West Wales

[sgorpioncaerdyddrob]

37 minutes ago, crusadin_photoman said:

No idea, that's between him and the club. In his one game against Widnes he didnt play well but didnt play badly either it's more that he wasnt fully fit and of course had never played a game of RL. I believe he decided to concentrate on his pub business.

 

We all know it would have been naff all, otherwise Gav would have played more than that one game. He hasn't been fit or interested in playing any rugby for years and I called that out at the time he signed. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by sgorpioncaerdyddrob

[Gomersall]

1 hour ago, crusadin_photoman said:

Whilst that is historically correct it is no longer the case at club level. Many RU clubs are the village social hub and all are welcomed. 

It’s hard to be hypocritical when you’re now doing what you were ostracising others for.

[crusadin_photoman]

9 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

It’s hard to be hypocritical when you’re now doing what you were ostracising others for.

I didn't grow up in Wales nor did I grow up watching either code of rugby. It's not for me to apologise for the past, instead we must learn from it and ensure it doesn't happen again. 

[Hemel Rugby League]

Even though RU players were threatened by a RFU ban if they participated in RL at any level, this did not stop RU community players participating in RL.

During the 1980's community RL boomed in London, the South West and Wales on the back of RU players who played union on Saturdays and League on Sundays

There were three Divisons of open age RL in London and MASWALA were outstanding for participation in their area. 

Over the decades there has been little difficulty in the South in getting people to play RL. The big difficulty has been in getting them to buy into RL as their first choice sport and to step up to ensure the continuation of clubs for future generations

[The Lad]

It's a sad state of affairs, the raiders attracted a dedicated fanbase and was growing the game. But in the end results matter and they didn't win games. The RFL needs to reevaluate what it wants, expansion hasn't worked for the Raiders and for a dozen other teams.

[Gomersall]

9 hours ago, The Lad said:

It's a sad state of affairs, the raiders attracted a dedicated fanbase and was growing the game. But in the end results matter and they didn't win games. The RFL needs to reevaluate what it wants, expansion hasn't worked for the Raiders and for a dozen other teams.

Because there isn’t an expansion policy. It’s whoever wants to bankroll a team gets a place in the league. IMG want to push London. If the RFL listen to IMG then do it properly or don’t do it at all. Investment is required. Nothing less will do. Words are cheap. This post proves that.

[JM2010]

New clubs entering League 1 need to fulfill pre determined criteria like a franchising system.

There needs to be a minimum amount of junior clubs, schools program, finances, junior pathways, marketing, promotion etc. otherwise they'll just keep struggling along at the bottom until they just pull out like has happened so many times

[Yakstorm]

It's sad to see the Raiders wind up, however unfortunately it is no surprise. 

When the Raiders took over the license, senior figures in the club commented multiple times that they were unaware how much a step up it would be to run an L1 club and unfortunately despite good intentions and best efforts, the club never got to a place where anyone could call them a professionally run club.

This may not have mattered as much if they were based in the heartlands, but with such a shallow pool of local talent and being just too far away (and not attractive enough) for even the best WRL players to want to play for, it was going to be an extremely difficult task.

It's a shame, because it's not like the club didn't try and even despite its results, it still produced international players. Southern Wales needs a club in the pyramid, ideally closer to Cardiff, so I do hope there is someway for the license to stay in the area.

Edited December 25, 2022 by Yakstorm

[footy_fan_nrl]

they should be replaced by a team from a country where the game is actually developing, like Serbia or Norway ect. 

[crusadin_photoman]

2 hours ago, footy_fan_nrl said:

they should be replaced by a team from a country where the game is actually developing, like Serbia or Norway ect. 

I admire that enthusiasm but if deep pockets are needed for a team from this country it would take a very wealthy, brave individual to consider that move. Flight costs would be horrendous plus a coach to get to the grounds, plus wages, plus kit costs equals a huge investment.

 

[sgorpioncaerdyddrob]

On 23/12/2022 at 12:07, Kirmonds pouch said:

So what money is this then! Honest to god it's a fantasy world on here. The 12 SL clubs have to produce a pro comp comparable to RU and of course football. To do this they receive around 1.5 million in central funding, pin money to most other sport. You call it blinkered, I call it a game without a pot to pee in. You even say it yourself, 'You can't do anything without money'. 

