iangidds Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 I have just been reading about the RU English premiership clubs difficulties in paying back their loans, remind me did RL clubs get direct loans or was it the Rfl ? Who is liable for these loans ? I thought these would be gifts rather than loans from the Tory party but it seems Exeter took 2 covid loans from banks as well as the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatmichaelsays Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 (edited) This provides some detail: https://www.rugby-league.com/article/56743/government-backing-for-rugby-league-in-coronavirus-crisis. These were always loans as far as I recall, but the RFL were quick to get their point across to the government given that they relied heavily on the "Workington Man" thing, and RL was one of the first sports to get any kind of support. It was one thing Rimmer did do well during his tenure. It makes out that the RFL secured the loans from HM Govt, and it was then on the respective clubs to apply to the RFL (presumably putting a business case together). Whether the clubs are "jointly and equally liable" or whether it is the RFL who is liable to HM Govt (and it being on them to persue any non-paying clubs) is probably not in the public domain. Edited December 2, 2022 by whatmichaelsays 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iangidds Posted December 2, 2022 Author Share Posted December 2, 2022 35 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said: This provides some detail: https://www.rugby-league.com/article/56743/government-backing-for-rugby-league-in-coronavirus-crisis. These were always loans as far as I recall, but the RFL were quick to get their point across to the government given that they relied heavily on the "Workington Man" thing, and RL was one of the first sports to get any kind of support. It was one thing Rimmer did do well during his tenure. It makes out that the RFL secured the loans from HM Govt, and it was then on the respective clubs to apply to the RFL (presumably putting a business case together). Whether the clubs are "jointly and equally liable" or whether it is the RFL who is liable to HM Govt (and it being on them to persue any non-paying clubs) is probably not in the public domain. Ok thanks , seems like the RFU boys were taking large loans from the bank and Exeter who i thought were the flagshiip of how to run a RU club have liabilities of around 30 million pounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 Hard to say for sure, but it does look like some RL clubs took out Bounceback loans from what you can glean from their accounts. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The storm Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 1 hour ago, iangidds said: I have just been reading about the RU English premiership clubs difficulties in paying back their loans, remind me did RL clubs get direct loans or was it the Rfl ? Who is liable for these loans ? I thought these would be gifts rather than loans from the Tory party but it seems Exeter took 2 covid loans from banks as well as the government. Some union clubs are up to 70 million in debt Playing billy big ###### with 5500 fans does not work 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iangidds Posted December 2, 2022 Author Share Posted December 2, 2022 2 hours ago, The storm said: Some union clubs are up to 70 million in debt Playing billy big ###### with 5500 fans does not work Astonishing amounts of debt , long may it continue 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLANTISMAN Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 RU premiership clubs are in total s--t and its far worse than anyone on here realises. The RU premiership is a complete financial basket case with no historic fan base (Just a fashion one over the last 20 years) as monty python said its a DEAD PARROT:) There has never been a better time for outside investment in Rugby League. Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Griff said: Hard to say for sure, but it does look like some RL clubs took out Bounceback loans from what you can glean from their accounts. From memory, which may be inaccurate, the amounts were a fraction of the money demanded (and got) by RU clubs. Edited December 2, 2022 by Futtocks Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweaty craiq Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 7 hours ago, iangidds said: I have just been reading about the RU English premiership clubs difficulties in paying back their loans, remind me did RL clubs get direct loans or was it the Rfl ? Who is liable for these loans ? I thought these would be gifts rather than loans from the Tory party but it seems Exeter took 2 covid loans from banks as well as the government. You thought loans were gifts, can you loan me your house please Any club who took one should be deducted central funds to pay it back 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 9 hours ago, Futtocks said: From memory, which may be inaccurate, the amounts were a fraction of the money demanded (and got) by RU clubs. We're posting about different things here. Bounceback loans (or BBLs) were available to all businesses. 1 "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispmartha Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 19 minutes ago, Griff said: We're posting about different things here. Bounceback loans (or BBLs) were available to all businesses. And you could only get £50k max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Shepherd Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 (edited) 19 hours ago, Griff said: Hard to say for sure, but it does look like some RL clubs took out Bounceback loans from what you can glean from their accounts. BBL are a max of £50,000 though, in the grand scheme of things that's pocket change. Very cheap money really. Lots of folk in my trade (me included) took them not to survive, but to fund future investment. Way, way cheaper than a normal bank loan. Edited December 3, 2022 by David Shepherd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispmartha Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 29 minutes ago, David Shepherd said: BBL are a max of £50,000 though, in the grand scheme of things that's pocket change. Very cheap money really. Lots of folk in my trade (me included) took them not to survive, but to fund future investment. Way, way cheaper than a normal bank loan. I took one out, it was a no brainer, no personal guarantee and they didn’t even want proof of turnover. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midlands hobo Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 19 hours ago, The storm said: Some union clubs are up to 70 million in debt Playing billy big ###### with 5500 fans does not work The recent house of commons hearings listed premier rugby debts including Worcester as 500million. Of which Exeter had the lowest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iangidds Posted December 3, 2022 Author Share Posted December 3, 2022 3 hours ago, Midlands hobo said: The recent house of commons hearings listed premier rugby debts including Worcester as 500million. Of which Exeter had the lowest. Wow thats huge debt, i remember a great quote when Union went professional "You can make a small fortune from rugby as long as you start with a big one " seems very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie tries Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 The RU loans at Wasps and Worcester must be paid back - if clubs vanish - by RFU. Shameful the took mega Buicks despite knowing they were doing to the wall. Credits the RFL for keeping our debt down…. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DACS Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 I have to say I was a bit worried about the COVID loans ending up causing more problems than they solved, but it seems (touch wood) that RL clubs have generally managed them OK? Seems that a lot of RU folks got deluded into thinking club RU was going to be huge just because international RU is. Its the money from that side of things that no doubt enabled these clubs to borrow so much. Utterly bonkers that some clubs were still seeking salary cap increases in a season when two clubs have gone bust. Just goes to show we're not the only sport where narrow-minded club at all costs focus is a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 7 hours ago, DACS said: I have to say I was a bit worried about the COVID loans ending up causing more problems than they solved, but it seems (touch wood) that RL clubs have generally managed them OK? Most clubs outside Superleague seem to have done well financially in the 2020 season. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Prophet Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 Would love to see another established club go to the wall. Sale going bust would be a dream come true. Same for a smaller London club like Irish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispmartha Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 10 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said: Would love to see another established club go to the wall. Sale going bust would be a dream come true. Same for a smaller London club like Irish. bit harsh when its peoples livelihoods on the line 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 On 03/12/2022 at 13:10, Chrispmartha said: I took one out, it was a no brainer, no personal guarantee and they didn’t even want proof of turnover. So how is it payed back? Is there a time scale involved or a percentage of profits perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispmartha Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: So how is it payed back? Is there a time scale involved or a percentage of profits perhaps? It’s paid back like any other loan by a set monthly payment over 6 or 10 years, first year you didn’t have to make any payments but if you did they were interest free. if you go bust and can’t pay, the government picks up the tab. Edited December 5, 2022 by Chrispmartha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Chrispmartha said: bit harsh when its peoples livelihoods on the line They are not on the line, though. There are jobs galore over the M60 at the Trafford Centre. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midlands hobo Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 Long commute from London Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midlands hobo Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 8 hours ago, Sports Prophet said: Would love to see another established club go to the wall. Sale going bust would be a dream come true. Same for a smaller London club like Irish. Irish, Bristol and Leicester are all pretty dubious in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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