terminated in next few days, but even though it's 2023 you have to look at the way the RFL react to things( nothing to do with Leigh or Charnley) Cas fans homophobic chanting against Gareth Thomas (paltry fine, when the club could have forced to play behind closed doors) Ben Flower on our biggest stage (and this is shown regularly on sports dirtiest player's clips) in comparison received a light ban, Gil Dudson not far behind Flower received a 5 match ban(he really only served 4).

I know lots of posters on here are applauding the RFL stance ,but what happens when crowd chants cross the line and there will be plenty every week the referees parentage is questioned.

People should always be careful what they wish for,there are growing numbers of people out there who find it very easy to be offended against (and they don't have to be present). The only thing that provides some sort of protection is we are only a tiny sport and most people don't notice or care about RL.

I think there was a lot of learning very fast around Gareth Thomas and I dont think they got it right initially. Harsh almost draconian bans should be used on this type of thing because the problem is that some people do find it funny, they actually dont understand that the old adage of "sticks and stones may break my bones but word will never harm me" is absolute garbage..

Anyone who says things like "hurty words" has obviously not been on the end of sustained months and years of hurtful things being said to them as otherwise they might just understand it. Hurty words said in jest and the reaction of joviality and acceptance they can get from those around you embolden a certain type of people to then step it up into more than just words and there is history that proves this within racism, homophobia and all the prejudices we find ourselves with. Stamp it out and embarrass those people and show them they have no place with those attitudes in the game, we call ourselves a family but families dont act like that. 

That said I also think that Ben Flower was treated too leniently (I dont think he would now).. as it was downright thuggery. I can see why some mistaken tackles that go high are punished less, there is a risk you take walking onto the pitch etc. But anything that is downright thuggery or this pre planned prejudice language needs to just be got rid of and if that player cant then fine we dont need them, we really really dont.

 

[GUBRATS]

6 minutes ago, RP London said:

as has been said before you cannot compare offences like that.. This is about the game as a whole and allowing prejudice of players come through to alienate possible sections of the community from becoming involved in the game. Agree with that, and the harshness or not but thats why it is judged on a different level. Lets also remember its not his first offence and he has also been in mandatory education and hes still coming out with this nonsense.. 

Anybody who's lived ' down under ' will be aware of different cultural things that are acceptable in different places , so his first offence can to a degree be put down to that , but to essentially repeat the offence literally a few weeks after serving a significant ban for it really doesn't paint a good picture going forward , for everybody concerned including himself a parting of ways is probably the best outcome 

Maybe the publicity this will receive in Australia will make other players be aware of what is and isn't acceptable in the sport in the UK , and result in other players of a similar mindset staying at home 

[Spidey]

7 hours ago, Gavin Harrison said:

Rugby league is well & truly lost here.

Ben Flower served a ban that saw him miss 10 Super League games.

Wright is out injured for Salford for weeks. Lees got one sixth of the ban McGuire has just been given.

Josh Charnely has suffered no harm whatsoever from whatever McGuire said. No other person has suffered any harm.

Madness.

 

 

I think your definition of harm compared to most is different

[RP London]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Anybody who's lived ' down under ' will be aware of different cultural things that are acceptable in different places , so his first offence can to a degree be put down to that , but to essentially repeat the offence literally a few weeks after serving a significant ban for it really doesn't paint a good picture going forward , for everybody concerned including himself a parting of ways is probably the best outcome 

Maybe the publicity this will receive in Australia will make other players be aware of what is and isn't acceptable in the sport in the UK , and result in other players of a similar mindset staying at home 

totally see that.. equally though how many aussies, kiwis etc come over and manage not to behave like this though.. While there may be a cultural thing there is also the personal thing which I think is showing more and more. 

For the sake of the club I think he needs to go... they really need to get a new prop now too with Mikalele already gone leaving a big void.

[Spidey]

9 minutes ago, Old Frightful said:

He's lucky he didn't get stretchered off.

Quite - I think he's got off lightly - if this happened on "the street" he may have had a stay in hospital

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I think your definition of harm compared to most is different

If someone insulted a member of your family to your face in the pub , what would be your reaction ? 

[Spidey]

38 minutes ago, Dave T said:

As you righy point out, sledging isn't banned, there are plenty of ways to get at players if yiu are that way inclined. But to go down a route which is racist, sexist, homophobic, etc it is right that a dim view is taken on this. 

I'm surprised it is even a debate in 2023 tbh. 

I thought all this was sorted out in the 90s as what was acceptable or not - hate mongers have pushed their agenda well and putting things up for debate which really should not be

[Dunbar]

20 minutes ago, Gavin Harrison said:

Yes. It is 2023. 

You really should be fearful of what you are actually supporting here. Not just in terms of rugby league.

McGuire's history is what exactly, prior to arriving at Warrington?

A 12 match ban for words. Think about that.

 

Without broadening the conversation too much, I have some reservations about how freedom of speech is being a little suppressed - if not legislatively, then through the weight of some very vocal voices.

But, and here is the key thing, surely the fight for free expression is not the fight to abuse people and throw insults and hateful language around without consequences.  If that is the fight you want to win then very few will be on your side and certainly not me.

I am pleased that the disciplinary panel has taken such a hard stand on this.  One, because of what happened just a few months ago (for which McGuire showed no remorse whatsoever) and second, because of what appears to be the extremely personal and directed nature of the language used.

If this is the end of McGuire in the UK game then I won’t be losing any sleep over it.  Good riddance to him.

[Spidey]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

If someone insulted a member of your family to your face in the pub , what would be your reaction ? 

That's my point