Maybe trying to expand the game geographically, economically by bringing in people with business acumen from outside, rather than administration from a succession of rank amateurs like Rimmer, negotiating a stronger media revenue, a strong competitive international game with homegrown players, would provide the sort of revenue required to fund this, rather than just saying 'this is a northern game and this is how it's always been done. These outsiders don't know what they're on about',

maybe, just maybe if the product is that good, people with this money will sit up and take notice!! Eddie Hearn was scared off RL despite initial interest and look what him and his father did for darts. Time to evolve. 

[BadlyOverdrawnBoy]

7 hours ago, footy_fan_nrl said:

they should be replaced by a team from a country where the game is actually developing, like Serbia or Norway ect. 

Norway? Are you kidding? Do you know the price of a pint there? 

https://thenorwayguide.com/cost-of-beer/

There's norway they'd get any away fans.

[Pie tries]

On 24/12/2022 at 18:16, Pigeon Lofter said:

RU clubs up and down the country got enormous Government funding from the then Sports Council, whose motto was "Sport For All". All, of course unless you played any kind of League, then you were banned for life from playing RU or even being on their facilities or in their clubhouses.  The Sports Council financing help build Union clubhouses the length and breadth of the nation under the fake presumption that it was Sport for All when it in fact was sport for everyone except Rugby League players. American gridiron players were welcomed, as were professional boxers, wrestlers, bodybuilders, or any other sportsmen or athletes but not anyone who had played RL above a schoolboy level as it would taint their sport. They got away with that perverse apartheid for years and in many cases that attitude still exists, you only have to peruse the BBC HYS comments on RU to see the bigotry that prevails to this day among the RahRah fraternity.

Spot on. 
This post should hang in the RFL as a reminder…

RU - the sport that ran (and got away with) a whites only policy - totally abused its position through its contacts and influence.
 

Many wrongs that have never be made right, this is the reason we should push hard for funding…

[Bearman]

10 hours ago, footy_fan_nrl said:

they should be replaced by a team from a country where the game is actually developing, like Serbia or Norway ect. 

Quite right.

And even better, I can introduce you the very man at the RFL who will take your cheque to pay for it. As a further plus I can tell you that are the only one in the queue of applicants.

[Hello]

Many on here will be glad of this as an "I told you expansion doesn't work" message.  For sure, West Wales were a mess in many ways but this example will support that large group of RL fans who will gleefully say "I told you so, we should never try and set up a new team outside of our small hearlands area".  Meanwhile, Morocco just got to the semi finals of the football world cup (do I need to tell you the attendances and viewing figures of football across the globe) whilst Japan got to the quarter finals of the last union world cup, watched by a cumulative figure of 425 million Japanese viewers for that world cup, and they are basically what people still think of as an expansion nation.  Expansion can work really well for any good sport.  The operative word hers is "can" because it's never going to happen in RL because so many of the fans and people in power don't want it to expand.  What they don't seem to see is that if you don't expand, then the VERY BEST you can hope for is to stand still, but that's never going to happen and in a best case scenario your sport will slowly but surely disappear.  Worst case scenario, decline rapidly.  

[OriginalMrC]

12 hours ago, JM2010 said:

New clubs entering League 1 need to fulfill pre determined criteria like a franchising system.

There needs to be a minimum amount of junior clubs, schools program, finances, junior pathways, marketing, promotion etc. otherwise they'll just keep struggling along at the bottom until they just pull out like has happened so many times

That's all well and good but you are asking someone to put their hand in their pockets to do this. Not only that most clubs in the professional game would fail on these criteria. 

[David Dockhouse Host]

21 hours ago, JM2010 said:

New clubs entering League 1 need to fulfill pre determined criteria like a franchising system.

There needs to be a minimum amount of junior clubs, schools program, finances, junior pathways, marketing, promotion etc. otherwise they'll just keep struggling along at the bottom until they just pull out like has happened so many times

This is true, but can you get people excited about a new sport if there's no professional team?

The eternal question, is it top level first or bottom up?

I think the wish list would be both, but the money and resource required to deliver this over a long sustained period is beyond many sports.

Sadly we have to try different methods, none have worked professionally sadly.

I think new markets can now only be reached by the other forms of the sport, womens, wheelchair etc.

