NRL Rules Out Pride Round For 2023

[The Masked Poster]

18 hours ago, gingerjon said:

The past tense is the important thing.

From 2020:

"Only five black players have represented England since 2011; in the same period, 12 have been capped by their union counterparts. In the past three years, 16 black players have played for England’s senior men’s football team. “Football are in the communities doing regular work and rugby league isn’t,” Simmons says. “Until you have proper pathways at the bottom, the numbers at the top will never change.”

There is a feeling of the black community being worryingly underrepresented in other areas, too. The professional game has one black head coach – London Skolars’ Jermaine Coleman, who will also take charge of Jamaica at the 2021 World Cup – and there is not a single black chief executive or administrator. “You don’t need an opinion – the facts speak for themselves,” says Leon Pryce, the former Great Britain international who shares Robinson’s views."

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/oct/10/black-people-are-hurting-british-rugby-league-inclusivity-crisis

The Negro Leagues, by the way, are now fully integrated into the major league baseball records. Far, far, far too late and they should never have had to exist but, thankfully, I don't see too many people in baseball (a deeply, deeply conservative sport in the US) going, "Well, we had Jackie Robinson before college football had black players so I don't think we need to do anything now. How about we send messages to each other saying how great we were."

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by The Masked Poster

[gingerjon]

34 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

Because under this thinking 

Thinking that exists entirely in your own head.

[The Masked Poster]

9 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Thinking that exists entirely in your own head.

..

Edited March 17, 2023 by The Masked Poster

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

You mean the one that you actively support and are saying is the answer ? At least stand by your principles. 

So you just need to find a quote from me saying that we should fast track black players into the England squad.

Off you go.

[The Masked Poster]

8 hours ago, gingerjon said:

So you just need to find a quote from me saying that we should fast track black players into the England squad.

Off you go.

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by The Masked Poster

[Dunbar]

The whole field of race, identity and inclusion is so immeasurably complex at the moment.  More complex than ever before because even people who have the same goals disagree passionately about how to achieve them.

What I will say on the subject of a Pride round in the NRL specifically though is this.

We all watch on with wonder and say what a marvellous spectacle it is when the PI Nations say their communal prayers before a match as a team or together with the opposition at the end.  We are full of praise for their spirit and their sense of identity. 

But it is that very identity as a Christian culture that means the Pride round will not be played.  Let's not kid ourselves that the only reason why it will not be considered is the large number of players (Manly players times 17) who will refuse to play if they are asked to wear a symbol representing something they don't support.

Whatever deep rooted beliefs they may genuinely hold, I find any form of intolerance or lack of acceptance a huge shame and something that as a species we have to evolve away from.

And, to be absolutely clear, I don't blame the players for their Christian beliefs, I blame Christianity (in this specific context, and all religions in general) for how they corrupt human decency. 

[hw88]

7 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

Of course voting for or joining the conservative party is a choice, it’s a ridiculous comparison to make.

How are you ‘constantly’ hearing about pride?

No it isn't. I suspect many people on this board vote Labour and only will ever vote Labour. Why is that? I suspect it is because something deep in their brain is telling them it is the right thing to do. Similarly something deep within a gay persons brain is attracting them to people of the same sex. The same would apply to straight people too.

[The Masked Poster]

.

Edited March 17, 2023 by The Masked Poster

[Dave T]

5 hours ago, Dunbar said:

The whole field of race, identity and inclusion is so immeasurably complex at the moment.  More complex than ever before because even people who have the same goals disagree passionately about how to achieve them.

What I will say on the subject of a Pride round in the NRL specifically though is this.

We all watch on with wonder and say what a marvellous spectacle it is when the PI Nations say their communal prayers before a match as a team or together with the opposition at the end.  We are full of praise for their spirit and their sense of identity. 

But it is that very identity as a Christian culture that means the Pride round will not be played.  Let's not kid ourselves that the only reason why it will not be considered is the large number of players (Manly players times 17) who will refuse to play if they are asked to wear a symbol representing something they don't support.

Whatever deep rooted beliefs they may genuinely hold, I find any form of intolerance or lack of acceptance a huge shame and something that as a species we have to evolve away from.

And, to be absolutely clear, I don't blame the players for their Christian beliefs, I blame Christianity (in this specific context, and all religions in general) for how they corrupt human decency. 

The religion point is interesting. There is far more religion on an RL field than things about LGBTQ+ for example. 

I must admit to beibg a touch uncomfortable about the reaction to the Fiji hymn because of some of the things you raise above. 

[Chrispmartha]

4 hours ago, hw88 said:

No it isn't. I suspect many people on this board vote Labour and only will ever vote Labour. Why is that? I suspect it is because something deep in their brain is telling them it is the right thing to do. Similarly something deep within a gay persons brain is attracting them to people of the same sex. The same would apply to straight people too.

Absolute rubbish. To compare the two things is just daft.

Nobody is born a supporter of a political party.

[Chrispmartha]

58 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

The notion that people can ignore their basic feelings is a little odd. Pretty much everyone on this board, with a few exceptions, is either left wing or very left wing. How would they react to being told to ignore their instincts and vote conservative? They'd tell you to FO, quite rightly. 