Money wise we struggle to service the core market, so reluctantly I feel we have to secure what we do have in SL and championship and somehow support L1 whilst using other forms to spread the sport.

[langpark]

20 hours ago, footy_fan_nrl said:

they should be replaced by a team from a country where the game is actually developing, like Serbia or Norway ect. 

I do understand your train of thought, however, that will never be feasible in our lifetimes. Then, even if it were, you would have to question whether it is the wisest way to spend money or not. 

For example, to get a team from mainland Europe over to England to play a match, will probably cost around £10k each time. If you multiply that by the 15 or so times they need to travel over for matches, then that is 150k (yes I am probably on the conservative side with these estimates). I would argue that the £150k could be better spent/invested in other areas such as local development officers in order to boost the long-term playing numbers. 

 

[Gomersall]

21 hours ago, Yakstorm said:

It's sad to see the Raiders wind up, however unfortunately it is no surprise. 

When the Raiders took over the license, senior figures in the club commented multiple times that they were unaware how much a step up it would be to run an L1 club and unfortunately despite good intentions and best efforts, the club never got to a place where anyone could call them a professionally run club.

This may not have mattered as much if they were based in the heartlands, but with such a shallow pool of local talent and being just too far away (and not attractive enough) for even the best WRL players to want to play for, it was going to be an extremely difficult task.

It's a shame, because it's not like the club didn't try and even despite its results, it still produced international players. Southern Wales needs a club in the pyramid, ideally closer to Cardiff, so I do hope there is someway for the license to stay in the area.

There is no licence.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

42 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

There is no licence.

How does it work now then?

[Jughead]

47 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

How does it work now then?

It’s a membership, not a licence. No idea if West Wales’ is now vacant/for sale/they’re keeping it to put on the wall of the owner’s new bar. 

[Oxford]

On 24/12/2022 at 17:21, Jughead said:

You’re doing exactly that. The presence of Welsh players (or players of almost any nation) within the top five clubs in the northern hemisphere being used as a stick to do something down is a particularly strange hill to choose to die on.

Wales, as a result of Saints picking up Regan Grace as a kid and Wigan picking up Flower and Dudson after a couple of years at Crusaders, probably has Wales in the top four nations of Super League winners in the last ten years. More of that can only be a good thing.

Sorry it took me a while to answer as my laptop seems to have taken a dislike to Total.

There is little point in discussing stuff if you're going to make accusations like that Jugs, I'm not doing Wales down in any way to say who the beneficiaries of certain actions might be.

There is a world of difference between being involved in development in Wales and picking off better players irrespective of the implications for Wales as an international side.

Arguing this as the standard bearing approach to international redemption is a bit limited and in all probability far from the huge player production line you seem to think it is or will be.

The top sides production lines are based on an awful lot of stuff that has little or nothing to do with the game's progress, nor spreading around talent and does involve a great deal of wasteage and lost talent.

More Welsh and Welsh heritage players can, as you point out, only be a good thing but that as a means in itself will not provide what you say it will.

 

[Gomersall]

1 hour ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

How does it work now then?

I don’t think it has it ever been a licence system? Certainly not at L1 level. Most clubs don’t have the proverbial pot let alone money to buy a licence.

[Barley Mow]

7 hours ago, Gomersall said:

I don’t think it has it ever been a licence system? Certainly not at L1 level. Most clubs don’t have the proverbial pot let alone money to buy a licence.

It's just a straightforward membership system. The RFL is like a member's club, all 35 (now 34) pro/semi-pro clubs being full members of the RFL.

For some reason, Hemel's membership rights were allowed to be transferred to Ottawa and then on to Cornwall.

That seems to be a one off, I'm not aware of membership rights being transferred like that in any other case - Blackpool/Springfield/Chorley/Trafford and Highfield/London/Liverpool/Huyton/Runcorn/Prescot were slightly different as they were recognised as single clubs relocating and changing name.

Edited December 26, 2022 by Barley Mow
Had accidentally included the French clubs in the number of RFL full members

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

2 hours ago, Gomersall said:

I don’t think it has it ever been a licence system? Certainly not at L1 level. Most clubs don’t have the proverbial pot let alone money to buy a licence.

Didn't Ottawa buy Hemel's license and it then got used for Cornwall ?