 

Its such a stupid comparison.

you are not born left or right wing.

[Oxford]

10 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

you are not born left or right wing.

I can't comment on this as I'm banned from politics on the forum but does this turn is the thread mean  the NRL  have decided not to have a centrist round then?

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by Oxford

[The Masked Poster]

1 hour ago, Chrispmartha said:

Its such a stupid comparison.

you are not born left or right wing.

)

Edited March 17, 2023 by The Masked Poster

[hw88]

9 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

Its such a stupid comparison.

you are not born left or right wing.

Correct, but what I am saying is that some people are predisposed to be left leaning or right leaning. We all have the same information yet some people choose to interpret it one way and others another. Take the asylum seeker situation for instance, we all know they are in a desperate situation yet some people want to welcome them here while others do not. Presumably something in our brains is guiding our decision.

[Chrispmartha]

2 minutes ago, hw88 said:

Correct, but what I am saying is that some people are predisposed to be left leaning or right leaning. We all have the same information yet some people choose to interpret it one way and others another. Take the asylum seeker situation for instance, we all know they are in a desperate situation yet some people want to welcome them here while others do not. Presumably something in our brains is guiding our decision.

Of course it’s something in the brain but things like wanting refugees here or your political leanings are not inherent, those views will be formed from a lot of things, upbringing, surroundings, the media you consume etc etc.

That is not the case with your sexuality.

[Copa]

55 minutes ago, hw88 said:

Correct, but what I am saying is that some people are predisposed to be left leaning or right leaning.

I doubt it. In the US even the left leaning (according to US standards) democrats seem to have things in common with mainstream Australian conservatives.

If people were predisposed you’d think politics in many democratic countries would be similar across the board, but that isn’t the case.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Copa

[David Shepherd]

16 hours ago, Dunbar said:

And, to be absolutely clear, I don't blame the players for their Christian beliefs, I blame Christianity (in this specific context, and all religions in general) for how they corrupt human decency. 

Fully agree regarding religion. It really is the root of all evil.  As you say, not the believer's fault. It's religion that is corrupt.

Interesting though that one religion in particular seems to get a free pass on LGBT issues. As an example, one of the candidates up in Scotland skipped the equal marriage vote under pressure from his religious community. I haven't heard a word of criticism. Yet the very Christian DUP as another example are quite rightly lambasted for their 19th century view of the issue.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

11 hours ago, Dave T said:

 

I must admit to beibg a touch uncomfortable about the reaction to the Fiji hymn because of some of the things you raise above. 

Does it have some dodgy lyrics or something (genuine Q)

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

54 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

Fully agree regarding religion. It really is the root of all evil.  As you say, not the believer's fault. It's religion that is corrupt.

 

I'm not religious but I'd say there is plenty of good things about it too ....many will argue our whole secular morality in the west at least is Christian based

 

[Tommygilf]

9 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I'm not religious but I'd say there is plenty of good things about it too ....many will argue our whole secular morality in the west at least is Christian based

 

Indeed. Without Christianity, atheism and secularism as we see it in the West does not exist. 

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, Copa said:

If people were predisposed you’d think politics in many democratic countries would be similar across the board, but that isn’t the case.

Its all relative though. People can be predisposed one way or another (which I believe is the point being made), but you are limited by the fabric of the society around you. The debate then is how fundamentally conservative (small c) a society is.

[Dunbar]

3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Indeed. Without Christianity, atheism and secularism as we see it in the West does not exist. 

That's like giving an abusive husband the credit for how great the local women's refuge is.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Dunbar

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, David Shepherd said:

Fully agree regarding religion. It really is the root of all evil.  As you say, not the believer's fault. It's religion that is corrupt.

 

I really didn’t want to be drawn into this, but out of interest do you think places where religion is/was either banned or heavily frowned upon by the state (Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Mao’s China, Khmer Rouge Cambodia etc etc) were therefore great places because the root of all evil had been removed? 

[David Shepherd]

5 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I really didn’t want to be drawn into this, but out of interest do you think places where religion is/was either banned or heavily frowned upon by the state (Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Mao’s China, Khmer Rouge Cambodia etc etc) were therefore great places because the root of all evil had been removed? 

They were replaced by either a personality cult around the leader or enforced worship of the state. Defacto religions

Edited March 17, 2023 by David Shepherd

[RigbyLuger]

On 16/03/2023 at 06:29, gingerjon said:

The past tense is the important thing.

From 2020:

"Only five black players have represented England since 2011; in the same period, 12 have been capped by their union counterparts. In the past three years, 16 black players have played for England’s senior men’s football team. “Football are in the communities doing regular work and rugby league isn’t,” Simmons says. “Until you have proper pathways at the bottom, the numbers at the top will never change.”

England's union and football teams play for more games though, meaning the comparison isn't a great one. (Not to defend the lack of diversity etc.)

(Also the same Alex Simmons who had his mate in blackface on the TV show he hosted?)